Pistol Purchase In A Gun Shop

[DetBrowning]

To follow up for informational purposes and then the Admin may close the thread if they like.
This Browning High Power made in 1975 didn't work the first time I operated it. The problem was the safety kept engaging during the first magazine somewhere around the 5th or 6th round.
The owner (which is a reasonably okay guy) told me I was holding the pistol incorrectly. Now I may not know a ton about guns, however, I was in the NYPD for 20 years and fired many guns.
The owner took me to his range (which I had to pay $25 guest fee) and he said to hold the pistol lower on the grip...what BS!
As it turns out I took it to a gunsmith (Brilliant guy) who took it apart and found that the safety detent had been replaced with an incorrect part. ($100 repair and lesson learned)
Thank you all for your continued input and guidance.

 

[Spats McGee]

Welcome to THR, @DetBrowning.

Please don't take offense, but I agree with the others who have said it's a little naïve. And bear in mind that each and every one of us was just as naïve, at some point in time. Buying a used gun is not any different than buying any other used machine. I'm not trying to discourage you from buying used, lots of us do that all the time. And people have done that since time immemorial. But it certainly helps if you have enough knowledge about the machine you're buying to be able to diagnose it if something goes wrong, or at least know someone you can take it to for diagnosis.

 

[Spats McGee]

Let me also add, you have a BHP and I'm a little jealous!

 

[rust collector]

I am just curious. Was the previous owner able at the range to make the pistol function properly by holding it lower on the grip? I would have asked him to demonstrate by shooting a couple magazines. Perhaps if he could not it would put him in the position of offering some kind of adjustment. If he refused to try, that would tell me something about his knowledge of the problem.

Most of us have had expensive lessons on gun trades, so please don't take our responses as criticism. It is learning by doing. My LGS is owned by a gunsmith, but he doesn't have time to fire every gun that comes through. I ask what the story is behind the gun I am looking at, is it local, do these guns have anything I should be cautious about (such as dry firing), and if parts are available. Satisfaction is not guaranteed, but the guy would like to sell me more guns in the future so wants to make me happy.

This is an opportunity to learn from what has happened to others, so the thread serves a useful purpose. If we can keep it positive, we may learn more. No reason to close at this point, IMO.

 

[Jim Watson]

Back in Century XX the Pawn & Gun here had The Stump.
A tree stump hauled into the stock room.
The pawnbroker would accept no gun on pawn or trade until he had fired it into The Stump.

 

[scaatylobo]

Am I being naive to believe that if I purchase a previously owned pistol in a seemingly reputable gun-shop that it is in serviceable condition?
That it operated properly as designed and that no parts are broken internally or requiring repair?
Thank you all for your input
I should have clarified this, the pistol was a 1975 Browning High Power, the way the owner described it was excellent condition, some stippling on one side near the muzzle and a great pistol for $1300. As a newbie I'm learning and will try and be better with my postings.
Bill

I would at the very least ask the owner to fix the gun you JUST PURCHASED !.

And yes,I have never seen any gun that was not marked as not working,for sale as if it were.

At the very least the owner should be HIGHLIGHTED as one that sells guns that do not work !!.

AND one that I would never buy from again.

I have been purchasing long arms and handguns for 58 years.

 

[bearcreek]

Back in Century XX the Pawn & Gun here had The Stump.
A tree stump hauled into the stock room.
The pawnbroker would accept no gun on pawn or trade until he had fired it into The Stump.

From the OP's description, it doesn't sound like doing that would have revealed the problem. He said it only showed up around the 5-6th rd.

 

[HKGuns]

Your additional details tells me you should probably find someone else to deal with in the future. But, I'd be very happy with a 1975 BHP and chalk it up to a lesson learned.

 

[DetBrowning]

I am just curious. Was the previous owner able at the range to make the pistol function properly by holding it lower on the grip? I would have asked him to demonstrate by shooting a couple magazines. Perhaps if he could not it would put him in the position of offering some kind of adjustment. If he refused to try, that would tell me something about his knowledge of the problem.

Most of us have had expensive lessons on gun trades, so please don't take our responses as criticism. It is learning by doing. My LGS is owned by a gunsmith, but he doesn't have time to fire every gun that comes through. I ask what the story is behind the gun I am looking at, is it local, do these guns have anything I should be cautious about (such as dry firing), and if parts are available. Satisfaction is not guaranteed, but the guy would like to sell me more guns in the future so wants to make me happy.

This is an opportunity to learn from what has happened to others, so the thread serves a useful purpose. If we can keep it positive, we may learn more. No reason to close at this point, IMO.

