picking up bullets from range info

[bhhacker]

So i was at the range and have been researching reloading and casting my own bullets. If i understand correctly, i can use any stuff i find at the range to melt down to make my own bullets? anything meaning all actual fired bullets? I picked up a couple pounds of them, but a lot didnt look like straight up lead. It looked like FMJ pistol ammo.


Can I still collect and melt that stuff down? Forgive me if its a bit nooby of me to ask but thank you for your time.

 

[rcmodel]

Yes.

Plated bullets need to be smashed with a hammer to split the plated jacket open before you can melt them.
Jacketed bullets with exposed lead in the base or nose can just be tossed in the pot.

Range pickup should be given time to throughly dry any trapped water inside them, or you will have a steam explosion in the melting pot if water touches the molten lead in the pot.
Thats not good!

When you melt it, do it in a big pan of some kind to blend it all together into the same alloy mix.
The jackets and dross will float to the top of the lead so you can skim it off.

rc

 

[ridgerunner1965]

be sure and save the copper jackets in a bucket for scrap selling.

 

[why.kyle]

be sure and save the copper jackets in a bucket for scrap selling.

Thats actually a really good idea.
Also there are some ok youtube videos on the concept that I found helpful when I first was learning. Sometimes it helps to see rather then just read.

 

[bhhacker]

Happen to have any links of the videos that you watched kyle?

I am really new so i am guessing ill have to smash everything just to make sure :-\

what happens if the copper is thrown in with, do you just ladle it out or does it foul up the bullets?

 

[rcmodel]

I already said in post #2 the jackets and dross will float to the top of the lead so you can skim it off.

Plated bullets will have no lead exposed on the base or nose.

Jacketed bullets will have lead exposed on one end or the other.

rc

 

[x_wrench]

Make SURE NOT to use an ALUMINUM pan to smelt in! the 2 are close enough in temperature that you could melt the bottom out of the pan, and you most likely would get burned quite badly. steel, iron, or stainless steel would all work fine. you will also need to "flux" the lead to get rid of impurities, sand, dirt, etc. i use both parafin wax and sawdust. (at seperate times). i want to be sure no dirt goes down my barrel!

 

[Hondo 60]

My question is, if you use "range found" lead, how do you know the composition, (and therefore the hardness)?

I would want wheelweights for softer shooting calibers, like 44 Spl, 38 Spl, 45 ACP & 45 Colt.
But I'd want much harder for 357 Mag, 44 Mag, etc.

 

[Riceman98]

Make SURE NOT to use an ALUMINUM pan to smelt in! the 2 are close enough in temperature that you could melt the bottom out of the pan, and you most likely would get burned quite badly. steel, iron, or stainless steel would all work fine. you will also need to "flux" the lead to get rid of impurities, sand, dirt, etc. i use both parafin wax and sawdust. (at seperate times). i want to be sure no dirt goes down my barrel!

Aluminum melts at 1220 and lead melts at 620. I wouldn't consider that close.

 

[dragon813gt]

Aluminum is not considered an acceptable metal for melting lead in. There have been plenty of instances of the material failing. Use either Stainless Steel of US Made cast iron. Stay away from Chineese cast iron as there are reports of it cracking easily.

Go over to the Cast Boolits site if you want more info on casting. There is a wealth of information there. Any questions you have, have already been answered there.

As to not knowing the lead composition. You never know to begin with. Wheel weights are all over the place anymore. But a general rule is the jacketed rounds are dead soft lead. And any cast rounds you pick up are obviously fit to cast again with nothing added. Most people just melt all types together to give them a decently hard alloy. If it's not hard enough it's time to alloy in some other metals to get the brinell hardness where you want it.

Just head over to Cast Boolits.


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[cfullgraf]

The jackets and dross will float to the top of the lead so you can skim it off.

Right.

When i melted down range bullet pick ups, I would extract the lead and make ingots. Then cast the bullets at a different time. It is not a requirement, but I found skimming the jackets and dirt from the lead diverted my attention from the actual casting.

But that is a personal operational preference.

Lots, or all, of jacketed or plated bullets will be pretty soft lead. I would add some alloying agents at times, but pretty much assumed my bullets as soft and would load them accordingly. I almost always had some cast bullet pick-ups that would harden the lead a bit. One could come up with a mix to make the finished product as hard as desired but getting it uniform from batch to batch was more effort than I was willing to do.

