Pick your "experts" Carefully!

IWAC

IWAC

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Reading today's print and Internet material and watching You tube, there seems to be a real love affair with all things "tactical" and/or extreme lightweight, high capacity, etc. Seems like most comes from Marketing Department claims of "NEW!, IMPROVED! STATE of the ART! (whatever that may be.) Absolutely there have been improvements in weapons, ammunition and optics, But much of the "old technology"....38 Spl, 357 magnum, 44 Special, 44 Magnum ("Do you feel lucky, Punk?" and .45 ACP, 30-30, 30-06, and .22 LONG RIFLE keep chugging along, doing what they have done for Decades...very well!
There is some talk denigrating the work of Marshall and Sanow, which, with Dr. Fackler and other earlier experimenters...prompted ammunition manufacturers to overcome ennui and improve their offerings, and continue with some "standard" loadings that have proven themselves time and again. "Old stuff", like the .45 Long Colt and others have been suddenly "discovered" to be pretty useful. I am not against "new technology" once the hollering and dust of the Ad Departments has faded, and real world experience is available. But I did and still enjoy the writings of Skeeter, Jack O'connor, Jim Carmichael and Jeff Cooper to name only a few. I may not agree with all they say, and they were men of their times, but offer information which is still useful. I wonder if, in a Decade or three if many of the modern gurus' information will still be helping shooters and reloaders?
 
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IWAC said:
Reading today's print and Internet material and watching You tube, there seems to have be a real love affair with all things "tactical" and/or extreme lightweight, high capacity, etc. Seems like most comes from Marketing Department claims of "NEW!, IMPROVED! STATE of the ART! (whatever that may be.) Absolutely there have been improvements in weapons, ammunition and optics, But much of the "old technology"....38 Spl, 357 magnum, 44 Special, 44 Magnum ("Do you feel lucky, Punk?" and .45 ACP, 30-30, 30-06, and .22 LONG RIFLE keep chugging along, doing what they have done for Decades...very well!
There is some talk denigrating the work of Marshall and Sanow, which, with Dr. Fackler and other earlier experimenters...prompted ammunition manufacturers to overcome ennui and improve their offerings, and continue with some "standard" loadings that have proven themselves time and again. "Old stuff", like the .45 Long Colt and others have been suddenly "discovered" to be pretty useful. I am not against "new technology" once the hollering and dust of the Ad Departments has faded, and real world experience is available. But I did and still enjoy the writings of Skeeter, Jack O'connor, Jim Carmichael and Jeff Cooper to name only a few. I may not agree with all they say, and they were men of their times, but offer information which is still useful. I wonder if, in a Decade or three if many of the modern gurus' information will still be helping shooters and reloaders?
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I think Paul Harells work will remain respected long after he is gone. Ian and Forgotten weapons is pretty timeless for educational purposes on different firearms. You are right though almost none of them impress me and much of it is reckless buffonary along with a whole lot of nonsense talk with people trying to sell themselves as being tactical and exciting. They even add all sorts of silly music and trick editing. I just watch old films for that. If I see one more idiot rolling around on the ground shooting like Mel Gibson to techno music while trying to portray realism and claim to be an "expert" Im going to get sick. Whole lot of "influencers" focused on showing off more than actually giving a solid review and analysis of the firearm.

There are some good ones still out there though with mature content thats educational. They dont get promoted much but they are their if you look around. I tend to search for content based on model of firearm over personality.

Biggest thing if you have shooting buddies is choosing them wisely. I grew up shooting with all old timers so there was no screwing around when it came to firearms. If I would have started running and gunning with a shot timer they would have cursed me out hard before taking my firearms away and telling me to go play with my GI Joes. Oh and rapid fire man sized targets at 15 yards thinking you were accurate was a joke LOL. The Firearms industry has gotten very strange and maturity has declined heavily.