Yes holding it improperly worked for a bit, but I believe the vibration and the faulty detent caused the safety to move up in the safe position.
As been said, I learned a valuable lesson, thank you all

 

[SterlingBullet]

Back in Century XX the Pawn & Gun here had The Stump.
A tree stump hauled into the stock room.
The pawnbroker would accept no gun on pawn or trade until he had fired it into The Stump.

I see a movie in this:
Forest Stump - Life is like a used gun, ya never know what ya get until ya shoot into the stump.

 

[doubleh]

I have only known 2 gunshops that fired used guns to check function. One had his license yanked after he got drunk and seriously beat up his wife. The other would fire 3 rounds into a box of dirt he kept in his back room to make sure any used 22 rimfire functioned before any paper work was done. He retired lots of years ago and you are on your own with any used gun you purchase at any of the region's gunshops today.

 

[LimaCharlie]

It all depends on the LGS. I only buy used guns from one LGS. The owner is a gunsmith and they stand behind every gun they sell. They will repair it or refund you money.

 

[CapnMac]

"Naive" might be a bit harsh. Buying used anything thing is very much a caveat emptor situation.

And, this is complicated territory, as opinions and experience all vary.

"Ran when parked" is basically a running cliche in the motor vehicle sphere. And having a gunsmith in a shop is a bit like having a certified mechanic review a vehicle.
That our thread here involves a GP-35 does not help reduce the complexities here. The GPs have been around for many years, and far too many folk imagine that "simple" things with "fix" or "improve" them. And, that magazine safety has invited no small end of meddling with the innards on a given HP.

Does buying in a gun shop "mean anything." That's likely going to rely upon the reputation of the shop in question. It will also matter on how concerned the shop is about their reputation. Both of those vary, and not necessarily predictably. For my 2¢, it's good to develop a relationship withan LGS in smaller things, ammo, accessories, etc., before jumping into a firearms purchase. (This is easy advice to give, harder to cleave to; and I'm guilty of not following my own advise.)

Welcome to THR.

 

[Dave DeLaurant]

My personal policy is that if I've handled the used gun before purchase, missed something obvious and discovered a problem later, it's on me. I don't do business with gunshops that won't let me field strip a used gun before purchase, and I have been known to bring a screwdriver with me. I've purchased a lot of used firearms and can't recall being burned -- since I'm a pessimist at the best of times, more often I'm pleasantly surprised.

However, buying a gun from even a very reputable dealer based on online photos is a definite crapshoot. I've gradually learned just how easy it is to miss important things. I buy from Simpsons a lot and they are good guys, but they can miss stuff. Things like a stuck case in a chamber of one rifle, rust pitting below the stock line in another and, in one weird situation, an 8mm 1892 French. Ordnance revolver that had had one chamber reamed to accept a 9x19 blank cartridge (I learned that the cylinder on this particular model is usually a non-serialized and drop-in replacement part.)

Some surprises were no big deal and easily fixed by me and others required some negotiation and price adjustment, but so far no actual returns. I'm still happy dealing with Simpsons, and I think both parties need to understand that this can and does sometimes happen. On the flipside, a few other deals from Simpsons were unexpected bargains because they missed something that they could have charged considerably more for. Like when I bought an ERMA/Mauser .22 conversion unit at a knockdown price and got a second unit basically thrown in for free because they didn't recognize it as such.

 

[Jim Watson]

Anecdote Alert.

I once bought a rifle that would not handle my ammo. Dealer refunded.
I once bought a pistol that would not handle any ammo. Dealer gave store credit.
I once bought a rifle that was not in the caliber marked, it had been rebored. Dealer gave me a tang sight.

My FLG is rather prone to get in over his head and end up doing a good deal of extra work to complete a job... which he does not charge for.

 

[wayneinFL]

To follow up for informational purposes and then the Admin may close the thread if they like.
This Browning High Power made in 1975 didn't work the first time I operated it. The problem was the safety kept engaging during the first magazine somewhere around the 5th or 6th round.
The owner (which is a reasonably okay guy) told me I was holding the pistol incorrectly. Now I may not know a ton about guns, however, I was in the NYPD for 20 years and fired many guns.
The owner took me to his range (which I had to pay $25 guest fee) and he said to hold the pistol lower on the grip...what BS!
As it turns out I took it to a gunsmith (Brilliant guy) who took it apart and found that the safety detent had been replaced with an incorrect part. ($100 repair and lesson learned)
Thank you all for your continued input and guidance.

I have a similar story with a much less expensive pistol, probably 20 years ago. I bought it at a shop in Fort Lauderdale when I was working down there. It was a commercial Star 380. The shop that had a guarantee posted on signs throughout the store.

The safety would engage randomly while firing. I stopped by on my lunch break, found the clerk who had sold it to me, and he told me I was holding the pistol wrong.

