Pistol caliber carbines
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Robbins290
Member
Ive been looking at a few myself. Can only fin beretta's carbines around here. But would rather have a 9mm that takes the same mag as my pistol
crazysccrmd
Member
I've had two Sub 2000s (still have one) and both worked well, were accurate enough and reliable. Both were Glock models.
AKElroy
Member
Don't laugh, but my Hi-Point has been reliable, accurate and fun. A cheap red dot and a streamlight make it the right medicine for knocking coons off the feeders at night.
Inebriated
Member
I have a Hi Point 995... never failed, mags suck, trigger sucks, rail sucks... But with a red dot, it'll bust clays at 100 all day. I couldn't really ask for more from it.
Robbins290
Member
I also had a hi point 4095. Mine was flawless and accurate. But only 10 rounds made me sell it
TexasPatriot.308
Member
a Hi Point .45 is definitely on my shopping list
BCRider
Member
I don't own either but I've shot both the Keltec and JR. Both are a lot of fun but somewhat rough to run with both tending to puff gasses out the sides. And both have more kick then they should due to the simplicity of their blow back style and how the bolt slams to and fro. Both were in 9mm.
I've also shot a Beretta Storm and some sort of HK that I can't recall the model number. Both of those were smooth and competent to an extreme. So good in fact that they were not at all fun or exciting. It felt just like a .22 rimfire gun. But both can put rounds on target in a small group very quickly.
So for fun and range giggles I'm all over the idea of a Sub2000 or a JR. The slight crudeness of the actions and exhaust gases actually make them a lot more fun to plink with. And both are just fine for accuracy. It's just that the rough edges makes them feel like you're shooting a bigger and more powerful round than you are.
But for competition or home defense if I were choosing a pistol caliber carbine it would be the Beretta Storm or that HK if I could figure out what it was. They are head and shoulders a better "tool" for any sort of serious shooting than the others.
In the end if I were picking a PCC I have to say that the Thureon Defense panders to my own personal tastes far more. I prefer the smaller and cleaner look that isn't trying to look like an AR. And I like that it's all metal. And I like that the magazine isn't in the hand grip. The downside is that for the cost of the TD and even the JR I can put together an AR with a pistol caliber upper. In fact I might be able to do it for less with a bit of shopping.
I've also shot a Beretta Storm and some sort of HK that I can't recall the model number. Both of those were smooth and competent to an extreme. So good in fact that they were not at all fun or exciting. It felt just like a .22 rimfire gun. But both can put rounds on target in a small group very quickly.
So for fun and range giggles I'm all over the idea of a Sub2000 or a JR. The slight crudeness of the actions and exhaust gases actually make them a lot more fun to plink with. And both are just fine for accuracy. It's just that the rough edges makes them feel like you're shooting a bigger and more powerful round than you are.
But for competition or home defense if I were choosing a pistol caliber carbine it would be the Beretta Storm or that HK if I could figure out what it was. They are head and shoulders a better "tool" for any sort of serious shooting than the others.
In the end if I were picking a PCC I have to say that the Thureon Defense panders to my own personal tastes far more. I prefer the smaller and cleaner look that isn't trying to look like an AR. And I like that it's all metal. And I like that the magazine isn't in the hand grip. The downside is that for the cost of the TD and even the JR I can put together an AR with a pistol caliber upper. In fact I might be able to do it for less with a bit of shopping.
I've really been enjoying PCC's. I've never shot either you are looking at. I had researched the JRs and was not impressed with reports on the earlier ones especially for the prices. I have been happy with the Hi Points although disappointed with their choices in magazines. I think if they went with standard 1911 mags for the .45 sales would more than double. There has to be existing popular mags that could have worked for the 9s and 40s also.
What purpose will your PCC be filling ?
What purpose will your PCC be filling ?
Panzerschwein
member
I'd get the Beretta Cx4 Storm.
It is in use with some police departments and is a very high quality and reliable PCC. It can take 30 round Beretta 92 magazines, very cool gun.
It is in use with some police departments and is a very high quality and reliable PCC. It can take 30 round Beretta 92 magazines, very cool gun.
chris in va
Member
I've had my Beretta about a year now, having owned a HiPoint previously.
It's absurdly simple to fully break down for cleaning, is lightweight, takes readily available mags and has intuitive controls. It is far above the HiPoint in quality of materials and design.
Negatives? Plastic trigger group. This surprised me, I expected at least a steel sear or something. It seems to work well though. Sierra Papa sells an aftermarket upgrade but the stock trigger is fine for its intended purpose.
I understand the need to save a couple hundred $ by considering the KelTec, but it's seriously worth it.
Now if you have a Glock pistol, you may be better served getting a MechTech upper instead, now that the BATFE has 'approved' the conversion process.
It's absurdly simple to fully break down for cleaning, is lightweight, takes readily available mags and has intuitive controls. It is far above the HiPoint in quality of materials and design.
