Pillar Bedding and Wood Stocks

[KsSkaEnthusiast]

How important is pillar bedding to you when you consider purchasing a rifle with a wood or laminate stock? A few months ago i was close to buying an x bolt 30-06 with a gorgeous and fitting wood stock but when i learned that neither that nor the tikka wood stocks had pillars i decided to get the savage 110 ultralight storm in .270. I just didn't feel like paying almost 850 dollars to then turn around and throw it straight on my drill press. But does this affect your purchases?

 

[earlthegoat2]

If it was a hunting rifle, I wouldn’t care either way.

 

[JFrank]

It's not a deal breaker on a hunting rifle.

 

[Varminterror]

I’m far too cheap to feel good about the idea of spending $850 on a new rifle I intend to own and shoot for considerable time (hence why I was willing to spend $850 on it) and then NOT spending the $50 and few hours of my life to ensure it shoots to its best ability, reliably.

I block and bed.

 

[wiscoaster]

My memory may not be right, but the Tikkas have recoil lugs, don't they? Shouldn't need a bedded pillar with a bedded recoil lug, I wouldn't think.

 

[KsSkaEnthusiast]

This probably says more about my confidence in my drill press and in myself rather than the rifle.

 

[Varminterror]

My memory may not be right, but the Tikkas have recoil lugs, don't they? Shouldn't need a bedded pillar with a bedded recoil lug, I wouldn't think.

This is not how pillars or recoil lugs work at all.

 

[Varminterror]

This probably says more about my confidence in my drill press and in myself rather than the rifle.

I use a piloted counterbore in a variable speed drill most often. I may use a T handle to open the bottom of the stock instead of the power tool, or simply open to within the bottom metal inlet, depending upon the footprint.

 

[jmr40]

When the rifle is new it may not make much difference. But over time the wood will compress where the action screws go through the stock. Pillars prevent that, especially on wood stocks.

 

[wiscoaster]

This is not how pillars or recoil lugs work at all.

Well, depends on what the problem is, no?

I have rifles with pillars and no recoil lugs, rifles with recoil lugs and no pillars, and rifles with neither. My error was in assuming what problem the OP wished to address when it wasn't stated.

 

[Varminterror]

Well, depends on what the problem is, no?

I have rifles with pillars and no recoil lugs, rifles with recoil lugs and no pillars, and rifles with neither. My error was in assuming what problem the OP wished to address when it wasn't stated.

Not really, no, it doesn’t. Because pillars aren’t designed to be recoil lugs, at least in most rifles.

Pillars, in general, are designed to offer consistent dimension between the action and the action screw heads. We also design pillars to ensure the action screws do NOT act as recoil lugs. On actions like the Tikka T3 or Ruger American, in which the recoil lugs aren’t secured to the action, we use a couple different tricks to bed the V block or recoil lug and still free float the action screw radially. But we shouldn’t be sinking pillars in non-Rimfire actions to create a recoil lug out of the action screws against the pillars.

The recoil lug’s job is also simple - zero stop against rearward force. That’s it. The lug creates physically connection between a front edge of the stock and a back edge on the action, transferring and distributing recoil force from the action to the stock.

Different design aspects, entirely.

 

[wiscoaster]

...Different design aspects, entirely.

That's got to be about the best distinction I've read anywhere.

 

[R.W.Dale]

How does the rifle shoot now?

if it’s an already good shooting hunting rifle then spend that money on glass or ammo

“Better is the enemy of good enough” Stalin…I think

 

[JFrank]

While pillars and bedding improve harmonics I would likely see a lot more gain from simple load development.

 

[Slamfire]

Not really, no, it doesn’t. Because pillars aren’t designed to be recoil lugs, at least in most rifles.

Pillars, in general, are designed to offer consistent dimension between the action and the action screw heads. We also design pillars to ensure the action screws do NOT act as recoil lugs. On actions like the Tikka T3 or Ruger American, in which the recoil lugs aren’t secured to the action, we use a couple different tricks to bed the V block or recoil lug and still free float the action screw radially. But we shouldn’t be sinking pillars in non-Rimfire actions to create a recoil lug out of the action screws against the pillars.

