Boston is losing it's mind..bullet control

Status
Not open for further replies.

depicts

Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2005
Messages
329
This appeared in this mornings Boston Globe. I don't think I have to say anything

Bill

Home > News > Local

City seeks safeguards on sale of bullets
Tracking technology is among possibilities
By Suzanne Smalley, Globe Staff | February 13, 2006

With firearm violence in Boston continuing to surge, police and city officials are looking for new anticrime tools, potentially including limiting ammunition sales, recording who buys ammunition, and using a new technology that transfers a gun's serial number onto a bullet's shell casing any time the gun is fired, said two officials who know about the plans.

Breaking News Alerts Police Department and city officials offered few details publicly, but in his weekly column on the city's website, Mayor Thomas M. Menino discusses his plans, saying his recently formed strategic crime council is ''examining everything from ammunition sales regulation and bullet micro-stamping to stricter sentencing for illegal possession and trafficking."

''We want to tighten up how people can get ammunition," Police Superintendent Robert Dunford said. ''We're seeing loose rounds, a mix of ammunition. That might be a point of attack for us. . . . When you get the gun with ammunition and you fire it off, then you need to resupply. . . . That can be tough."

Dunford said Menino's office is working on proposed legislation to regulate ammunition. A spokesman for Menino declined to comment on the specifics of any legislation, saying only, ''Mayor Menino has made the message clear. He has a tremendous sense of urgency around devising both policy alternatives and new legislation that could make Boston a safer city."

The officials with knowledge of the plans, who declined to be named because the City Hall review is just beginning, said the city will focus on tightening the law.

Currently, vendors are not required to record who buys ammunition, and buyers can purchase as much as they want, said Sergeant Detective Ray Mosher, who supervises the Boston Police Licensing unit, which regulates ammunition sales in the city. Mosher also said the current law allows buyers with a license for one type of gun to buy ammunition for any type of gun.

The number of shootings in which people were wounded or killed rose 28 percent last year over 2004. Police rolled out several programs to try to reverse that spike in gun violence, but after two shooting deaths Friday, there were six this year, compared with four at the same time last year. There have been 36 nonfatal shootings this year compared with 17 this time last year.

Police and city officials acknowledge that criminals could buy ammunition on the black market and out of state, but they say they have noticed an apparent shortage of ammunition on the streets. They also say that youths, who are both suspects and victims in many shootings, might be deterred if ammunition is more difficult to get.

The officials said Menino's interest in the new bullet-tracking technology, known as microstamping, is exploratory.

Still, the city is interested in the technology's ability to allow investigators to tie shell casings to gun owners. Under current ballistics technology, detectives must recover a weapon to link an owner to a crime scene or must compare markings on shell casings with bullets fired from guns recovered later.

''Microstamping is the most elegant solution to this problem," said Joshua Horwitz, the executive director of the nonprofit gun control advocacy group Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence.

Horwitz said two members of Congress are preparing legislation that would require gun manufacturers to begin outfitting weapons with microstamping technology.

One of the most interesting features of microstamping technology is the ability it gives police to tap easily into existing databases, Horwitz said. In Massachusetts, buyers must list their name and the serial number of the weapon they're purchasing.

''It's using what's set up now," said Horwitz, who spoke at a US Conference of Mayors anticrime meeting attended by Menino last month. ''There's no extra administrative responsibilities."

Horwitz said microstamping legislation recently passed one house of the California Legislature.

Griffin Dix, whose 15-year-old son was killed in an unintentional shooting and who now runs the California chapters of the Million Mom March, a group that fights for tougher gun laws, said he is hopeful the California Legislature will pass the microstamping bill, which he said would require the technology for all semi-automatic handguns sold there by 2009.

About 30 police chiefs have also lobbied legislators in support of the bill, Dix said. Handguns are used in about 60 percent of the average of 2,400 annual homicides in California, and no arrest is made in 45 percent of them because police don't have enough evidence, Dix said.

''If people realize that they are likely to be found out, who bought that gun, then they're less likely to commit a crime," Dix said. ''Also, this will have an effect on reducing gun trafficking. . . . With straw purchasers knowing that this gun can be traced right back to them . . . they're less likely to buy these guns and give them to traffickers."

But Andrew Arulanandam, a spokesman for the National Rifle Association, a gun rights advocacy group, said criminals will always find ways around systems such as microstamping.

''Schemes such as this do not work for a very simple reason: Criminals by definition don't follow the law," Arulanandam said. ''Therefore, the only universe of people who are affected by this are law-abiding. A criminal intent on committing a heinous crime is not going to be deterred by such laws."

But Menino appears to be listening to groups on the other side of the issue.

Peter Hamm, communications director for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, said Menino's office asked the gun control advocacy organization in November for advice on how to combat firearm violence. He said the Brady Campaign advised City Hall not only on the availability of microstamping technology, but also on the importance of partnering with other urban mayors, as Menino has recently done with New York Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg.

''If there are ideas on the table that could increase closure rate of gun crime investigations by 10 or 15 or 20 percent, they're worth doing because there are real victims here," Hamm said.

