Piston AR uppers

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Foxtrot427

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Does anyone have a full list of all the piston operated AR-15 uppers available? I know POF and LW make them and HK but not for civis. Both for $1000+ which is a shame. Why cant they be made cheaper?
 
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If they were cheaper, then people might actually use gas oprods, and see how much better their AR's could be :rolleyes: . It's a conspiracy.

Actually, it's probably the law of supply and demand.
 
I know POS and LW make them
Click to expand...

POS? Hilarious freudian slip.

Colt has one too, no idea if it'll see civy hands.

Still don't understand the big hoopla about them, but whatever. My AR's all go bang, without that magical piston.
 
Gas piston ARs currently available for sale:
Patriot Ordnance Factory (also sold by DSA and DPMS)
Allan Zitta
Kurts Kustom Firearms
Leitner-Wise

Gas pistons made but not currently sold on civilian market:
H&K 416
Colt M5

POF is probably the most widespread gas-piston out there right now; but changes the rail height so that all your optic and sight accessories mount higher than designed.

LW has a nice, innovative system; but apparently resorted to troll accounts and outright slandering of other competitor's products at AR15.com to sell it - which combined with their failure to deliver products (LW .22LR upper) in the past makes me uneasy.

At the end of the day, realize that you don't get something for nothing. A gas piston doesn't magically eliminate problems from the rifle; it just trades one set of problems for a different set.
 
Hahaha POS to POF! Now fixed.


I never knew KKF had a piston upper. They dont have prices anywhere. I like the POF but they as well as the LW cost so much money. The POF is especially neat to me because it looks like it comes with some extra rails and junk. But I hear that handguard is gigantic. But they are trying to fix it right?
 
Taiwan's Type 65 series uses a gas piston upper that can be mated to an AR15/M16 lower. Unfortunately, no has found a way to import them yet.
 
Pros? Well...cleaner action. That's about it.


Cons? More weight. More parts that can break. Supposedly less accurate all things being equal.


Piston uppers for AR's are a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. If the AR's problem was carbon fouling getting blown back into the action - there wouldn't be AR's going 1,000's of rounds without cleaning. I've put 500rds of filthy Wolf through mine no cleaning with no issues, while that is NOT a torture test by any stretch of the imagination - that's 2x more than any "load out" I'd ever carry for it or shoot, and it's the filthiest stuff. So whatever this reliability problem is - it isn't the gas system, and the piston AR is likely to have the same problem as the gas AR. It is the magazines. If you have a bad magazine, you get the dreaded double feed or misfeed. Magazines, like the gas system, are another easy-and-cheap-to-mass-produce solution that also focuses on light weight.



** speaking about more weight. It's kind of funny. Stoner's design was meant to be LIGHTWEIGHT. As lightweight as possible. That's why there's no piston system. At least the primary reason. No piston system also makes for cheaper production.

It's funny to see a rifle that is designed with a particular gas system for the ultimate goal of weight savings have tons of tactical-ninja garbage mounted to it, as well as the use of HBAR barrels, thus negating the weight savings completely. It isn't uncommon for most "carbine" AR's to weigh in a 8lbs. Fully equipped with the tactical-ninja junk - 9 to 9.5lbs. That's if the user spends big $$$ on the lightweight rails and gizmos. If you're a bubba and buy the lower cost stuff, the AR will be 11lbs.

Jeesh! If that's the case, then the biggest strike against the M14 no longer exists. We've gone in a circle.


Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread on gadets, but the gas system of the AR is fundamentally a weight savings design more than anything else. You trade filth for lightness.
 
I do not seem to understand why every one thinks that these piston uppers are so expensive. Take a quality chrome lined 16" upper w/o BCG, around $400 dollars, add a $180 Chromed BCG, a $280 FF rail system, throw in some rail covers, get the barrel fluted at a gunsmith, and how much are you really spending? The POF in my opinion is a steal at the price it goes for. No I am not affiliated with POF in anyway.
 
The relatively plain bushy upper is the cheapest at a high $995. Pretty nice though because you could build a whole rifle with that for $1200 +/- Wouldnt the piston uppers be easier to clean as well as making less to clean? How much more could it weigh?
 
I wanted to buy an approx. 10" upper.
Like "LoadedDrum" I priced complete uppers from several well known builders and realized that the price was approx. the same as one of these piston uppers. And even more attractive was the fact that a local store has the POF uppers in stock. So, to the store I went.
Let me pause here for an intermission: I own a number of AR15s. I have fired thousands upon thousands of rounds through them. I never had any kind of reliability issue with them. I was in the military and was issued an M16 and was stationed in the desert and never had a reliability issue with the M16. I am another one of these guys that thinks this piston upper is an answer for a problem that doesn't exist.
So, why would I buy one ? Well, as I said, they cost about the same, they were available locally and I could have one that day. Plus I could find out what all the fuss is about and post on threads like this one with first hand knowlege of the subject.
So, I got to the store and they had a display of about 4-5 of these upppers. They had one that was about 10". But, I didn't like anything about it. One of the cool things about the AR15 is that I can pick just about every component part of it. I didn't like the hardware on this upper and I couldn't change it out. I also thought the upper looked cheap to me.
Long story even longer, I didn't buy it. It didn't pull my chain.
 