Hard for people to understand the psycological stuff but most of the crazy youtube stuff is just programming when it comes to firearms. Lots of shooting man targets and rapid firing with none of the destruction and death that happens when such an incident occurs. Its meant to desensitize and weaponize the populace against each other. Then they show endless videos of attacks and people becoming violent to further the programing. Military and LE training has been useing this type of programing forever to weaponize people and encourage division in the populace. Our "overloards" are not stupid. Youtube is just a tool they use to get it in the mainstream. The Youtube "influencers" help them to sell it to those who cant see through it for the programing it actually is.

I am my sons "instructer" when it comes to firearms and safety so I have to explain this youtube firearms programming stuff to him a lot. He sees it now. I wouldnt let the majority of any youtube influencers "experts" within 10 feet of them in an actual range environment let alone what to do in Crisis situation. A whole lot of these "tactical" high speed trainers are goig to end up getting sued before its over. Right now its all about setting up the stages/scenarios for that.
 
I don't believe it's a conspiracy or anything. But alot of this is what you get when you have a whole generation of people exposed to action movies and fast scenes.
Most of firearms application now days is self defense oriented, so of course there's going to be a big focus on stuff like that.

Alot of them are over dramatic for me though so I don't watch too often. But there are lots of trusted people out there who do have valuable information.
 
What bugs me as much as anything is watching a Youtube analysis and spending 10 minutes getting about 30 seconds of information.
I hardly ever bother these days as separating the wheat from the chaff is too irritating as well as error prone.
I guess I'm getting old; there are very few people I trust anymore.
 
Heir Kommt Die Sonne said:
I don't believe it's a conspiracy or anything. But alot of this is what you get when you have a whole generation of people exposed to action movies and fast scenes.
Most of firearms application now days is self defense oriented, so of course there's going to be a big focus on stuff like that.

Alot of them are over dramatic for me though so I don't watch too often. But there are lots of trusted people out there who do have valuable information.
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Sure. Action Movies have been around since well before I was a kid though. If everyone understood the level of protocols in the film industry when it comes to firearms on screen and making sure nobody gets hurt we would be far better off though. Problem is people see a film and subconsciously believe a scenario meant to entertain is real life. Video games have made it much, much worse as its yet another form of programming. All that "drama" youtubers like to use are just another tool for that.

In the real world the last thing you want around firearms is drama and adrenaline. A good trainer or instructor does his best to zero that effect out as much as possible while not trying to turn you into a cold machine. Its more about concentration and awareness than rapid fire, excitement, or even fear. Its also ridiculous to try and pretend its some sort of "sport". Target or Skeet shooting sure but a lot of the influencer industry is trying to promote this notion that defensive/offensive tactical shooting is an actual sport. Whatever gets people more "clients or clicks" I guess though.

Conspiracy? LOL Well kinda I guess. Conspiracies are most often hidden though where as this is right in the open. Its more like a small aspect of a much larger system but going into detail trying to explain that kind of thing here will likely just start a whole lot of confusion so I will leave it off open threads.

Best instructors/teachers I was around growing up were most often old timer gunsmiths because they had a true respect for firearms and what they could do if used improperly. They are all long gone now but they would likely be disgusted by the mentality a lot of these people promote on youtube. Theres a heck of a lot of "offensive" being promoted hidden under the guise of "defensive" and the bulk of them never address that.

People are going do chose their own paths though even if they have been programmed. Free Will and all. Ive seen a few youtube lawyers talk about this kind of think here and there so that might be good for people to check out more. Also videos on how to control impulse and emotion under stress along with different ways to de-escalate and distract someone who has gone off the rails. LE needs a whole lot more of that these days because what I typically see is extremely discouraging. As a Homeschool Family we teach our kids to stay away from both the reckless types and also LEOs. Both sides have gone extremely downhill since I was a child and the best way to avoid conflict is to ... avoid conflict.
 
ddc said:
What bugs me as much as anything is watching a Youtube analysis and spending 10 minutes getting about 30 seconds of information.
I hardly ever bother these days as separating the wheat from the chaff is too irritating as well as error prone.
I guess I'm getting old; there are very few people I trust anymore.
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If you are a fan of firearms in general give Forgotten Weapons a try. Ian (the host) is always putting out interesting content. Even his Q&A sessions are good. I dont watch a ton of youtube but everything Ive seen from him has been pretty good. Im not sure I would trust "him" but his content actually checks out so in that aspect he does good work. I would have to know the guy personally to trust him and that doesnt interest me. I might have seen 80% of his work and its always been solid. Not exciting or action oriented but educational.
 