''We felt like the city's interest in this and the mayor's interest in this is strikingly real because of the outreach they've made to us."

Suzanne Smalley can be reached at [email protected]

© Copyright 2006 Globe Newspaper Company.


:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
 
i saw this earlier and was yelling at the tv i guess now is a good time to get into hand loading.
 
They JUST don't get it, do they ?? They can do all of these things and it will only affect the law abiding citizen. They need to relax their carry permit rules and let anybody carry who legally can. Maybe THEN, crime would go down.
 
Madness! Of course, we all realize that when they pass this law and the criminals continue to kill people they will blame neighboring NH, VT and ME for their 'lax' gun control laws flooding the market with illegal ammunition!
 
And anyone can see that all you have to do is pass a law and the criminals will have no choice but to trade their old weapons in for those with the new technology.

Ooooh, they could make another law that would make it illegal to use an old-technology gun to commit a crime.:cuss:

There, I think that covers all the bases.

That's a good day's work, folks....congrats to all.

Bryan
 
''We want to tighten up how people can get ammunition," Police Superintendent Robert Dunford said. ''We're seeing loose rounds, a mix of ammunition. That might be a point of attack for us. . . . When you get the gun with ammunition and you fire it off, then you need to resupply. . . . That can be tough."
Generally, you can get ammo off the bodies of your gun toting enemies.

Pilgrim
 
Only in video games. Usually the bad guys have .22's or .25 ACP or something silly that you wouldn't be able to run through your piece anyway.

(You'd have to check your state regs on looting corpses.)

As an aside, I wonder just what sort of effect it would have on your brass if you have one of those guns that stamps its serial onto the casing and you reload a lot. That would potentially weaken the brass over time, no? Chalk up another point against that idea.

That strikes me as a pretty dumb COA in the first place. Say you're a law abiding citizen who has to shoot somebody in self defense. You'd be reporting the incident to the cops anyway, no?

Say you're a criminal with an illegal gun. Would it be that hard to pick up your brass? Placing your confidence in solving a crime through stamped casings sounds pretty complacent to me. What if some punk with an axe to grind picks up one of your casings off the range, caps somebody, and leaves your brass at the scene?

Forensics would be able to figure it out easily, but with such a Big Brother scheme in place how much cajoling would it take to get them to bother?
 
Going after guns hasn't worked, so the leftist figure they go after ammunition.

Handloading is starting to sound like a great idea... until they make that illegal too. :uhoh:
 
No surprise here and nothing new. We've heard this before. It seems the new tact of the antis is trying to control ammo. California's proposals of a $0.50 a round ammo tax. Stamping brass. Limits on amounts of ammo that can be sold or owned. Requiring ID and keeping records of ammo sales. All these have either been done or proposed. It is just another way to harrass gun owners and make the shooting sports (and keeping guns for self defense) more difficult, as well as to get people used to the idea of controls until all guns and ammo is illegal (incrementalism).

What if some punk with an axe to grind picks up one of your casings off the range, caps somebody, and leaves your brass at the scene?]
Hate to tell you, it wouldn't take someone with "an axe to grind" or a grudge. It would more likely be a total stranger trying to put the heat on someone else and away from him. Using you as a decoy essentially, and causing you all kinds of headaches in the process.
 
Okay, first Mayor Menino claimed that New Hampshire, Vermont, and Maine were at fault for Boston's murder rate because they had lax gun laws. Now, he suggests locking down ammunition supplies, when ammo can be purchased in and imported from other states far more easily than guns can? :confused:

I'd be very tempted to accept microstamped Massachusetts .45ACP empty brass, reload it, and sell it to other Mass residents up here on the other side of the border, for a nominal fee - let's hear it for willful creation of black markets!!
 
Microstamping is the latest wet dream for anti-RKBA types. No more relationship to reality than ballistic fingerprinting or personalized firearms (a la NJ).

Actually control over ammo has always been on the back burner. It just recently moved to the front burner when it was evident gun control is a loser.

Another desperate attempt at gun control and is just as likely to fail nationally. Might be imposed in Mass along with predictable consequences.
 
The whole microstamping process will work great for people with wheel guns. :rolleyes:
 
But it works so well...

Let the powers that be in Mass. come down here to NJ and see for themselves...lol...Here we have to have a firearm ID card to buy a PELLET gun for crying out loud, not to mention show that AND your drivers license if you want ANY caliber ammo that could be used in a handgun...what a riot! Note that shotgun and rifle ammo is exempt from all this, which amuses me to no end. (... Like a sawed-off 12 Ga. loaded with buckshot ain't among the most dangerous things on the planet, if not the most dangerous... )
Meanwhile those with a criminal mind-set will just continue to get it on the street or get someone to make a straw purchase for them or get their ammo over in Pa., where you can still buy whatever you like in whatever quantity, simply by asking for it and being able to pay the retail price. Oh yeah, it just works SO well, trying to limit availability...they should try spending even half their time in actually apprehending the criminal element out there, instead of causing more hassle to the law abiding!
 
But it works so well...

