Picking an assault rifle

[wmeSha]

I admit that I really like EBR, but semi-automatic combat rifle is nice. Perhaps SACR needs to be brought into popular usage. It's short, descriptive, and easy to pronounce "sacker". Probably EBR is still the best because SACR still attributes a particular intent to a rifle; since many are going to hunt with theirs or use it for entertainment at the range. A rifle is a rifle, and the intent comes from the user. Calling it a combat rifle suggests something different.

Personally, I'm looking into a first black rifle, and I'm thinking about Rock River. Seems like their production lines are running full steam, so you should think of something else, like DPMS, so my rifle is ready faster.

 

[uneasy_rider]

semi-automatic combat rifle is nice.

Thats no better than calling it an assault weapon, in my opinion.

I like and will continue to use the term assault weapon. Contrary to what some people will tell you, gun enthusiasts started using this term before the Antis did. The term assault weapon is a well defined term in common usage. It has been defined by federal government, is defined in Random House and American Heritage dictionaries, and has its own entry on Wikipedia.org. It does not carry a negative connotation, nor should it. Some people will tell you that using this term "plays into the hands of the antis", but I just don't see it that way.

These other terms people are proposing are silly. We all know what an assault weapon is. Inventing words in the name of political correctness is part of our problem!

The bottom line is that we need a term to differentiate semi-auto, magazine fed, high capacity combat style rifles from semi-auto sporting rifles.

I would be ok using the term "semi-auto, magazine fed, high capacity combat style rifles" but thats a little bulky. Plus, calling it an assault weapon pisses off the antis.

 

[benEzra]

I say get a pair and stand up and call it what it is.......a semi auto combat rifle!

I agree with your disdain for the term "sporting" (a term which I HATE), but they're not combat rifles, either. No military on this planet uses non-automatic civilian AR-15's or AKM's, as far as I am aware. They're rifles, black rifles, semiautomatic rifles/carbines, whatever, but AR's and civvie AK's are civilian, not military.

Adopting the anti's deliberate conflation of NFA Title 2 restricted assault rifles with ordinary civilian AR-15's and AK's doesn't help anyone, and pulls the rug out from under those of us who spend a lot of time trying to educate the media and others about the difference.

 

[RP88]

I always thought that federal and state laws still referred to them as assault weapons. Also, if you think about it, an AK/HK/AR-15/etc. semi-only is still an assault weapon; it has a shorter barrel, uses a pistol-type grip, uses or accepts high-cap mags, come with or can accept flash supressors, muzzle breaks, etc. (or used to) just like any other military-style assault weapon. The only main difference is that it isnt select-fire, and fire in semi-auto. Just the lack of that one feature doesnt change what it is or what it was designed after in my opinion (even though of course none of us plan on 'assaulting' anyone with it, but still). I honestly thought that every gun advocate or owner would assume that assault weapon = semi-auto version and would say 'military-style', 'machine gun', 'full-auto' or something that would imply as such if they were talking about a true military-used, select-fre assault rifle.

sorry for accidentally starting a fire; I just assumed everyone knew what I meant.

also, one more question: for a WASR AK. Yes, the furnish isnt exactly 'classy'. So, would it be possible to purchase aftermarket composite or polymer grips and stocks to use over the wood pieces? I so, how much would that additionally run? Also, is it possible to do the same with an SKS?

 

[10-Ring]

As someone once told me re: AKs....as a battle rifle & with 20-30,000 of your best friends shooting full auto in the same general vacinity, they make for good guns....if accuracy is important to you, keep looking

 

[possum]

or convert your sks to a "look a like" ak sks is better IMO as you get the last round lock back

no no no if you want an sks buy and sks, if you want an ak buy an ak. don't go converting stuff, thats where you run into reliability issues, and all sorts of messes.

 

[gotime242]

Well, the ak is pretty accurate if you click the mouse to fire one-by-one, when you hold the mouse down it just sprays everywhere.

Oh...oh wait...we are not talking counter strike, haha jk.


All i have to say is i have a Saiga in .308, i...like you...wanted a first "assault rifle", so far its been great. Reliable, accurate ::enough::, and cost-effective for a newcomer into rifles. (but the ammo is pretty expensive so you might want to look at .223)

For what it is, and what i wanted i couldnt be happier.

 

[dscottw88]

Its very easy to swap out new black polymer furniture on most AKs if you dont want the wood on there. This website is one of many offering quality parts for different firearms including the AR and AK. You'll find furniture sets here for both MILLED and STAMPED recievers. Make sure you know what kind of reciever you have. I believe most of the cheaper AKs are stamped, as milled is a more expensive and more reliable process.

http://ultimak.com/buy.htm

 

[nalioth]

I believe most of the cheaper AKs are stamped, as milled is a more expensive and more reliable process.

