Pistol 22 LR from the bench? Accuracy?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Ru4real, Jun 8, 2021.

  1. SimonRL

    SimonRL Member

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    I never have that problem. Walther Q5 SF top, Archon Type B middle, TX22 Competition bottom. This really steams me when this happens, but then I remind myself that the bad guy is going to be brown bread regardless
     

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  2. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

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    How many shots can a guy throw out before it gets shady? If I shoot 10 rounds, can I throw out the worst 5?

    Just kidding, but I understand your sentiment. However, I never throw rounds out of groups, because I believe when I’m shooting everything is up for scrutiny. Me, my ammo, my gun, my breathing, my trigger control.....

    That being said, most of my groups, perhaps 9 out of 10, I assume my screw-up, I could have done better and I forget about them once I’ve shot the next group. So in essence, I throw out groups. This isn’t a better way, IMO, just different than yours.

    The other 1 of 10 groups? Those I carefully clip out and save, similar to @Slamfire post below.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
  3. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    I don't know any competitive sports where shooters are shooting 22 lr pistols from a rest.

    Bullsye Pistol Shooters shoot offhand, one handed. This is the course of fire for a ninety round match

    DiglvlS.jpg


    And these are the electronic targets of a very good shooter, shooting a 22lr pistol, one handed, off hand, at CMP Talladega


    OamtSYz.jpg

    Same guy, different match, a 25 yard reduced composite target with a 22 lr.

    J7nmpNq.jpg

    a new target is stapled over every ten shots, so this was the base target after all the top targets were pealed off.

    Ernst did this during load development at 50 yards. He was using a rest. See if you can do this at 25 yards.

    9uK7aUJ.jpg
     
  4. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

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    Outstanding post @Slamfire thank you!

    I don’t know of any competition from rest, with 22 pistol, either. This may be why there is so little information on what a great or match type accuracy group should be.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
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  5. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

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    Great post @tbs thank you! One of the guns I will be shooting is a new to me S&W Victory so your example is great info for me.
     
  6. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

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    I don’t have a ransom rest. I’ve read some shooters can outshoot a ransom. Am I one such shooter? A guy can dream! :)
     
  7. LNK

    LNK Member

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    Used to shoot dime sizes groups of ten at 50 feet one handed, unsupported with my Model 41 with a red dot sight. Rested at 25 yds, probably the same.
     
  8. Rule3

    Rule3 Member

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    Once again, centerfire pistols or rifles have nothing to do with this thread.

    Accuracy is a fleeting thing, so much depends on the firearm and the ammo, let alone the shooter.
    The OP questions can not be answered.
     
  9. AzShooter1

    AzShooter1 Member

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    Black Mamba Stoner Grips 11 2020 topazed.jpg OpIXj4Zl.jpg OpIXj4Zl.jpg

    25 yards from a sandbag rest with wrists on bag. This is from my Volquartsen Black Mamba using CCI Blazers. What can I say, they shoot tighter groups out of my guns then the more expensive ammo.

    Target picture double posted. Sorry.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  10. Slamfire

    Slamfire Member

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    I can't hold a rimfire pistol well enough to get anywhere near the inherent accuracy of the pistol, nor its ammunition. I think I can, at times, with a rifle.

    With a rifle, ammunition is the limiting factor for accuracy (assuming you dobe the wind perfectly, which is far from a given). Serious rifle shooters lot test all the time, and both Eley and Lapua have indoor shooting ranges at which you can have your rifle lot tested. I am going to say it makes a difference, my lot tested Lapua always produces the highest X counts when I do my part correctly. Lets say lot tested match rimfire groups around 12 to 15 mm at 50 yards. About a dime sized thing. Very tight compared to a pistol. "Good" cheap ammunition will group around an inch to 1.25 at 50 yards. Not accurate enough for a rifle match, but fine for a pistol.

    I give the Bullseye shooters grief when I see them shooting Eley Red Box, price from https://www.killoughshootingsports.com/107-eley-ammunition is $1875 a case, before shipping! The limiting factor in Bullseye Pistol shooting is the human. The ten ring is around 3.5 inch.

    Sometimes nothing sane you can do will make it go bang, or cycle the slide. That's a score killer.


    BNUffjS.jpg


    I am of the opinion that reliability is more important than inherent accuracy, for ammunition used in rimfire Bullseye pistol competitions. I will also say, the more expensive stuff, the real "Pistol Match" is very reliable and very consistent compared to over the counter ammunition. So, you have a trade off, $10.00 a hundred for cheap stuff, or $37.00 for one hundred rounds of the good stuff.

    When I talked to Killough Shooting Sports about accuracy out of a pistol, they said that pistol groups will be at least twice as large as a rifle with good match ammunition.

    In my opinion, get off the bench and learn to shoot a pistol offhand. The National Forests do not have 600 lb concrete benches every 50 yards so Bench Rest shooters can shoot at game, with sandbags and a rest.
     