Negatives? Plastic trigger group. This surprised me, I expected at least a steel sear or something. It seems to work well though. Sierra Papa sells an aftermarket upgrade but the stock trigger is fine for its intended purpose.
I understand the need to save a couple hundred $ by considering the KelTec, but it's seriously worth it.
Now if you have a Glock pistol, you may be better served getting a MechTech upper instead, now that the BATFE has 'approved' the conversion process.
Phaedrus/69
Member
I love PCCs! I have an HK USC in .45 ACP and a Beretta Storm in 9mm. They're a lot of fun to shoot and both are accurate and reliable. The Storm is a great deal, too. Mine is a 9mm and cost me around $650 IIRC. It's set up to take Beretta 92 mags which are cheap, reliable and very common. The extended MecGars are only $25 and I have a couple of the factory 30 round Beretta mags. While a PCC isn't as potent as a 5.56 I can probably get the job done with 30 rounds of 147gr Federal HST.
zerobarrier
Contributing Member
I love my CX4 in 9mm. I have shot the sub2000 and hi point, both are fine but never felt the best to me. The hi point is big and bulky and the sub2000 seemed flimsy to me. Now if you can afford a HK MP5, get that because it is awesome, my friend has one and it is great.
As for my CX4 there are upgrades to customize it if you want or just use it stock. The trigger is quite heavy 8+ lbs which I don't mind because this is not a long range precision rifle, I use it as a short range, <100yards, plinker. It functions great and I never had a problem for it. They can take either 92 or px4 mags, depending on which magwell the rifle comes with. You can change the magwell to take one or the other, I like the 92 because of the 30rd mags.
This was mine before I made some other mods to it
This is it now, except I put a burris fastfire 3 on it and that red dot is very nice on the rifle.
As for my CX4 there are upgrades to customize it if you want or just use it stock. The trigger is quite heavy 8+ lbs which I don't mind because this is not a long range precision rifle, I use it as a short range, <100yards, plinker. It functions great and I never had a problem for it. They can take either 92 or px4 mags, depending on which magwell the rifle comes with. You can change the magwell to take one or the other, I like the 92 because of the 30rd mags.
This was mine before I made some other mods to it
This is it now, except I put a burris fastfire 3 on it and that red dot is very nice on the rifle.
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Phaedrus/69
Member
Nice! I'm on the fence about SBR'ing my Storm. It's already very short and only about 5" of barrel sticks out of the frame so I couldn't shorten it much. But cut down and threaded it would be almost the same length suppressed as it is now stock.
jonnyc
Member
I have a HP995, and two of my regular shooting buddies have a Beretta and a Sub-K. From pretty extensive experience with all three, I have the following observations:
-I hate the Sub-K and its awful cheek weld. Might be great for stuffing under your car seat, but I would never get one.
-The Beretta is an awesome piece of equipment. If I had a spare $600+, and another $200+ to replace the horrible trigger, I would probably get one.
-Other than the magazine limitation, the HP995 is the best of the three. The older 995 in an ATI stock has a just about perfect feel. It is at least as accurate and reliable as the Beretta, and believe it or not, the trigger is 10x better than the stock Beretta trigger.
For a third of the price of a CX4, I would get the HP995 and a good bunch of spare mags.
-I hate the Sub-K and its awful cheek weld. Might be great for stuffing under your car seat, but I would never get one.
-The Beretta is an awesome piece of equipment. If I had a spare $600+, and another $200+ to replace the horrible trigger, I would probably get one.
-Other than the magazine limitation, the HP995 is the best of the three. The older 995 in an ATI stock has a just about perfect feel. It is at least as accurate and reliable as the Beretta, and believe it or not, the trigger is 10x better than the stock Beretta trigger.
For a third of the price of a CX4, I would get the HP995 and a good bunch of spare mags.
I fired a few magazines through a CX4, and it left an unpleasant impression on me. It was my first time shooting a pcc, and the recoil was more than I was expecting. I probably would have enjoyed it better if it had an optic on it. But I haven't fired one since, perhaps I would like it better now that I have more experience.
They are ungodly expensive, but an HK, or HK clone would of course be the best option. POF is importing a licensed MP5 pistol for just north of $1,400 now, which is probably the best deal you could find if you went the HK route.
They are ungodly expensive, but an HK, or HK clone would of course be the best option. POF is importing a licensed MP5 pistol for just north of $1,400 now, which is probably the best deal you could find if you went the HK route.
I have heard many people say they love their high point carbines. I just cant go for the small mags.
Im looking for a Glock version of the sub2000. Other than that I would go the HK rout. Possibly the beretta if there are better aftermarket stocks.
Im looking for a Glock version of the sub2000. Other than that I would go the HK rout. Possibly the beretta if there are better aftermarket stocks.