There is absolutely no difference in the reliability of a milled or stamped receivered AK.

The milled receivers were made due to Russian metallurgical technology restrictions back in the late 40s and early 50s.

Milled receivers cost more due to more labor involved in the manufacturing. All you get out of it is a lighter wallet and a heavier AK.

 

[Cmdr. Gravez0r]

incorrect

no no no if you want an sks buy and sks, if you want an ak buy an ak. don't go converting stuff, thats where you run into reliability issues, and all sorts of messes.

Only if you don't know what you're doing. I highly recommend the SKS. Highly customizable IF you do it right. Check HERE. Get to know these guys. Ask them to sell you on an SKS, they will do it. This is the one-stop shop for expert SKS info.

www.sksboards.com

 

[mattw]

I haven't seen anyone suggest that you build an AR15 yet. If you want something cheap to play around with at the range, then go for the SKS. If you want something that will be accurate and reliable under harsh conditions with no shortage on quality ammo and you want good ergonomics then build an AR.

With today's AK prices hovering around 400-500 dollars, you an easily build an AR 15 for about 100 dollars more. Being college educated, I don't believe that you would have too much trouble putting one together, the parts do not require any fitting or anything.

If you are not confident in your ability to assemble an AR, then CMMG has some good deals on "bargain bin" rifles. Rifles that were stored in bulk and have a few cosmetic blemishes but are otherwise brand new.

 

[possum]

i own an sks, i love the sks, and they are great when they are used for what they are intended to be, and lots of fun to shoot. but when people start bubbafying them and using detacahable sks mags that cause issues and reliability problems ad such. that is when the problems start. they want an "assault rifle" out of a rifle that was never meant to be that in the first place. if you want an "assault rifle" buy one.

 

[collateral]

Also, if you think about it, an AK/HK/AR-15/etc. semi-only is still an assault weapon; it has a shorter barrel, uses a pistol-type grip, uses or accepts high-cap mags, come with or can accept flash supressors, muzzle breaks, etc. (or used to) just like any other military-style assault weapon.

Well I have a Bushmaster AR-15 a Romanian WASR 10, and Ive never used either of them to "assault" anybody.

What you need to understand is that terms such as "Assault Weapon," and "High Capacity" are loaded terms, meant to scare people who don't know much about firearms. As far as I know, the AK was designed with a 30 round magazine, so that would make it a standard capacity magazine. The original ARs had 20 round magazines, so all this "if its over 10 rounds its hi-cap" stuff is just a load of garbage.

There are millions of accurate, scoped 30 caliber rifles in this country, but they arent "sniper guns" (OMG! ), they are hunting rifles.

Just because a weapon may be suitable for combat or "assaults," doesn't mean thats what the weapon is for.

My AR and AK serve 2 different purposes. Both of them spend the majority of their life either in the safe or at the range. But apart from being fun guns, they are also suitable for defending my family and myself, and they, like all other civilian owned firearms in this country, ensure that the peoples voice isn't silenced.

So instead of "assault weapons" maybe we should start calling them "defensive weapons"

 

[FMJMIKE]

My Saiga .223/5.56 rifle is the most accurate shooting AK I have ever owned. rolling plastic bottles at 100 yards with open sights is easy. They will eat anything and are the most reliable semi-auto rifles out there. Buy a Saiga and convert it yourself.

 

[RP88]

My whole thing is that I'm already certain that I'll get an SKS as a starting out rifle just to get into shooting for fun, instead of forking of 350 for an AK or about 700 for an M4/AR15. This way, it wont be a large waste of money if I dont end up getting into going out with it frequently. However, if I got into it, I would want an AK-47 before an M4/M16 just because I've always had a taste for what it offers despite its shorter range and less-than-precise accuracy. I've also had a taste in the M- ARs because of their versatility and sleekness, but would like to start out as cheap and simple as possible with the latter two first. From there, my interest goes into handguns, which I'm not old enough to own yet.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

Have you had a chance to shoot an SKS yet, or at least fondle one in a store?

I've owned a few SKSs, and wasn't thrilled with the general ergonomics and features. My Norinco SKS wasn't quite so bad, but my Yugo SKS felt extra clumsy and long. Clearly, tons of folks love them (at the price), but it would be advisable to make sure you feel it fits you before you buy one. Ideally by shooting one at the range, but at least shouldering it and getting a feel for it.

