I am one day closer to purchasing a boyds classic stock for my savage axis and my buddy mentioned i should pillar bed and glass bed the action but i really have no clue about any of that. Do you do both or just one? Whats the best supplies to purchase if i go this route? Just trying to get all my ducks in a row before woodchuck season!
pillar or glass bedding?
- Thread starter Axis II
- Start date
- Status
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
- Messages
- 14,969
It’s pillar block, and “glass” bed.
Wood stocks should have metal pillars installed. (OR have epoxy pillars molded in with the bedding of a guy is dang handy). Doing so precludes any environmental effect on the wood from causing any shifting of the pressure against the action screws. Think about blowing all of your air out, tightening your belt, then taking a big breath in... that’s what action screws do when things get humid...
Synthetic stocks don’t swell, so they don’t have to be blocked, but some of us still do, to prevent galling, compressing, or cracking over time as the action is removed and replaced.
Bedding then, is just filling the gaps between the stock and the action, so it will always be in the same exact position for every shot.
So pillars and bedding serve two separate functions, with the same objective - improve consistency in the stock-to-action interface pressure - but doing so in different ways.
Wood stocks should have metal pillars installed. (OR have epoxy pillars molded in with the bedding of a guy is dang handy). Doing so precludes any environmental effect on the wood from causing any shifting of the pressure against the action screws. Think about blowing all of your air out, tightening your belt, then taking a big breath in... that’s what action screws do when things get humid...
Synthetic stocks don’t swell, so they don’t have to be blocked, but some of us still do, to prevent galling, compressing, or cracking over time as the action is removed and replaced.
Bedding then, is just filling the gaps between the stock and the action, so it will always be in the same exact position for every shot.
So pillars and bedding serve two separate functions, with the same objective - improve consistency in the stock-to-action interface pressure - but doing so in different ways.
someguy2800
Member
Shoot it first and see what happens.
So should one be done and not both?
The reading i did i figured put in pillars in at minimum so the screws don't crack the wood?
someguy2800
Member
Have any of your other wood stocked guns with no pillars cracked the stock? None of mine have.
Glass bedding and pillars are not a necessity for a gun to shoot well but its always a good addition if your willing to put in the time and effort to do it. There are many many guns that have been shooting exceptionally well for a long long time without either but a good bedding job will help it be more consistent. There are also lots of rifles that bedding will cure a lot of accuracy problems if the stock was poorly fitting in the first place. I would recommend getting the gun in the new stock and see how it shoots first before you go off the deep end fixing what may not be broken. If you just want to make this a learning experience and want to see how it works then by all means go right ahead. There is no point in putting in pillars if your not also going to bed it in my opinion. Many rifles do work just fine with bedding and no pillars though. Laminate stocks don't compress quite as much as solid wood. Depends on what the screws are seating against too.
I only own a shotgun with wood stock so no experience just going off what i read.
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
- Messages
- 14,969
For my rifles, both are done, almost always, except in chassis rifles, which don't need pillars, but can still be bedded. Personally, I wouldn't ever put in pillars without bedding, but in synthetic stocks, as I mentioned above, a guy can bed without pillars.
They serve different purposes. Putting in pillars without bedding may just create a "bridge" out of the action, leaving two major pressure points, and not providing proper interface between the stock and the action. Bedding the action improves that interface, so if a stock is pillar blocked, it should be bedded too. Alternatively, again, if a guy isn't worried about warp/expansion/shrinkage/etc of their stock, they may only need to bed their rifle, and not need pillars.
I'm not a guy who buys the "shoot it to see if it needs it" manner of thinking. When done properly, blocking and bedding doesn't make rifles shoot worse, ever, and at worst, it makes the rifle easier to service. Typically, for factory rifles, it will make a notable improvement in precision.
So for MY rifles, block and bed, both, almost always. Bed always always.
pert near
Member
For bolt actions, I recommend pillars & glass-bed. I like to use Devcon Steel Putty for the job. I used to lathe turn aluminum pillars but now I just use threaded lamp tubes for pillars. They seem to work just as well. I use hex-head action screws & use a torque wrench to tighten down (45lbs to 55lbs).
Just FWIW...
Last edited:
Be sure to not over tighten the action screws. I learned it the hard way. It is now has pillars and is bedded after fixing the stock. Boyd's stocks are soft but good if you don't over tighten.
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
- Messages
- 14,969
I use Devcon Steel and aluminum pillars. Hi-Skor adjustable pillars are nice for Remingtons, PTG's are fine for Rugers. Not sure what's out there for the Savage Axis.
You won't "crack" the wood stock with action screws, especially if you have the action and bottom metal bedded. But you can compress it over time, and that compression especially can change dimension with changes in environmental conditions. You'd really have to go torque crazy with the driver to crack a stock with an action screw... Even the ridiculously tight Ruger screws, pinching down on that tiny bearing section under the front action screw and recoil lug, don't crack stocks.