 

[drsfmd]

Make sure that lead salvage is an acceptable practice at your club or range. Most don't permit it.

 

[bhhacker]

@drsfmd

Why wouldnt they allow it? The range I go to is an outdoor range with literally tons of lead laying around.


It has a pistol and rifle range and I just grabbed the lead i saw on the ground while we were checking our targets for the pistol range, and then after 9pm when the range doesnt allow shooting and no one was there.

 

[drsfmd]

@drsfmd

Why wouldnt they allow it? The range I go to is an outdoor range with literally tons of lead laying around.


It has a pistol and rifle range and I just grabbed the lead i saw on the ground while we were checking our targets for the pistol range, and then after 9pm when the range doesnt allow shooting and no one was there.

Because some guy won't be content picking up a coffee can full of stuff from the surface, he'll want to set up a sluice box and start digging it out of the berm, causing erosion.

While I see no harm in picking up the loose stuff, it is expressly forbidden at all of the clubs I belong to (8, I think, at last count) because the argument is that you can't stop one and not stop all.

 

[bhhacker]

haha i live in Juneau, Alaska. I bet its a lot easier to use a sluice box with dry ground

 

[choppinlow]

My question is, if you use "range found" lead, how do you know the composition, (and therefore the hardness)?

Not to sound funny, but I use a lead hardness tester for that. Takes all the guess work out of it and right to BHN if you can use it well. The mix of range-lead I pick up (mostly jacketed) is pretty soft and a good bit softer than most wheel weight lead. It doesn't make much difference because it takes so little tin to really harden an alloy up you can't tell a big difference in the end. I have buckets of linotype that my father collected when he was casting years ago I use to mix/harden and it does the trick.

 

[homatok]

Tin added to an alloy does NOT make that alloy substantially harder! To harden an alloy you need to add Antimony and hopefully a tiny bit of Arsenic, both of which you get from adding in wheel weights. Adding tin to the alloy makes it flow better so you get more complete fill-out of the mould! 2% tin is all that is needed, any more is a waste of an expensive component!

 

[choppinlow]

I won't argue with you, but I have 99.9 pure tin and my BHN increases when added. Have you checked it with a hardness tester? I have other alloys to add as well, but tin changes the hardness in my shop.

 

[rcmodel]

At the price of tin, you are wasting your money trying to harden bullets with it.

Lyman # 49 lists the following:

Pure lead = BNH 5
Wheelweights = BNH 9
97% lead 3% Tin = BNH 9
94% Lead 6% Tin = BNH 11
91% lead 9% Tin = BNH 11.5.
92% lead 2% Tin 6% Antimony = BNH 15
84% Lead 4% Tin 12% Antimony = BNH 22

rc

 

[choppinlow]

Maybe -

Just curious though RC, have you measured any of those?

Pure lead I get 5
Most WW I get here I get a about 10-11
Most range lead I pickup is only about 7-8
I can add 2-3% tin and it is up around 11-12.

Perhaps I cannot measure well, but it is decent hardness and a far cry harder than 9. At 9 I would have more leading issues with some calibers i work with and I don't get that with what I read at 12. Not sure what the books say, but that is my real range and lead experience anyway. Maybe it is just how I measure the hardness, but the real proof is at the firing line.

 

[dragon813gt]

I trust Lyman's numbers more than any of the ones we come up with. They are verified lab numbers.

And RC is 100% correct about wasting money by using tin to harden an alloy. The chemistry behind it cant be argued. There are better elements to add to lead to harden the alloy. Anything more than 2% isn't doing much. Read the book "From Ingot to Target." It's available for free online and explains the chemistry as well as a lot of other topics about cast bullets.


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[Nappers]

If your range allows, go after a good rain, those bullets are everywhere. I got 22lbs in half an hour.

some links

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Se7Xy1mVDmE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziEt2vOpX7Q

I use my Lyman Big dipper furnace to smelt my lead, and be very careful, if you wash it. a water pocket will indeed cause a lead explosion. I still have lead in the driveway. Don't be scared, just be careful and have fun. I use my lead for black powder shooting and may dabble with bullet making.

A website called Cast Boolits is a good source too.

Have fun. It's a hoot to make your own stuff.