The recoil lug’s job is also simple - zero stop against rearward force. That’s it. The lug creates physically connection between a front edge of the stock and a back edge on the action, transferring and distributing recoil force from the action to the stock.

Different design aspects, entirely.

The K31 receiver is designed to slide under recoil. The only thing that might be considered a recoil lug is the lug behind the trigger assembly





The front action screw is not to be tightened to the level that the front of the action can't slide. And you know, this works!

100 yard groups, K31



I have one older rifle where I did not cast epoxy pillars and the wood has crushed under the action. Buggers!

Since then I have tended to drill a big hole



fill it with two part epoxy







then I route out all the wood around it and pour in more epoxy

 

[KsSkaEnthusiast]

The K31 receiver is designed to slide under recoil. The only thing that might be considered a recoil lug is the lug behind the trigger assembly

View attachment 1032628

View attachment 1032629

The front action screw is not to be tightened to the level that the front of the action can't slide. And you know, this works!

100 yard groups, K31

View attachment 1032630

I have one older rifle where I did not cast epoxy pillars and the wood has crushed under the action. Buggers!

Since then I have tended to drill a big hole

View attachment 1032631

fill it with two part epoxy

View attachment 1032632

View attachment 1032633

View attachment 1032634

then I route out all the wood around it and pour in more epoxy

View attachment 1032635

View attachment 1032636
View attachment 1032637

that is fascinating

 

[mgmorden]

If the gun shoots minute of deer and doesn't split its own stock I couldn't care less about bedding on a hunting rifle.

 

[Skylerbone]

“Better is the enemy of good enough” Stalin…I think

I don’t care for the communist model of good enough. Corrected for a lifetime, or at least, generally, a decade or more is better.

While pillars and bedding improve harmonics I would likely see a lot more gain from simple load development.

True but for the little invested we can have both.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

The K31 receiver is designed to slide under recoil. The only thing that might be considered a recoil lug is the lug behind the trigger assembly

That's also what David Watson says in his book: https://www.amazon.com/Schmidt-Rubin-Performance-Tuning-Manual

It helps explain why the Swiss went to the bother of forging and milling out the trigger housing as a part of the receiver, instead of simply pinning or bolting it into place. I asked Dale Ding about this on the Swiss Rifle FB group and he provided this diagram of the K31 receiver forging:



On my recent K31 rework, I did pillar bedding mainly to prevent the action screws from splitting the laminated stock under recoil. I wallered-out the inside of the pillars before installing. I also AcraGlased the surface behind the trigger housing. I guess I'll find out over time whether either of these things have affected accuracy -- I still have an unaltered K31 to compare with as a control.

 

[JFrank]

I don’t care for the communist model of good enough. Corrected for a lifetime, or at least, generally, a decade or more is better.



True but for the little invested we can have both.

Wouldn't you think to determine a measurable improvement one would require a decent and stable load to begin with.

 

[d2wing]

I would buy the better rifle and only concern myself about details like pillar bedding if it didn't shoot. My Tikka T3 synthetic stock shoots great.

 

[Skylerbone]

Wouldn't you think to determine a measurable improvement one would require a decent and stable load to begin with.

Pillars are about stabilization. No need to damage things before addressing them. Consider them the steel toe guard in your boots; there to prevent testing how much damage another object can do to your foot.

 

[Varminterror]

Pillars and bedding should not truly be considered “accurizing.” They help ensure an accurate rifle remains accurate. A poor load is a poor load, and a great load is a great load. If an action can move in a stock, in most cases, that means it can move irregularly and inconsistently. If a stock compresses, it may allow an action to move. Blocking and bedding prevent these shifts before they happen.

 

[JFrank]

My Savage BVSS came with pillars installed although I was not aware of that prior to purchasing. From there I developed a decent load at 200 yards IIRC about 3/4 inch groups, I had a pro bed the action then retuned to the range to compare only to find a very modest improvement similar to a seating adjustment.
I dont over tighten action screws more like 35 inch pounds.
I just dont believe it to be a deal breaker on a hunting rifle. If I liked the rifle i would buy it regardless.

 

[Skylerbone]

If you’ve ever spent $10k on a guided hunt or stopped to consider such a venture, there should be an immediate understanding of why a hunting rifle is worth treating right.