I came back the following week, and fired it on the range my cheap Remington JHPs from Walmart. Showed the salesman the issue. He fired the gun and had the same problem. He told me the gun wasn't made to take hollow points. What? Okay. So I purchased their FMJ range ammunition and called him back over. Still doing it. He made an excuse and didn't honor the guarantee.

I spent less money on the gunsmith that than I spent trying to win the argument with the salesman. Learned my lesson.

 

[rust collector]

Yes.

Why? If it is because of the other reasons given in other responses, why bother? If there is a different reason, why not elaborate?

 

[tactikel]

I advise you to ask (when evaluating the pistol) are you saying that this pistol functions properly? just about any problem can be solved by: deep cleaning, new springs, ammo change, lube changes, polishing by a gunsmith.

 

[herrwalther]

I worked in a gun shop long enough to know that some places look at a used firearm just long enough to price it for resale. I recall a customer selling a Winchester 1100 shotgun to a store and it had a for sale tag and price on it before the customer's truck was even out of the parking lot. After experiences like that, I check out firearms as best I can before I pickup a pen for the 4473 form. And then more if it gets home to my work bench.

 

[WVGunman]

Am I being naive to believe that if I purchase a previously owned pistol in a seemingly reputable gun-shop that it is in serviceable condition?
That it operated properly as designed and that no parts are broken internally or requiring repair?
Thank you all for your input
I should have clarified this, the pistol was a 1975 Browning High Power, the way the owner described it was excellent condition, some stippling on one side near the muzzle and a great pistol for $1300.

No, not naive. However, the definition of "serviceable" is up for grabs. And a 48-year-old Hi-Power is definitely worth going over closely. (Nor do I think it's worth shelling out $1,300 for, whatever the book value may be, but you do you. LOTS of really good, brand-new guns can be had for less than that.)
Some places might say a gun is "serviceable" if it merely functions. The thing may be shot out, with worn rifling, weak springs, lots of holster wear, etc. Maybe it can't hit the broad side of a barn, but it still functions, so it is "serviceable." This is where it pays to know your stuff, or have a friend who does. Unfortunately, the best way to learn is to buy a few losers over the years.

 

[wesmonster]

This where a good gun shop, and having a good relationship with the shop owner comes into play. The few times I've had issues with used firearms the shop I bought it from offered to either fix it for free or give me store credit for something else. But I always assume 'As Is' when buying used. A sale on a used firearm does not come with a warranty.

On any firearm almost 50 years old, be ready for surprises.

 

[Jim Watson]

My most convenient store also runs a range. I would hold out for a test fire of a used gun I was serious about.

 

[Riomouse911]

OP, it sounds like you:

A) answered your own question when the issue with your BHP manifested itself when fired on the range.

B) learned a lesson that not all sellers are on the level. Some gun stores are shady (or shoddy!) and let guns get sold that are lemons. Some private sellers tinker with guns (like yours) and then try to pass off Bubba’s work to the next buyer.

C) found the fix, for $100, that will keep your Hi Power running.

Caveat Emptor on all gun purchases is the best defense against bringing home a problem.

Funny thing about my grip and my new SA-35 (BJP clone). My grip is high, and during the first couple of times shooting the gun I kept having an issue where the trigger pull weight would get heavier as I was shooting. I finally figured out that I was slowly pushing the safety lever up and it was affecting the trigger pull. I did have to alter my grip a little bit and must remain cognizant of it or I will repeat the issue I was causing.

Let us know how your Hi Power shoots for you on the range.

Stay safe.

 

[TomJ]

This doesn't apply to the OP's gun, but if buying used I try to buy a gun who's manufacturer's warranty follows the gun. I had been wanting a Nighthawk Custom Talon but couldn't swing the $4000 price for a new one. I came across a used one for $1999 on Guns.com, and after confirming with Nighthawk Custom that the gun was warrantied for life regardless of it being bought used I took a chance on it. It looks like it's a new gun and functions perfectly. Ruger is another manufacturer that warranties their guns even if bought used. I'm sure there are others.

 

[Mosin77]

Friend came to me looking for a gun. I sold him a ruger mini 14 which seemed pretty nice. A few months later he told me he took it to the range and it exploded in a million pieces. I wasn’t there, I don’t know what happened… but I gather this thing just disassembled itself on the first shot.

Same friend was looking at a savage 29a pump 22. I said “that’s a very nice rifle you should buy it.” He kept hemming and hawing, this went on for months. finally I got tired of seeing the thing and bought it myself. I took it to the range… it wouldn’t feed. Jam after jam. I felt bad after the Ruger, was really happy he didn’t take my advice and get the savage (which was very nice condition) and end up with two duds.

Conclusion: any gun new or used can have issues.