Pet Peeve: Throwing Knives in Movies and Tee Vee

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Watching Gangs of New York yesterday - it never ceases to amaze me how the good guy (or bad guy) who is so skilled with a throwing knife can save the day (or ruin the good guy's day).

Really? C'mon. This is a horribly bad idea, isn't it, to try to rely upon the extreme skill and luck that it takes (both) to hit someone just right to stick them from a distance in combat unknown to you, and at which you didn't specifically practice the distance, and stick them hard enough and in the right place to do significant damage.

AND, worst of all, you've just thrown away your weapon! In some cases, your last/only weapon.

And, if you're at a distance, you have a real chance to escape and evade or try to get closer to do some slice n dice with your contact weapon which you maintain control of.

Surely, there are no REAL knife fighters or other serious martial artists who rely on throwing knives, are there? It's a parlor trick only, no?

Seems incredibly stupid to me. Hitting stuff is HARD with a SPINNING knife, which can only get a direct hit if facing ONE out of 360 different degrees (or at most, 5-10 out of 360). Seems that even with incredible skill, you've still got *significantly* less than 90% chance to hit someone under real combat conditions, any more than a superficial flesh wound, and I wouldn't rely upon 90%, let alone less than that.

Although admittedly, it looks cool on film.

 

[Carl Levitian]

Skeeter Vaughan and Harry McEvoy were two gentlemen who could pull it off. It was Vaughan who had witnesses that he threw a knife and got a German sentry in WW2 at some incredable disatance.

It can be done, but you have to dedicate your life to practice and even then have the God given talent to develope. Once in a while you just get someone with inhuman reflexs and eye-hand co-ordination. I've been shooting for 50 years, but that doesn't mean I'll ever turn inot a Bill Jordan.

 

[hso]

I've never seen it done. Moving thrower, moving target, moving blade all makes for pretty dynamic problem.

If you're just attempting to distract out of despiration and you happen to get lucky that would be very impressive.

If you dedicate hundreds of hours to practice and you're blessed with exceptional talent you might be able to position yourself to get a solid stick.

Obviously none of us think movies reflect real life very accurately when it comes to exceptional martial feats.

 

[mustang_steve]

After seeing some demonstrations (one involving a knife disabling a moving radio controlled car), I have no doubt that a small amount of throwers could accomplish some of these feats....however the majority would never be able to pull it off.

This is more theatrical suspension of belief, much like the never ending magazine, how a T/C contender is able to kill anything from any distance with a single shot, under any circumstances, etc.

Just take it as a show and have fun with it....well, unless it's appraoching Transporter levels of absurdity...then just avoid that movie.

 

[middy]

It's not extremely difficult (assuming regular practice) to judge the distance and control the rotation of the knife (you choke up on it to make it rotate more slowly). It's done instinctively after many hours of throwing at targets at varying distances up to 10 yards or so.

Still, with a moving target coming toward you or going away a certain measure of luck will be involved.

Realistically, it's not a killing weapon, but it's a good way to distract an opponent and throw them off balance. Whether you hit them with the point or not, they're going to be paying attention to that knife and it's going to hurt. That's when you pull out your other knife. Never throw your last one.

 

[sniper5]

It's a movie. It's fantasy. Somebody dreamed it up, and thought "Wow, I'll bet this would look better on screen if. . ."

I can't stand watching action films any more. They have become orgies of special effects and gore with a shred of plot to hold them together. And there is in most cases not even a token effort to obey the laws of physics or create a semblance of reality or believability. My youngest son feels the same way and is now totally hooked on classic films, B & W and silent era movies for the same reasons-"Dad it's better than 90% of the crap that they put out today." And all they have to do is generate controversy to get you to contribute to the film's bank account by going to see it "just to see how bad it really is". I mostly watch older films, documentaries, or something that got rave reviews at Cannes or Sundance. Academy Award stuff, mmmm not so much.

Sorry, my rant. YMMV

 

[messerist]

Ditto Sniper5! Give me "The Duke" and a bowl of popcorn anyday.