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starling said:
Best instructors/teachers I was around growing up were most often old timer gunsmiths because they had a true respect for firearms and what they could do if used improperly. They are all long gone now but they would likely be disgusted by the mentality a lot of these people promote on youtube.
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And I can see this. My favorite videos are just videos of people chilling, working their equipment and telling stories and details about what they're showing. Not just cars, even other subjects as well.
But videos of just constant shooting and barely any info then I concur with DDC. We can see it's a cool gun, you like cool gun, you shoot with it, whats the point? But a video of someone with said firearm, showing us how to dissemble it, about where it came from, that I can do. Yes I like Ian alot.

As for tactical sports, yea it can be argued its conditioning people to a fight first approach to altercations. Again, I understand the vital role self defense skills play. If you have deadly equipment, at least train with it and become familiar with it before relying on it to protect your life.
 
Heir Kommt Die Sonne said:
And I can see this. My favorite videos are just videos of people chilling, working their equipment and telling stories and details about what they're showing. Not just cars, even other subjects as well.
But videos of just constant shooting and barely any info then I concur with DDC. We can see it's a cool gun, you like cool gun, you shoot with it, whats the point? But a video of someone with said firearm, showing us how to dissemble it, about where it came from, that I can do. Yes I like Ian alot.

As for tactical sports, yea it can be argued its conditioning people to a fight first approach to altercations. Again, I understand the vital role self defense skills play. If you have deadly equipment, at least train with it and become familiar with it before relying on it to protect your life.
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Yes Ian and forgotten weapons is one of the stand out which is why I recommend him to hard core firearms enthusiasts. The average gun owner or occasional shooter will likely find him boring. Paul Harrel is another because he stays practical and realistic in terms of what is effective and what isnt regardless of hypes and fads. Im sure there are a few others out there that I dont know about but they are probably not consistently good. Military Arms Channel has done a few good videos but most of what Ive seen are not that informative. He had a pretty good video on the BRNO 7.5fk cartridge and pistol which is worth checking out. If you like Glocks or modern striker fired design there is a guy named Johnny Glocks that is very good in terms of explaining the idiosyncrasies of that design.

I would say Forgotten Weapons is my favorite though. I have not watched Ian in a while because I can only take so much youtube LOL. When I get in a run though I tend to catch up while having my coffee in the morning. My youngest son watches it with me sometimes when he likes one of the firearms Ian covers. I dont watch Ian's range videos when he is doing actual shooting because he can act a little silly from adrenalin and I discourage that pretty heavily. Firearms and range time isnt really something I clown around with. One slip up and horrendous things can easily happen. Its very easy to be a little "To Casual" with firearms. Always must make it a priority to respect firearms as a weapon designed around causing destruction or death. Most modern gun culture treats them like toys. I never let my children have toy guns and the first time they ever fired a pistol I had them do it without hearing protection the 1st round so they understood its not something you take lightly. My kids love firearms but there is no issues of them snooping around the house to screw around with firearms as they understood very early they are not something to be played with. Sometimes they watch some of these crazy youtubers and point out all their mistakes in shooting fundamentals and overall safety.

I probably sound OCD to many here but I was just taught firearms fundamentals correctly from a very early age and by the time I was in middle school had my own handguns, rifles, ammo etc. in my bedroom (paper route money) so it is pretty bizarre for me to see where the culture has gone in terms of firearms handling and ownership.
 
IWAC said:
But much of the "old technology"....38 Spl, 357 magnum, 44 Special, 44 Magnum keep chugging along, doing what they have done for Decades...very well
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Yes, there are bullets in 38 special and 357 Mag that perform well; the issue is not bullet performance, rather capacity deficiency.
There are bullets in 9mm and 357 Sig that perform as well as those revolver calibers but offer 2x the capacity :).

