Phoenix C-Store at night.

[armoredman]

Ledge, FYI, AZ has a Defensive Display law - he was within guidelines, not brandishing.

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by armoredman: Ledge, FYI, AZ has a Defensive Display law

True.

- he was within guidelines, not brandishing.

I presume that that was intended to mean that the OP and his friend were justified in the defensive display of a weapon and did not commit aggravated assault.

I don't think we know enough of the details to conclude that from what has been reported. Two individuals got out of their car, which was legal, shouted some obscenities, and spoke about going to get a weapon, implying a threat about something that would happen in the future.

From what that has been reported would one conclude with any confidence that either person had a basis for a reasonable belief that physical force was immediately necessary to protect himself against the use or attempted use of unlawful physical force or deadly physical force?

Had this gone to trial, the devil would have been in the details--distances, specific actions, etc.; a lot would have depended upon the testimony of the OP, which would have been subject to cross examination; the failure to call the police would not help; and, very importantly, the testimony of a number of unsympathetic witnesses, whether true or not, could have been damaging.

The OP and his friend were in something of a fix, in that the first rule of self defense, which is to avoid likely danger spots, could not be followed.

So, what to do?

First, call the police if the situation is serious enough to warrant the defensive display of a weapon.

Second, I think SSN Vet provided some good suggestions: call for a tow truck, or arrange to leave the truck until daylight. Working under a truck in a service station in a bad area of town after 10:00 PM does not seem to be the safest strategy.

 

[scaatylobo]

Doing what is right is NOT the safest thing,that is one reason to CCW.

I am one to avoid confrontation as that is THE best way to win with no shots fired.

But that does not mean I would leave a frind in need and tell him to leave his vehicle to strippers overnight,as that part of town is not safe.

I dont actually have a yellow stripe down my back,and NO this is not to prove anything to anyone.

Just we all have a RIGHT to be unmolested going about our LEGAL lives.

I say the OP did fairly well,as a armchair QB on this one [ I was not there ] I call "good outcome".

 

[Hoppes Love Potion]

someone else opines that it was a "good strategy, legal or not", which is highly contradictory.

Contradictory or not, quite often the law does not allow us a reasonable response. If you were on a lonely highway in your Corvette, and some drunk locals in an old truck were waving a shotgun at you, it might be prudent to accelerate to a speed where the truck and the shotgun could not follow, even though you might exceed the legal limit. You are risking a ticket and possibly jail, but the alternative is to stick around and get shotgunned by crazies.

In the OP's story, the carry weapons were the ace in the hole. The OP decided it was the perfect time to show the ace, legalities be damned.

 

[fallout mike]

Anytime someone asks u if u wanna get smoked and u get out of the situation with no guns drawn , I'm gonna say someone did something right.

 

[twofifty]

Quote:
"Just we all have a RIGHT to be unmolested going about our LEGAL lives."

I agree with the above, and I think that this belief is what drove the OP and his buddy to handle the situation as they did.

It was their skillful and balanced use of words and body language that won the day. They were confident in their ability to 'read' the punks' needs and to apply urban diplomacy to prevent escalation.

Tactics lesson: instinctual diplomacy should have a place in one's urban toolbox.

 

[AZ Lawman]

Okay...back from Michigan. How the heck is everyone?

 

[Buck Snort]

Lee Lapin wrote: "Who called the local cops and reported these characters, and at what point? If not, why not?"

Maybe "no harm no foul"? Maybe it goes without saying that trio was not going to call the cops and if either party had done so it would've been "we said they said". Maybe because just gitt'n outta Dodge is sometimes the best policy?

 

[Kleanbore]

Posted by Buck Snort: Maybe it goes without saying that trio was not going to call the cops and if either party had done so it would've been "we said they said". Maybe because just gitt'n outta Dodge is sometimes the best policy?

One could take that risk, but I wouldn't. If they want the last laugh, they may know how to get it.

And, suppose a third party called it in? Maybe someone with windows up and speakers on, perhaps with greater affinity with and sympathy for the street crowd than the truck guys?

 

[kayak-man]

AZ, it sounds like you and Dave did a pretty good job of keeping your heads. The way I see it, there is no one "right way" to handle these situations, because each situation and the individuals involved are different.

You're right about the idea of not coming across as a victim. I'm a firm believer in the idea that predators will tend to stay away from a meal that isn't worth it.

Honestly, I have no idea what I would have done in your situation, but I don't think I would have shown my gun, at least not very overtly. I'm not suggesting that you did anything wrong, just that I might do it differently. I probably would have found some excuse to remove my jacket, revealing the gun, but more in an offhand way.

As far as the comments about having the truck towed and just waiting until morning, sometimes that kind of thing just doesn't occur to a man. I can't begin to count the number of times I've screwed something up (not that you screwed up) and when asked why I didn't just___________, said "I didn't think of that."

It sounds like you identified the other car as a potential threat pretty quickly, and you said the trucks weren't blocking the air. Did you have any sort of back up plan if they had gotten between you and the pump?

Also, way to be a good friend and help your buddy out!

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson

 

[Beaux Nehr]

The way I see it, there is no one "right way" to handle these situations, because each situation and the individuals involved are different.

Getting out unscathed sure seems like the right way to me