 

[PT1911]

sorry... the oldie stuff is just as bad... ever seen someone shot flying though the air, through a window and out into the middle of the street? How many shots are there in a single action revolver?

I enjoy a good movie... period... true there are quite a few of them nowadays that are irritatingly absurd... if you sift through them, there are some good ones being put out nowadays.

 

[sniper5]

Yup, crap is crap. First of all, I'm a consumer not a marketer. No one in the world has to like what I like. I am trying to get anyone to watch or not watch anything. I am merely expressing my own preferences. I never said ALL old films are good or ALL new films are bad. I generally prefer not to bother seeing newer films involving firearms or medicine-my hobby and my job. I find them generally not believable. I also avoid remakes. I look for films old and new where the plot or a fresh approach to a plot is the main selling point. I find that selling point is less common in newer action films than in old. Of the newer stuff some of the emotional thrillers, romances, and some sci-fi are enjoyable to me. Sci-fi almost by definition is dated.

But I save my real hatred, loathing, and contempt for the stuff my wife likes: CSI, NCIS, Numbers, and Bones (although at least fingers are usually off triggers). Usually have to go watch Military Channel when those are on to purge my soul. But like any great spouse, we have learned to be content to agree to disagree.

 

[jimmyraythomason]

James Coburn's character in "The Magnificent Seven" ,in the classic showdown, pulls and throws his knife killing his adversary before said adversary can clear leather. All because of a bet to prove he COULD do it.

 

[gga357]

Whether killing a dragon single handed with a sword, out drawing 5 bad guys before they can clear leather, or hand to hand against 20 huge guys, it is all the same. I still enjoy movies even though I over analyze them.

 

[TimboKhan]

Not a good way to fight, but it is pretty fun. I taught myself the rudiments of knife throwing when I was a kid, and there is something fun and satisfying about sticking a knife in a tree or whatever.

 

[Sniper X]

Sniper5, I agree completely. And also can't stand watching any film with guns and knives in it since The Matrix, which really screwed it up permantly. Before that there was the Rambo series and other's where throwing knives and impossible shots after a string of easy misses were the norm. Shoot, when I sit and watch any action film these days all i am doing is commenting on how much BS it is that every one cocks their weapon ever time the round a corner or whatever and about how someone can miss 200 easy shots in a over long firefight and then pull off some incredible impossible shot at the end as they are almost passed out of something.

 

[Maelstrom]

Bear in mind when asking yourself whether something can be done.

The answer is usually yes.

Somewhere, there is some human with a completely mutated knife-throwing gene, I've seen a guy hit six steel plates in a blink. I've seen a guy hit a throw asprin with a bow and arrow. That dude with the slingshot was able to make trees fall whichever way he wanted to.

Somewhere, someone can do it.

 

[Sniper X]

True, but most of us mortals can;t do those things. It's like acrobats in Circ, they aren't normal and can do stuff with their body that normal humans can't

 

[bikerdoc]

I dont watch movies much anymore. The books are usually better.

Stupidest throw I ever saw was in "The Green Berets". ( another pet peeve, they are not green berets, that is the cover they wear, the are Special forces. But I digress)

Kowalski has the point and commences to get a scrappin with a VC. Why neither one of them shot I dont know. Anyway Kowalski kills the VC by nailing him on a tree limb. A second VC appears and he thows this huge bowie and nails the VC in the chest.

Since this is NFW I wont recount all the weapon errors.

Also did anyone else notice at the end the sun settting over the ocean.
Wrong.
Last time I checked the sun went down in the west not the east.

 

[messerist]

Oh? You refer to "Mortals" Don't count for those of us who ain't Re: Knife throwing as our respectable Dr. Tad intended this thread to address. i have seen alot of weird doo doo in my years in the Service but I never saw anyone throw a knife like they do in the movies. Witnessed a trooper throw an e-tool right through a lister bag that I had just spent an hour purifying so's we could drink it without contracting Giardia or other tropical nasties. Last thing he threw when Top got aholt of him. At Rendezvous we have hawk and knife throwing but it is at known distances. Some fellers throwing there a pretty good. And they practice a lot! Anyways that's my 2 cents worth.

