Pit Bull Rampage

[Warren]

Regulation before the fact , of all large dogs, is what is needed.
Not holding the owners up for condemnation after the fact

Wrong and wrong.

Government can't do anything but make the situation worse.

And the owner of a dog that mauls someone should be beaten then sued for his being an idiot.

But I suppose that is more of a legal and political option.

The only strategic or tactical option is for everyone to armed at all times. Kill all such dogs as soon as they show vicious behavior and to make sure that the owners are well aware of what will happen to them if their dogs attack someone.

 

[Mastrogiacomo]

Years ago I worked at a house where a woman owned a part Rot/Doberman female that was all pup, loved to play fetch and was very people friendly. Surprised the Hell out of us because none of us knew what to think before we played with her. A lot also has to do with people who buy dogs and train them to be dangerous and don't reward gentle behavior. If someone wants to own one of these breed, they need to be held accountable if something happens. I think they should also have surprise visits from the animal control officer to see that their home is secure to prevent the dogs from getting out.

 

[joab]

And the owner of a dog that mauls someone should be beaten then sued for his being an idiot.

But I suppose that is more of a legal and political option.

The only strategic or tactical option is for everyone to armed at all times. Kill all such dogs as soon as they show vicious behavior and to make sure that the owners are well aware of what will happen to them if their dogs attack someone.

Will beating the hell out of the dog owners or suing them heal the scars on the little girls face or bring the child back to life,

Why is there so much resistance to simple precautionary regulations such as mandatory fences.

And I thought it was just us evil penile deficient Pit owners that practiced all the macho posturing

 

[Snake Eyes]

Stragedies And Tictacs

Just to contribute something....

I was taught to back away from the attack while "offering" the inside of my left forearm to the charging dog. Cover/shield face with right arm. Hopefully you're wearing a coat or heavy sweatshirt, but in any case the forearm is pretty meaty and tough.

When the dog latches onto your left forearm, you grab a front leg with your left hand and a rear leg with your right (free) hand.

Raise the dog off the ground and bring it down sharply over your rising knee, breaking the dogs back.

Seek medical attention for the forearm bite.

Critiques?

 

[Lupinus]

Just like that - no warning, tail thumping on grass second, charging 125lb (i'm guessing) full-grown rott the next. Stalin leaps up and meets him mid air, 45lbs vs ~125, and they go down in a tangle of snarls and paw punches. I pull stalin back behind me, shove my side into exo, and try to keep myself between the two dogs (which in hind sight was probably risky... but exo seemed much more interested in getting to stalin than me). Mel starts yelling and hitting exo with a CUCUMBER, beating him a whole bunch of times before the dog retreats. mel chases him back into the back yard, apologizing the whole way, saying that "maybe he smells something he doesn't like, he's never like this with any dog, just ask nydia (neighbor) , he plays with her dog all the time

While I will admit I got a laugh out of the image of someone beating an attackin rottie with a cucumber that is NOT how you break up a dog fight. Two dogs are fighting and you get between them even your OWN dog can and often will bite you, when dogs fight they process threat and not nescisarily from who, they just know there is a threat infront of them they will make zero distinction between their owner and the dog they are attacking.

http://leerburg.com/dogfight.htm

I reccomend reading that to learn how to break up a dog fight.

Lupinus can probably vouch for the fact that most of rural and suburban Florida is crawling with Pits. You can't open a newspaper/flier/adbook without finding people breeding and selling them. You see them everywhere.

Yes they are everywhere. I've been looking at breeders too cause I plan to buy a dog and every search no matter what I try always turns up a good bit of pitbull and rottie kennel links.

 

[Warren]

Will beating the hell out of the dog owners or suing them heal the scars on the little girls face or bring the child back to life,

Why is there so much resistance to simple precautionary regulations such as mandatory fences.