FYI, I believe the Bushmaster offering is made by POF as well.

I'm holding off on anymore 223s until I get my hands on a Sig 556.


Cheers,
B.
 
The relatively plain bushy upper is the cheapest at a high $995. Pretty nice though because you could build a whole rifle with that for $1200 +/- Wouldnt the piston uppers be easier to clean as well as making less to clean? How much more could it weigh?
Click to expand...
It's actually cheaper to order from POF-USA itself. Plus you get the bonus of having it built the way YOU want it. Just be prepared to wait a while. As far as cleaning goes, it's a bit of a zero-sum game. Yes, the bolt group and receiver halfs stay clean. But you now have to clean the piston system (FYI, I recommend a green scrubbing pad to clean the piston itself.)

Mike
 
The only thing Bushmaster offers that I dislike more than piston uppers is that damn California top-loader rifle that Cali laws forced them to engineer.
 
I don't have any experience with the AR platform, so I will just observe and take what I can from this.

I do have a Kalashnikov. I know I can put 3 cases of Wolf through it and dump sand in the receiver, and it will not only remain reliable, but also accurate enough to put rounds COM out to about 300 yards. In fact, the only way to get it to malfunction is to throw it in its afermentioned condition into a river until the mag fills up with silt. Then it will FTF about two times every 30 round magazine. The Kalashnikov magazines are reportedly much tougher and more reliable than the AR mags, but would still appear to be the weak link of the system. Or at least one of them. The AK sights suck pretty bad too.

I do know that I would rather the crap be kept in a gas tube, rather than in the receiver. The AK gets relatively little fouling in the receiver and I would still rather clean the gas tube every day of the week and twice on Sundays rather than the receiver. Anyways, it was not my intention to turn this into yet another AK vs. AR flame war, as Lord knows we've had enough of those. I was just speaking from what I have experience with.

Interesting discussion.
 
I don't have any experience with the AR platform, so I will just observe and take what I can from this.

I do have a Kalashnikov. I know I can put 3 cases of Wolf through it and dump sand in the receiver, and it will not only remain reliable, but also accurate enough to put rounds COM out to about 300 yards. In fact, the only way to get it to malfunction is to throw it in its afermentioned condition into a river until the mag fills up with silt. Then it will FTF about two times every 30 round magazine. The Kalashnikov magazines are reportedly much tougher and more reliable than the AR mags, but would still appear to be the weak link of the system. Or at least one of them. The AK sights suck pretty bad too.

I do know that I would rather the crap be kept in a gas tube, rather than in the receiver. The AK gets relatively little fouling in the receiver and I would still rather clean the gas tube every day of the week and twice on Sundays rather than the receiver. Anyways, it was not my intention to turn this into yet another AK vs. AR flame war, as Lord knows we've had enough of those. I was just speaking from what I have experience with.

Interesting discussion.
Click to expand...

I like both and use both, however there are alot of tough plastic/steel magazines out there now. Standard aluminium mags stink because they get dented fairly easy making the follower stick. Honestly I can't imagine them being weaker than the best steel AK mags, at least with the PMAG, HK, or camenga easymag.

Also the nice thing about the AR is that it can have the piston system while being made of aluminium. The AK as far as I know needs to be made out of steel so that it can deal with its aggressive action. With the piston very little needs to be done about the receiver; and even without the piston, its not that bad. Of course with the ak its just a matter of taking off the cover and piston, but honestly, that is about as easy as it can get with cleaning any semi-auto rifle.
 
You DO realize you CAN convert any upper to piston operation right? for less than 400$ too. Why not just choose the exact upper you want,or better yet build it yourself so you can assemble it as piston instead of direct impingment and having duplicate parts?
 
here ya go

Para USA is doing some clever stuff with this new model

rifle_300dlarge.jpg


http://www.para-usa.com/new/product_rifle.php

the article states that once the rifle goes into full production, they should be selling the uppers seperate.
 
The other downside of piston uppers for the AR is that it locks you into a proprietary design. I can buy a replacement gas tube or bolt from any one of a number of vendors. That's not true of gas piston conversions. Ask a Rhino conversion guy where they get new gas pistons from.

I don't believe that the gas piston solves any real problem with the AR type rifle. You'd have to work hard to carry enough ammo to shoot enough to cause an AR to quit working because of gas residue fouling the the receiver. OTOH, external grit, mud, or sand can cause the rifle to quit. How exactly does the gas piston conversion help there? It doesn't, the AR's long bearing surfaces and tight clearance that make it more vulnerable stoppages caused by dirt aren't changed by any conversion product I've seen.

BSW
 
I researched getting an AR with a piston upper, I looked at everything and
decided to get an upper with a 16" barrel with a mid length gas system instead.

I do have piston driven rifles, but they are piston driven by original design.
 
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