Rather than look at the gel results for specific loads, a few examples comparing power / KE.
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/revolver-ballistics-test/
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/
https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/357-sig-gel-test/
2'' Snub revolver is similar in size to a 9mm Sig 365
2'' 38 Special 158 +P LSWCHP - 794 fps 221# KE - (Has more KE than the next load but performs poorly, doesn't expand)
2'' 38 special 130 HST Micro - 824 fps - 196# KE
9mm 124 +P HST - 1,168 fps - 376# KE - 9mm is clearly more "powerful" and offers 11 rounds versus 5

4'' revolver is similar in size to a Glock 31
4'' 357 Mag revolver Remington 125 SJHP - 1,473 fps - 602# KE - Yes, this is a whopping 7% more "powerful".
357 Sig Winchester PDX1 125 - 1,423 fps - 562# KE - Slightly less power in exchange for a significant double or more capacity 16 rounds versus 6-8

Some might be content with "old technology" revolver calibers and low capacity, but I am not one of those people.
I have seen multiple videos where a single attacker takes 5 hits and is not quickly incapacitated.
No reason to limit myself to only 5-8 rounds when 11-16 rounds is an option in a similar size package.

I had all three Marshall and Sanow books, the 357 Remington 125 SJHP load I picked was a top performer in "one shot stops🙄".
The problem with "one shot stops" is it excludes all the incidents where more than one hit was required.
Anyway, in the Marshall and Sanow books, 9mm +P had much better "one shot sop" percentages than 38 Special +P
 
As for "experts" and sources of information like YouTube, coming from an academic background, I have learned to a lot from such people and places. Why? I have learned to tell garbage from gold which is about the same process as in real world research. If you don't have patience and understanding, it won't be of much help.

One of the things I like about the non-traditional sorts of experts as you often find on YouTube is that they often ask questions the experts won't ask because the experts already "know" the answers, but are just victims of their own knowledge. Some of the questions are truly ridiculous. Some are truly insightful and interesting.

The same goes for searching for information on places like YouTube. It is sort of akin to using the old Yellow Pages for you old timers. It has been my experience that folks that weren't good at finding odd businesses in the Yellow Pages typically aren't very good at finding information from places like YouTube.

OMG, there is work denigrating M&S and even F on YouTube???!!!
I certainly would hope that there is some revisionism going on given that the work of M&S and F are all quite data. With that said, if YouTube is bad because "experts" there disagree with old data and methods for various reasons, then you don't want to be on the High Road.

There is also good information in a lot of the old stuff despite being out of date and surprisingly, despite being incorrect in many cases. However, it is important to remember that just because it was said by one of the 'experts' of the days of old doesn't mean it is correct now or that it was even correct back then.
 
Manufacturers are driven by sales of "new and improved", content creators are only too happy to help them out. A dozen short action AR calibers may be more than we really need, we’re barreling towards 2 dozen!

If you bought in on 6.5 Grendel or 6.8 SPC you’re now seeing none of that in shelves in favor if cartridges optimized for 1k yards plus- in a short action platform most will use at 300 or less.

Good luck finding 6 ARC, anything Ham’r, legend, BM, etc in 5 years

The PRC rifle cartridges, anything with Nosler, Western, in the name, all likely headed to reloader only, brass only available used or by fireforming/trimming obsolete status.
 