We can get away with a lot of things in a hunting rifle, because hitting a 6" vital zone at 300yrds isn't much to ask of the rifle. I'd be interested to hear how many wooden stocked rifles which were NOT bedded had won or finished in the top 10% of any larger bench rest, F-class, or other precision match in the last 20yrs. Some guys I knew even skipped the release agent and "glued" the action into the stock (admittedly, I never did ask about the logistics of doing so, I have my actions out of my stocks all of the time!!). I block and bed my hunting rifles, even my deer rifles, because I shoot about 5-10 shots per year at game, and a couple hundred shots on targets, and I hold them to the same expectation as my sporting rifles - shoot where I tell them.
Since you're looking to use this Axis for 300yrd benchrest, nothing could convince me it shouldn't be blocked and bedded.
You won't "crack" the wood stock with action screws, especially if you have the action and bottom metal bedded. But you can compress it over time, and that compression especially can change dimension with changes in environmental conditions. You'd really have to go torque crazy with the driver to crack a stock with an action screw... Even the ridiculously tight Ruger screws, pinching down on that tiny bearing section under the front action screw and recoil lug, don't crack stocks.
We can get away with a lot of things in a hunting rifle, because hitting a 6" vital zone at 300yrds isn't much to ask of the rifle. I'd be interested to hear how many wooden stocked rifles which were NOT bedded had won or finished in the top 10% of any larger bench rest, F-class, or other precision match in the last 20yrs. Some guys I knew even skipped the release agent and "glued" the action into the stock (admittedly, I never did ask about the logistics of doing so, I have my actions out of my stocks all of the time!!). I block and bed my hunting rifles, even my deer rifles, because I shoot about 5-10 shots per year at game, and a couple hundred shots on targets, and I hold them to the same expectation as my sporting rifles - shoot where I tell them.
Since you're looking to use this Axis for 300yrd benchrest, nothing could convince me it shouldn't be blocked and bedded.
@Varminterror these are the pillars and mag clip everyone seems to be using.
http://v3precision.com/magazine-clip-and-pillar-kits/savage-axis/
http://v3precision.com/magazine-clip-and-pillar-kits/savage-axis/
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
- Messages
- 14,969
^ there ya go...
someguy2800
Member
I also use devcon steel putty and devcon titanium putty. Works excellent and is thick enough to stay where you put it. I always use Pam cooking spray as a release agent and have never had anything stick with it. Don't use a petroleum based oil as a release agent, ask me how I know. I've always made my own pillars from aluminum or steel spacers.
Llama Bob
member
- Joined
- Feb 25, 2016
- Messages
- 2,258
Typically you want to do both for maximum accuracy and stability. Pillars prevent the stock from being crushed by the action screws, make everything more rigid, and reduce enviromental effects (humidity etc.). "Glass" (really epoxy) bedding prevents the action from shifting forward/back, side/side, or rotating in the stock.
CptnAwesome
Member
If I'm not mistaken the Boyd's stocks are pillar bedded anyway right?
Not necessarily. My Varmint was not.
This is not too simple a project. Not to scare but it does take a little time and attention. I would agree with the poster that said to shoot first. Depending on your application, you might be surprised at the factory capability.
Google and Youtube are your friends.
Varminterror
Member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2016
- Messages
- 14,969
No, boyd’s stocks do not include pillars.
Some factory rifles which include boyd’s contracted stocks are pillar blocked by the manufacturers.
Some factory rifles which include boyd’s contracted stocks are pillar blocked by the manufacturers.
A buddy cracked his Rem Model 7 stock at the front screw, then couldn't figure why it wouldn't group well. He wanted to sell it and my neighbor wanted to buy it, so I found the problem after taking it apart.
The cure was to use 1/2" diameter pillars made from steel tubing bought at Home Depot and bed the action with epoxy, free-floating the barrel and bottom of the recoil plate. I also bedded a wood screw shaft across the stock crack, near the front screw. Sighting-in the rifle, shot a perfect clover-leaf at 100 yards with cheap Rem. Core-Locts. The neighbor loves it and shot a huge buck with it last season.
If you decide to bed your rifle, read up on the proper way to do it. There are lots of instructions out there. Some by Darrell Holland are quite detailed, but may be a bit involved for some.
The cure was to use 1/2" diameter pillars made from steel tubing bought at Home Depot and bed the action with epoxy, free-floating the barrel and bottom of the recoil plate. I also bedded a wood screw shaft across the stock crack, near the front screw. Sighting-in the rifle, shot a perfect clover-leaf at 100 yards with cheap Rem. Core-Locts. The neighbor loves it and shot a huge buck with it last season.
If you decide to bed your rifle, read up on the proper way to do it. There are lots of instructions out there. Some by Darrell Holland are quite detailed, but may be a bit involved for some.
Last edited:
pert near
Member
Thanks! I read that yesterday.
- Status