JFrame
Member
Every time I disabuse myself of the notion of getting a semiauto PCC -- one of these threads comes up...
I've thought from time to time about getting a CX4 to pair up with my PX4...
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I've thought from time to time about getting a CX4 to pair up with my PX4...
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dusty14u
Member
I will stick with my S2K. Nothing else folds up and fits in my scooter saddle bags or my laptop bag. Mine has been been totally reliable and it takes Glock mags. Recoil has been a non-issue as I have never noticed it at all. The only thing I find odd is how quiet it is when I shoot it.
I've got a Colt 9mm AR15. I like it quite a bit. It is a good training tool and l can shoot it at indoor ranges or short firinglines that won't allow rifle rounds. Also can be used on steel without beating it up. I've noticed new shooters don't mind it as much as my 5.56 rifle since it has so much less blast. I believe Lone Wolf makes one that takes Glock magazines now too. Being that they still use mostly AR components, they are very customizable. Downside is that the AR derivatives tend to cost a good bit more than many of the other 9mm carbines out there. I've enjoyed mine though and don't regret buying it though.
My ear trouble (tinnitus) is so bad that I can't handle the noise of .223 or even a magnum revolver, so I'm looking to get back into the PCC game.
I was about to pull the trigger on a Ruger 77/357, but with all the reports of jamming, I decided against it.
I've owned a Ruger PC-9 and an Olympic AR style 9mm.
The Ruger was very reliable, but had very heavy recoil for 9mm. I think it was because of the extremely heavy bolt, it extends into the forearm and is about half the weight of the gun.
The Oly had far less recoil, but the modified Sten gun mags were very expensive during the AWB. The one magazine I had came a little rusty inside and never operated quite right, the follower would bind.
I was looking at a nice Colt 9mm at my LGS, but I don't want a gun marked LE/military only.
The new Stag Arms model 9/9T look like fun, but no reviews yet.
I think I'll get a CMMG AR if I can afford it, and if not, the Beretta Storm.
I have a lot of 9mm components that need a home.
I was about to pull the trigger on a Ruger 77/357, but with all the reports of jamming, I decided against it.
I've owned a Ruger PC-9 and an Olympic AR style 9mm.
The Ruger was very reliable, but had very heavy recoil for 9mm. I think it was because of the extremely heavy bolt, it extends into the forearm and is about half the weight of the gun.
The Oly had far less recoil, but the modified Sten gun mags were very expensive during the AWB. The one magazine I had came a little rusty inside and never operated quite right, the follower would bind.
I was looking at a nice Colt 9mm at my LGS, but I don't want a gun marked LE/military only.
The new Stag Arms model 9/9T look like fun, but no reviews yet.
I think I'll get a CMMG AR if I can afford it, and if not, the Beretta Storm.
I have a lot of 9mm components that need a home.
I own an old HP995
a new 995 and a 4095. I also own a Kel-Tech sub 2000 in 9mm. I like all of them. The Hi-points have never given me a problem. The Kel-Tech on the other hand gave me fits at first. Long story short, I fixed the problems myself and now love the gun. All 4 of the guns are more accurate than they ought to be for what they cost. They are all a lot of fun to shoot. I really wish HP would get over their fear of making anything that isn't California compliant.
In addition to the other guns already mentioned, there are at least 2 that haven't been. The first is the new offering from Taurus, the CT9 and CT40. The other gun that I have just become aware of is the Aero Survival Rifle from TNWfirearms.com. It comes in 3 flavors, 9mm, 40 S&W and 45ACP. I have not shot any of these but I am suddenly interested in the Aero survival rifle. They have a package deal that includes all 3 calibers and a back pack to keep it all in for $1299.00. The basic gun is $799.00. You could certainly build a PCC AR-15 for that but you couldn't build a 3 caliber gun for $1300.00, at least I don't think you could.
a new 995 and a 4095. I also own a Kel-Tech sub 2000 in 9mm. I like all of them. The Hi-points have never given me a problem. The Kel-Tech on the other hand gave me fits at first. Long story short, I fixed the problems myself and now love the gun. All 4 of the guns are more accurate than they ought to be for what they cost. They are all a lot of fun to shoot. I really wish HP would get over their fear of making anything that isn't California compliant.
In addition to the other guns already mentioned, there are at least 2 that haven't been. The first is the new offering from Taurus, the CT9 and CT40. The other gun that I have just become aware of is the Aero Survival Rifle from TNWfirearms.com. It comes in 3 flavors, 9mm, 40 S&W and 45ACP. I have not shot any of these but I am suddenly interested in the Aero survival rifle. They have a package deal that includes all 3 calibers and a back pack to keep it all in for $1299.00. The basic gun is $799.00. You could certainly build a PCC AR-15 for that but you couldn't build a 3 caliber gun for $1300.00, at least I don't think you could.
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