Let the powers that be in Mass. come down here to NJ and see for themselves...lol...Here we have to have a firearm ID card to buy a PELLET gun for crying out loud, not to mention show that AND your drivers license if you want ANY caliber ammo that could be used in a handgun...what a riot! Note that shotgun and rifle ammo is exempt from all this, which amuses me to no end. (... Like a sawed-off 12 Ga. loaded with buckshot ain't among the most dangerous things on the planet, if not the most dangerous... )
Meanwhile those with a criminal mind-set will just continue to get it on the street or get someone to make a straw purchase for them or get their ammo over in Pa., where you can still buy whatever you like in whatever quantity, simply by asking for it and being able to pay the retail price. Oh yeah, it just works SO well, trying to limit availability...they should try spending even half their time in actually apprehending the criminal element out there, instead of causing more hassle to the law abiding!
 
I think Smart Guns, combined with these Smart Bullets will totally eliminate crime. :barf:
 
Ammo

cosine said:
Going after guns hasn't worked, so the leftist figure they go after ammunition.

Handloading is starting to sound like a great idea... until they make that illegal too. :uhoh:

Sarah Brady said as much when she spouted:

"We may not be able to get all the guns, but we sure can get the ammunition."

Coming events cast their shadows beforehand. Firearms are protected by 2A.
Ammunition isn't.Remember that the power to tax is the power to destroy

Handloading? Heavy licensing fees paid for the legal manufacture of ammunition isn't too far-fetched, along with heavy taxes levied on primers and powder.
 
Lou629 said:
Let the powers that be in Mass. come down here to NJ and see for themselves...lol...Here we have to have a firearm ID card to buy a PELLET gun for crying out loud, not to mention show that AND your drivers license if you want ANY caliber ammo that could be used in a handgun...
Too late... Here in MA you have to have a state issued firearms ID/License to buy ANY ammo, primers, powder (including black), bullet heads, cases. In MA it is a FELONY for anyone to be in possession of ANY ammunition component unless you have one of the state permits.

To get the state permit, you have to undergo an exhaustive background check. ANY crime you have been convicted of, that caries a maximum jail sentence (weather or not you served that sentence) of 2 years will exclude you from the "privilege" of owning a firearm in the Commiewealth of MA for LIFE.

So, do what they will, but I'd be willing to bet that anyone who can make it through the process of actually obtaining a license in this here state, is NOT the criminal type. And of course we all know, that if they get these laws passed, you will see NO CHANGE in the number of crimes being committed. The criminals will continue to be criminals, laws DON'T apply to them, they just don't care.

Adam
 
Hmm, how do you collect brass from a crime scene where a derringer or revolver was used? These guys just don't have any common sense. This will only help them catch the "dumb" criminals who allow their guns to spew it's own "DNA" across the crime scene. Not all criminals are dumb.

Right now, they are catching the dumb ones easily enough. It's the smarter ones that are hard to catch, and BS like this will not allow them to be caught any easier.
 
Adam_MA said:
Too late... Here in MA you have to have a state issued firearms ID/License to buy ANY ammo, primers, powder (including black), bullet heads, cases. In MA it is a FELONY for anyone to be in possession of ANY ammunition component unless you have one of the state permits.

Really. Did that change recently? I've purchased primers from out of state but Powder, Black powder, bullets and cases never required the FID/State License. Only loaded ammo and firearms.

My black powder rifle was purchased without the license.

I moved to NH two years ago so it may have changed.
 
Of course, all of these laws will have the appropriate exemptions for the Royal Family.
 
You have never needed a license to purchase a black powder gun. However as long as I can remember, you need either an FID (firearms identification card) or LTC (license to carry) to purchase any ammo, or reloading components.

Adam
 
1911JMB said:
Boston seems to really want to fuel the black market.

Exactly! You've got the point very clearly - when you ban or heavily regulate something, you don't "take it off the street" - all you do is raise the price and the associated profits.

Prohibition did not decrease drinking, it just empowered the strongest criminal enterprise ever, in this country. Making drugs illegal has not deterred anyone from taking them - it just created a lucrative black market.

The people who want to ban things are aware of this - y'all are swallowing too much when you believe they think they can "reduce crime" by banning guns. They are aware of supply and demand, and they certainly aren't naive enough to think their grab will make anyone safer - they see money and they are right. If guns and or ammunition are harder to get, criiminals will pay up for them, as tools of their trade. Worked for alcohol (for a while), workes for heroin and cocaine, works for pornography, seems to be working for tobacco (looked at the tax on a pack of smokes lately?) - why not guns?

As much as I'm a strong supporter of free markets, I do not see this as free - when the supply is artificially restricted, and fixed demand drives the price up, that is a manipulated market.

Regards,
Andrew
 
''If people realize that they are likely to be found out, who bought that gun, then they're less likely to commit a crime," Dix said. ''Also, this will have an effect on reducing gun trafficking. . . . With straw purchasers knowing that this gun can be traced right back to them . . . they're less likely to buy these guns and give them to traffickers."
I lost count on the number of bad assumptions in this quote. If you assume this guy is not anti-gun, you have to accept that he is a complete short sighted idiot.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top