If I were in your shoes, I'd take a hard look at a Saiga. The .223 and 7.62x30mm Saigas are going as low as $239 on Gunbroker. I'd be inclined to get the .223 since the ammo costs about the same these days, and decently accurate .223 is easier to come by (for a little more money) than accurate 7.62x39mm.

If you don't like the Saiga, it'll be easy to sell it. If you do like it, you (or you and a mechanically inclined buddy) can legally convert it into a classic AK like FMJMike posted above.


In all the hubbub about definitions and terminology, I think we missed the easy question: do you have a .22 rifle already?

If you don't, unless you need a centerfire rifle immediately for defensive purposes, I would strongly advise you get a .22 rifle first. Get one for $75-175, shoot it plenty and properly (don't just spray bullets, learn to shoot accurately), and then figure out what you want in a rifle a few months down the road.

If you want semi-auto, the main options are the Marlin 60 and the Ruger 10/22. I prefer the Marlin, and it's also cheaper ($110ish new, $50-75 used). The Ruger has a ton of aftermarket parts/upgrades, and costs around $175 new.

Just about everyone in the gun world agrees that a .22 is an outstanding tool to practice shooting (ammo costs a fraction of the larger calibers), so take a hard look at that as a first rifle.

 

[RP88]

hm, thats a very good point/idea.

My dad owns a .22 that just sits in the garage collecting dust. Its an old trainer single shot, and its hella dirty, but I'm sure with a little cleaning and permission, I could take it out to the range and have a little fun with it for cheap.

As for shooting guns, I've actually never shot anything outside of a Glock 19, and I only did about three clips, so I have little shooting experience in general, especially with rifles, which is limited to BB and pellet rifles (I know, that doesnt count).

However, when it comes to shouldering and examining, I've held everything between AR-15s and M4s with the adjusting stocks, AK yugo underfolders, WASR AKs, HKGs, and an SKS. Maybe its from the fact that I have virtually no experience, but I never expressed a preference about ergonomics or holding aside from a preference of wanting a vertical grip on an M-4 or AR-15, and a preference for polymer or composite material.

 

[MatthewVanitas]

My dad owns a .22 that just sits in the garage collecting dust. Its an old trainer single shot, and its hella dirty, but I'm sure with a little cleaning and permission, I could take it out to the range and have a little fun with it for cheap.

As for shooting guns, I've actually never shot anything outside of a Glock 19, and I only did about three clips, so I have little shooting experience in general, especially with rifles, which is limited to BB and pellet rifles (I know, that doesnt count).

Huh, might be pretty fun to clean up that old .22 and give it a whirl. Might give you an excuse to store the rifle somewhere safer too. A garage is usually a rust-prone environment, so "Gee Dad, I better keep this in my closet with the bolt stored separately, since I spent hours cleaning it" might be a diplomatic way to get your own gun.

Post back here and let us know what kind of .22 it is. Maybe you'll be lucky at it'll be some awesome vintage target rifle.


I'll leave it to other folks to recommend online reading for shooting instruction, but you would be highly advised to do a little reading up on the basics:

-sight alignment
-sight picture
-breath control
-trigger control

-the myriad positions, etc.

These things would best be learned by actual coaching, but in the absence of money or a free coach, reading up and taking them seriously would be a great start. The great upside of a single-shot boltgun is that you're obliged to take your time with it, so you'll be totally immune to the desire to "spray and pray."

Do bear in mind that every other week the Marine Corps takes a bunch of random (mainly teenage) yahoos out to the snapping-in range for a week to practice the basics with an unloaded rifle, and then maybe four days of shooting with actual live ammo. The result: practically everyone can regularly hit a man-sized target at 500m from the prone. This is purely a result of teaching the basics listed above, and taking them seriously.

I'm totally for getting out and having fun with a gun, but you'll have all the more fun if you know the basic principles and can smoke the CounterStrike kiddies who dropped $900 on an AR they can't shoot. Get in practice with the .22 boltgun, and you'll be ready to turn heads with the AR.


(Reading this post, I think I sound like I'm some cantankerous codger, but I'm actually in my late 20s.)

 

[RP88]

my dad said he got it while he was in the army back in the early 70's.

I just looked at it and wrote everything down:

JC Higgins Model 30 .22LR only, Sears Roebuck and and Co. 583.70. It loads with a tube mag of course

only problem seen is the dust and the finish on the barrel for the most part is worn and nasty-looking. The chamber looked fine. The stock and grip was dark wood furnish...possibly walnut. It has a scope groove in front of the rear notch sight.

anything special about it? It looks pretty decent and seems to only need a good cleaning and refinishing (very easily done). Only problem is that I dont know what my dad did with the cleaning rod, so I may have to go buy some cleaning oil and such for it and improvise for a makeshift cleaning rod.