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  11. sparkyv

    sparkyv Member

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    That's awesome when that happens!
     
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  12. BWS

    BWS Member

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    A very rough guide;

    Goofing off,standing unsupported = minute of beer can.

    Off the "picnic table" (halfway serious) = end of beer can.

    Dead serious,scoped,and majorly supported= drink hole of beer can

    10 shots @25.
     
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  13. 12Bravo20

    12Bravo20 Member

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    I probably should either get a better rest or a different bag for mine. I currently have the Caldwell Rock Junior. Now shooting off hand with my S&W 22A and Kel-Tec CP33 I can hit small pieces of clay birds easily out to 50 yards. I need to take my time to see how accurate they really are with a good rest. Out of those two the Kel-Tec is a little more accurate than the S&W. I m running a Bushnell TRS25 on the 22A and a SwampFox Kingslayer on the CP33.
     
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  14. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

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    Thanks @AzShooter1 that's another data point to the growing collection.
     
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  15. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

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    I agree 100%. I've owned Colt Woodsman, Browning Buckmark, HiStandard HD Military, HiStandard Supermatic Citation.

    Currently I own two Ruger MK II's and IMO, there is no better pound for pound field 22 pistol.

    I was shopping for a Model 41 for years, but $1200 gave me pause. What else could I spend $1200 on? Last week I picked up a S&W Victory someone had spent $1300 to setup for their grand kid to do steel challenge. Little use, so grampa sold, I bid low and won for $655. I didn't expect to win.

    My routine is to shoot 12 ga hulls on the ground, off hand, out to 50 yards and all distances closer. Make the hulls dance.

    I also small game hunt with the Rugers, grouse, head shots only, open sights. For 10 grouse that I see, I end up with 3, long term average. Hence the practice on 12 gauge hulls.

    I'm going to shoot this new S&W against my current Ruger's, and since I've not shot pistols off the bench, I thought I should figure out what expectations should be. Hence the thread.
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2021
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  16. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

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    Well, it was an experience shooting at 25 yards from a rest with a 22 pistol. Compared to my normal 22 pistol off hand shooting, rest shooting wasn’t very fun, felt more like an experiment.

    The smallest 10 round group was 3/4” and the most common group size was 1.25” for 10 rounds. Surprisingly, there wasn’t a major difference between iron sights, red dot or 4x scope. There also wasn’t a major difference between Ruger MK II or S&W Victory.

    There wasn’t a major difference between ammo brands, but generally, Blazer, CCI Mini-Mags and Federal Auto Match shot best. There was also no major shift in POI between ammo. Ammo shot this time out included
    Browning 36 grain Hollow Point 1280 fps
    Federal Auto Match 40 grain solid 1200 fps
    Remington Thunderbolt 40 grain solid 1255 fps
    Blazer 40 grain solid 1255 fps
    CCI Mini-Mag 40 grain solid 1235 fps
    CCI Velocitor 40 grain hollow point 1435 fps
    CCI Stinger 32 grain hollow point 1640 fps

    Two misfires with 300 rounds total fired. Both were CCI Stingers in the S&W. A little too much slide spring for the light 32 grain bullet.

    I shot the S&W a bunch at 100 yards, off hand at steel, and concluded the dot sight and 1.75# trigger is the way to go!

    2F64CFF1-B46D-4D50-A50D-327667DCC09C.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
  17. LNK

    LNK Member

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    Most of the time when I was shooting for score, standard velocity ammo always shot better groups for me. At 50 feet you wouldn't think it would matter, but it did. Even Remington blue label stuff shot well. Though I did have a couple alibis with it.
     
  18. chicharrones

    chicharrones needs more ammo

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    I've tried it with a revolver and a "hand rifle", but not with anything that would compare to what's in this thread.

    long-barrel-neos-sticks.jpg

    single-six-proclass.jpg
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
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  19. LoonWulf
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    LoonWulf Contributing Member

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    Scoped and run on a bipod and bag my 10" barrel on the buckmark is pretty easy to keep on a 1" sticky at 25 yds, even with random shots thst are outside the main group.
    At 50yds i can sometimes deliver a solid 1" or less group, but holding a rifle scope at arms length isn't the easiest way to shoot, even supported, and cranked up worse.

    With thr 5" 25yd accuracy with opens is 1.5"at best ....mostly closer to did i hit the backer....
     
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  20. Ru4real

    Ru4real Member

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    Interesting post @LoonWulf . I’ve been thinking, at what barrel lengths does the barrel length sort of “compensate” and “smooth” out the effects of a 22 blowback bolt and powder pressure curve so there isn’t such a big spread in muzzle velocity.

    It sounds like 10” and things are starting to smooth out for you.
     
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  21. LoonWulf
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    LoonWulf Contributing Member

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    Im not sure, but that sounds like a reasonable theory.

    I do know that with the same optic i can consistently shoot much better groups with the 10" barrel as opposed to the 5". How much of that is simply stability i cant say, but id assume some of it is.
     
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