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I value my personal experiences as well as those of a variety of close friends I've been privileged to shoot, compete and hunt with over the past sixty or more years. Some of them were much older than i and taught me much. Nearing 80 now there isn't much in the conventional realm of shooting I haven't tried or observed. Ill never call myself an expert in any realm, but I've known some who were.
Shooting at ten, reloading at twelve, hunting since eleven, competing in bullseye, trap, skeet, high power, muzzle loading rifle, pistol, shotgun, building muzzle loaders, making tools, moulds, chokes, whatever, lucky enough to have been a machinist, among other things.
Again, not an expert but been around enough to detect the b.s. prevalent in much of the youtube, print and internet content.
I followed Nonte (knew him personally, interesting guy in many ways), Skelton, Steindler (knew him also) Keith, Askins, Jordan, Starr, Kimble, and Bogardus. Cooper, as philosopher. Many others who wrote from deep experience in the fifties, sixties, seventies and on.
Again, a jack of many trades, master of few. I'm sure many are more well versed than I in any area but I cringe reading some of the drivel that passes for authority today.
Handloader, and Rifle, are two best magazibes today (within limits). Wish Precision Shooting was still going.
I know that I can do anything I need to do in my limited time and ability these days with about a half dozen guns. '06, 222 or 223, 22, 357. 9. 44/45, 12 ga will be fine. If I lived elsewhere, that would be different.
This had been an enjoyable thread and a trip back down shooting memory lane while I try to adapt to my new knee.
 
gwpercle said:
You Tube is the last place in the world I will look for Experts .
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Ah! Someone said it before I did...

(I admit I viewed some YT videos to see if there was an easier way to change out a headlight in one of my vehicles; that's two hours of my life I will never get back.)

It's tragic that we have raised a couple generations who believe in "content creators" and "influencers."

Double Naught Spy said:
I have learned to tell garbage from gold which is about the same process as in real world research. If you don't have patience and understanding, it won't be of much help.
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It's not about patience and understanding. Most of us simply don't have the time to spend in front of our computers or cell phones. And some of us prefer to live in reality as opposed to virtual reality, with in-person interactions with persons with whom we can actually develop and maintain relationships. Not anonymous "experts" with dubious credentials that are trying to make money with internet videos.

Yes, I'm just another old curmudgeon.
 
I thought of another one thats not to bad. Hes not incredibly detailed but hes mature, calm. JustinOpinion is his channel. Nothing earth shattering in terms of content just decent reviews on pistols. I guess he is a little like Hickok45 without the flare.
 

Pick your "experts" Carefully!​

Click to expand...

....seems everyone on the internet is an expert at something. If not an expert on firearms, an expert on defining what a firearm expert is.

The "Web" is a wonderful source of information. At first you could pretty well trust it as much as an ole fashioned encyclopedia. Not so much anymore. Now it is more opinion than fact. More of a platform to push your agenda, to brag about what you have/bought/done and to watch young ladies shaking it on Tik-Tok. Last few years it has been the main source of all kinds of conspiracy theories and where politicians attempt to spread their lies. Apparently, if you say it enough on the internet, it becomes Gospel.

Still a great source to glean information. Most manufacturers don't even give you an instruction manual with their product anymore....only a link to find it on the web. Makes so you need an internet connection to do anything these days. If one knows how to wade thru the crap and weed out the lies and misinformation, it is still a good thing. If you can't do that, you need to walk away. Still, I believe there are folks that thrive on these false conspiracy theories and love the drama that comes with them. Don't matter how far fetched it is, the link still has to go on their Facebook feed. God forbid if everyone else doesn't fall for it too.........:what:
 
I don't do you tube except for the rare changing a part on the truck video or tractor. Many folks today are taken in by marketing and yes the action movies. Marketing and a good rep sells things these days. The Tisas rep hanging around the 1911 Forum is a prime example. That's his job and he gets involved. I haven't figured out how the the tactical crowd is going to fit in with the less recoil crowd. Maybe 30 rounds of .22 and a couple of spare mags? As far as old school goes .45, 9mm, .308 and the 06 families has been taking care of business for over 100 years. I see no reason to jump ship into the new and approved. Of course that's why there are choices. To each his own and ymmv.
 
Old Dog said:
It's tragic that we have raised a couple generations who believe in "content creators" and "influencers."
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....and equally tragic that the couple of generations previous believed everything they read in advertiser driven magazines by content creators and influencers. The interwebs are just an extension of an earlier technology.
 
There are good and bad on youtube no matter how you define "good" or "bad".

To toss the baby out with the bath water is shortsighted at best.

I have learned a thing or two from people on there, and I have learned a thing or two about some people on there as well. With my interests falling into the "old" most of those guys don't sport the required Delta beard and that entire act that goes along with it.
 
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