Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Ru4real, Jun 8, 2021.
How many shots can a guy throw out before it gets shady? If I shoot 10 rounds, can I throw out the worst 5?
Just kidding, but I understand your sentiment. However, I never throw rounds out of groups, because I believe when I’m shooting everything is up for scrutiny. Me, my ammo, my gun, my breathing, my trigger control.....
That being said, most of my groups, perhaps 9 out of 10, I assume my screw-up, I could have done better and I forget about them once I’ve shot the next group. So in essence, I throw out groups. This isn’t a better way, IMO, just different than yours.
The other 1 of 10 groups? Those I carefully clip out and save, similar to @Slamfire post below.
Bullsye Pistol Shooters shoot offhand, one handed. This is the course of fire for a ninety round match
And these are the electronic targets of a very good shooter, shooting a 22lr pistol, one handed, off hand, at CMP Talladega
Same guy, different match, a 25 yard reduced composite target with a 22 lr.
a new target is stapled over every ten shots, so this was the base target after all the top targets were pealed off.
Ernst did this during load development at 50 yards. He was using a rest. See if you can do this at 25 yards.
Outstanding post @Slamfire thank you!
I don’t know of any competition from rest, with 22 pistol, either. This may be why there is so little information on what a great or match type accuracy group should be.
Great post @tbs thank you! One of the guns I will be shooting is a new to me S&W Victory so your example is great info for me.
I don’t have a ransom rest. I’ve read some shooters can outshoot a ransom. Am I one such shooter? A guy can dream!
Used to shoot dime sizes groups of ten at 50 feet one handed, unsupported with my Model 41 with a red dot sight. Rested at 25 yds, probably the same.
Accuracy is a fleeting thing, so much depends on the firearm and the ammo, let alone the shooter.
The OP questions can not be answered.
25 yards from a sandbag rest with wrists on bag. This is from my Volquartsen Black Mamba using CCI Blazers. What can I say, they shoot tighter groups out of my guns then the more expensive ammo.
Target picture double posted. Sorry.
I can't hold a rimfire pistol well enough to get anywhere near the inherent accuracy of the pistol, nor its ammunition. I think I can, at times, with a rifle.
With a rifle, ammunition is the limiting factor for accuracy (assuming you dobe the wind perfectly, which is far from a given). Serious rifle shooters lot test all the time, and both Eley and Lapua have indoor shooting ranges at which you can have your rifle lot tested. I am going to say it makes a difference, my lot tested Lapua always produces the highest X counts when I do my part correctly. Lets say lot tested match rimfire groups around 12 to 15 mm at 50 yards. About a dime sized thing. Very tight compared to a pistol. "Good" cheap ammunition will group around an inch to 1.25 at 50 yards. Not accurate enough for a rifle match, but fine for a pistol.
I give the Bullseye shooters grief when I see them shooting Eley Red Box, price from https://www.killoughshootingsports.com/107-eley-ammunition is $1875 a case, before shipping! The limiting factor in Bullseye Pistol shooting is the human. The ten ring is around 3.5 inch.
Sometimes nothing sane you can do will make it go bang, or cycle the slide. That's a score killer.
I am of the opinion that reliability is more important than inherent accuracy, for ammunition used in rimfire Bullseye pistol competitions. I will also say, the more expensive stuff, the real "Pistol Match" is very reliable and very consistent compared to over the counter ammunition. So, you have a trade off, $10.00 a hundred for cheap stuff, or $37.00 for one hundred rounds of the good stuff.
When I talked to Killough Shooting Sports about accuracy out of a pistol, they said that pistol groups will be at least twice as large as a rifle with good match ammunition.
In my opinion, get off the bench and learn to shoot a pistol offhand. The National Forests do not have 600 lb concrete benches every 50 yards so Bench Rest shooters can shoot at game, with sandbags and a rest.
Goofing off,standing unsupported = minute of beer can.
Off the "picnic table" (halfway serious) = end of beer can.
Dead serious,scoped,and majorly supported= drink hole of beer can
10 shots @25.
Thanks @AzShooter1 that's another data point to the growing collection.
I agree 100%. I've owned Colt Woodsman, Browning Buckmark, HiStandard HD Military, HiStandard Supermatic Citation.
Currently I own two Ruger MK II's and IMO, there is no better pound for pound field 22 pistol.
I was shopping for a Model 41 for years, but $1200 gave me pause. What else could I spend $1200 on? Last week I picked up a S&W Victory someone had spent $1300 to setup for their grand kid to do steel challenge. Little use, so grampa sold, I bid low and won for $655. I didn't expect to win.
My routine is to shoot 12 ga hulls on the ground, off hand, out to 50 yards and all distances closer. Make the hulls dance.
I also small game hunt with the Rugers, grouse, head shots only, open sights. For 10 grouse that I see, I end up with 3, long term average. Hence the practice on 12 gauge hulls.
I'm going to shoot this new S&W against my current Ruger's, and since I've not shot pistols off the bench, I thought I should figure out what expectations should be. Hence the thread.
The smallest 10 round group was 3/4” and the most common group size was 1.25” for 10 rounds. Surprisingly, there wasn’t a major difference between iron sights, red dot or 4x scope. There also wasn’t a major difference between Ruger MK II or S&W Victory.
There wasn’t a major difference between ammo brands, but generally, Blazer, CCI Mini-Mags and Federal Auto Match shot best. There was also no major shift in POI between ammo. Ammo shot this time out included
Browning 36 grain Hollow Point 1280 fps
Federal Auto Match 40 grain solid 1200 fps
Remington Thunderbolt 40 grain solid 1255 fps
Blazer 40 grain solid 1255 fps
CCI Mini-Mag 40 grain solid 1235 fps
CCI Velocitor 40 grain hollow point 1435 fps
CCI Stinger 32 grain hollow point 1640 fps
Two misfires with 300 rounds total fired. Both were CCI Stingers in the S&W. A little too much slide spring for the light 32 grain bullet.
I shot the S&W a bunch at 100 yards, off hand at steel, and concluded the dot sight and 1.75# trigger is the way to go!
I've tried it with a revolver and a "hand rifle", but not with anything that would compare to what's in this thread.
At 50yds i can sometimes deliver a solid 1" or less group, but holding a rifle scope at arms length isn't the easiest way to shoot, even supported, and cranked up worse.
With thr 5" 25yd accuracy with opens is 1.5"at best ....mostly closer to did i hit the backer....
Interesting post @LoonWulf . I’ve been thinking, at what barrel lengths does the barrel length sort of “compensate” and “smooth” out the effects of a 22 blowback bolt and powder pressure curve so there isn’t such a big spread in muzzle velocity.
It sounds like 10” and things are starting to smooth out for you.
Im not sure, but that sounds like a reasonable theory.
I do know that with the same optic i can consistently shoot much better groups with the 10" barrel as opposed to the 5". How much of that is simply stability i cant say, but id assume some of it is.
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