And I thought it was just us evil penile deficient Pit owners that practiced all the macho posturing

1. No, but it teaches a lesson.

2. We are way over regulated as it is now, why add more?

3. It's not macho posturing. Vicious dogs of any breed need to be destroyed. Their owners must be made to pay a cost. What is so hard to understand about this. I think the same idea should be applied to DUIs who harm someone, or someone who causes an accident because they were talking on their cell instead of concentrating on their driving, or someone who acts like an idiot and shoots someone.

 

[joab]

No, but it teaches a lesson.

Yes, and lessons after the fact are so much more important

We are way over regulated as it is now, why add more?

Apparently we are not very over regulated or at the very least not effectively regulated. Why add more inefficient regulations on what to do after the fact.

You can already be sued into bankruptcy and imprisoned if it is found that you were negligent.

As has been pointed out most dog owners feel that those repercussions are for people with really bad dogs not theirs

And wouldn't it take some more regulation to be put into effect to start the destroying/banning of so call vicious breeds

Their owners must be made to pay a cost. What is so hard to understand about this.

The fact that you feel that paying money or sending the owner to jail can some how mitigate the injuries done.

 

[roo_ster]

I've taken up walking with my boy in the early AM (0515-0615). My boy is in a jog stroller (12 months old) & I wear my old jungle or leg boots from service to Unlce Sam*. I always bring my Taurus 651 Total Ti snubby in .357mag. I stoke it with Winchester 180gr Partition Gold HP. Not only does POA=POI at 7 yds, but they are very likely to penetrate even a pit bull's skill after the portion forward of the partition does its work.

My course of action in case of an unavoidable attack would be:
1. Interpose self between poochie & boy
2. Launch 2-3 rounds at poochie.
3. If poochie keeps coming (due to my misses or his toughness), I wait to get a contact shot on poochie's skull or boiler room with my remaining rounds (5 rounds, total). I don't expect to have time for a reload.
4. If I am out of rounds and poochie is still full of vim & vigor, I will do my best to choke out the poochie.

In case of multiple poochies, I might be in some trouble.

Snake Eyes has brought up another response that bears some scrutiny. Has anyone else heard of/practiced this technique? I would think it has advantages over choking out the poochie in multiple-dog attacks.

* I don't run, only walk (with a purpose) due to lack of light & rough sidewalks. I have added a 45# rucksack to my back once a week to increase the workout I get. The boots keep my feet tough. I only go a couple of miles most days, but rucksack days (usually Sat AM) get stretched to 4-5 miles. I need to get a better ruck, though.

Just to contribute something....

I was taught to back away from the attack while "offering" the inside of my left forearm to the charging dog. Cover/shield face with right arm. Hopefully you're wearing a coat or heavy sweatshirt, but in any case the forearm is pretty meaty and tough.

When the dog latches onto your left forearm, you grab a front leg with your left hand and a rear leg with your right (free) hand.

Raise the dog off the ground and bring it down sharply over your rising knee, breaking the dogs back.

Seek medical attention for the forearm bite.

Critiques?

 

[Pilgrim]

I was taught to back away from the attack while "offering" the inside of my left forearm to the charging dog. Cover/shield face with right arm. Hopefully you're wearing a coat or heavy sweatshirt, but in any case the forearm is pretty meaty and tough.

When the dog latches onto your left forearm, you grab a front leg with your left hand and a rear leg with your right (free) hand.

Raise the dog off the ground and bring it down sharply over your rising knee, breaking the dogs back.

Seek medical attention for the forearm bite.

Critiques?

Ahhh, how often have you practiced this?

Pilgrim

 

[HD]

the trick can work , BUT you can lose your arm...

I was taught to back away from the attack while "offering" the inside of my left forearm to the charging dog. Cover/shield face with right arm. Hopefully you're wearing a coat or heavy sweatshirt, but in any case the forearm is pretty meaty and tough.

When the dog latches onto your left forearm, you grab a front leg with your left hand and a rear leg with your right (free) hand.

Raise the dog off the ground and bring it down sharply over your rising knee, breaking the dogs back.

Seek medical attention for the forearm bite.