 

[Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow]

Well, but lookit, this detracts from an otherwise very good movie, in my view. The movie (Gangs of New York) features an outstanding character known as The Butcher (acted superbly by Daniel Day Lewis), and the things he can do with his knives in hand are quite believable - even the things he does with the throwing knives on stage in a performance, as is depicted in the film is believable, as these are practiced things at known distances. He even kills a guy with a thrown hatchet, which is somewhat believable since it's a scene where he could have planned his spot to stand in, relative to the victim beforehand, and it's a close distance (only one spin of the axe). But then it just makes for a stupid scene when the knife is thrown impromptu in the blink of an eye at the good guy (Leo DiCaprio), for an easy direct stick, which was described by the Butcher as an intential wounding (intentionally not meant to kill).

 

[PandaBearBG]

Well I don't know Dr. Tad, Gangs of New York was a great movie, dirty, gritty, realisticly blunt and ugly face forward. If you think back in those days, immigrants probably did not have access to firearms as we do today, and probably not alot of civilian firearms either. So the obvious point they were making was that knife culture was the predominant thing whether is was self defense, gangs, carry, etc. So assuming that knives were the big and only thing, it stands to chance that many individuals became very proficent and quick with them. We see the rare knife expert do some pretty amazing feats now a days, but rarely considering knife culture is not as big as it was. Just think about today in our very predominate gun community, alot of people are very good and even more are better and faster than normal. The average guy can learn how to shoot 1000 yards with lots of practice, speed shooting or even 3 gun matchs and IDPA marksmen can seem inhumanly fast and accurate to alot of people, so I say it stands to chance that the "Butcher" was a blade guru. I mean he was the boss.

 

[messerist]

Pandabear brings up some very good points. We don't rely on knives for our only means of self defense. I suppose that when people were forced by circumstances such as not having any other means of self defense and a hostile and alien environment, they would become pretty adept at using tools that we today would find astonishing. Take for example a lot of forum contributors talk of when they were young having to rely on their adeptness with a .22 to help fill the larder at home. Not many kids today are forced by circumstances to be accomplished rabbit hunters. OK, I've babbled enough. I had minor surgery this morning and the pain medication they gave me is loosening my tongue. You guys make this lying still very bearable. I love reading your wit and wisdom. Thanks

 

[bikerdoc]

Get better quick, Messerist

 

[messerist]

Bikerdoc! Where you been? What has happened to Mokwepa? Hope he's not lion poop. I have some work on the table and hope to get back to it this weekend. Thanks for your concern

 

[bikerdoc]

Messerist, said,

I have some work on the table and hope to get back to it this weekend.

So do I, Have 5 started,one almost done. None of which are thowing knives. (wink)

 

[JShirley]

Let's keep the focus where it's supposed to be here, on the tool, NOT on movies.

I have only known two people who were fairly reliably dangerous with thrown bladed weapons. One has been been featured on the cover of numerous Black Belt Magazines, and the other is on staff here (but I'm certain he's no longer that capable).

The time it takes to become reliably dangerous with a throwing knife is better served in getting better with almost anything else. I think it's a great idea to be versatile with your tools, but why (for instance) practice using a handgun as an impact device when you still have a 3 second presentation time from concealment? Priorities.

John

 

[Claymore1500]

Seems incredibly stupid to me. Hitting stuff is HARD with a SPINNING knife, which can only get a direct hit if facing ONE out of 360 different degrees (or at most, 5-10 out of 360).

Just to clear things up a bit, A properly thrown knife does not spin into the target, It should do 1 flip, 180 degrees, and then fly like a short spear.

My "Kabar combat knife" will stick in just about anything I throw it at, (at least out to about 20 feet, the farthest I have tried, I also have several other hunting knives that perform well, along with a jap. bayonet that hits about 60% of the time.