Critiques?

 

[joab]

The forearm trick was one of the techniques taught, minus the back breaker.

I have used a similar trick a couple of times with medium to large dogs.
With your forearm in the dogs mouth grab him by the collar or scruff and force your arm further into the dogs mouth to lessen the leverage of the jaws.

You can either kick the hell out of him at that point or drop with all your weight on your forearm either breaking or dislocating the jaws or at the very least causing a great deal of pain.

Choking a determined dog is very difficult, they will instinctively protect their throat.

I saw a guy grab a Shepard by the tail once and start running backwards in a semi circular path to get him off a meter man.He pulled him until he got to a fence he could vault over.

The dog was trying to turn and chase and bite the guy but was so off balanced that he could not effectively do anything.

Other than the wounded meter reader it was kind of comical

 

[Lupinus]

I saw a guy grab a Shepard by the tail once and start running backwards in a semi circular path to get him off a meter man.He pulled him until he got to a fence he could vault over.

The dog was trying to turn and chase and bite the guy but was so off balanced that he could not effectively do anything.

Other than the wounded meter reader it was kind of comical

If you read the link I posted it discribes basicly the same thing but you do it by the hind legs and lift like a whellbarrow, it keeps the dog under more control and you get a better grip then the tail.

 

[Warren]

Yes, and lessons after the fact are so much more important

Apparently we are not very over regulated or at the very least not effectively regulated. Why add more inefficient regulations on what to do after the fact.

You can already be sued into bankruptcy and imprisoned if it is found that you were negligent.

As has been pointed out most dog owners feel that those repercussions are for people with really bad dogs not theirs

And wouldn't it take some more regulation to be put into effect to start the destroying/banning of so call vicious breeds


The fact that you feel that paying money or sending the owner to jail can some how mitigate the injuries done.

Regardless of preventitive measures dog attacks are going to continue. No amount of government regulation is going to stop them. Therefore individuals must be allowed to apply their own justice to the situation.

 

[joab]

If you read the link I posted it discribes basicly the same thing but you do it by the hind legs and lift like a whellbarrow, it keeps the dog under more control and you get a better grip then the tail.

I think the tail would be easier to grab.
It's sticking straight out begging to be used as a handle.

To grab the legs you would have to reach down into the animals biting zone usually with your face just a quick turn of the body to the animals face.

 

[Lupinus]

not if you come in right, two animals facing off are focused on each other. Move in behind it get down and grab quick and lift. If the dogs arn't grabable let them fight. And once you grab an animal by the tail if you dont get him completly off balance he can turn and get you much easier then the legs. And legs are very easy to hold, tails are not.

 

[JJohnston015]

deleted by me.

 

[Lupinus]

There is a distinct difference between a gun and a violent dog breed.

A gun requires someone to pick it up and use it. It has no brain, has no feelings, can not hurt someone without someone there to pull the trigger.

I violent dog on the other hand requires no help to attack. It has a brain, has feelings, and can hurt someone seriously with no human help.

Gun injuries require an irrisponsible owner. Dog attacks only require a dog to feel a threat reguardless if there is one or not and from there it can be damn near imposible to stop without serious injury.

 

[joab]

Regardless of preventitive measures dog attacks are going to continue. No amount of government regulation is going to stop them.

Same way preventative measures have not cut down on automobile accidents. Same way safety regulations in the work place have not helped to decrease industrial accidents

Therefore individuals must be allowed to apply their own justice to the situation.

There we go

And legs are very easy to hold, tails are not.

The guy I watched didn't have any problem at all.
And while the dogs may be concentrating on each other, they are also in a concentrated ball with legs wrapped in all kinds of weird positions.

Legs have strong muscles that can be used to fight their way out of a hand hold, tails do not
But my comment was about a dog attacking a human.
If the person is standing the dog will likely be in a position that makes grabbing tails or legs easier.


In almost all dog attacks there is almost always some irresponsible act that can be traced back very easily to one of the humans involved

 

[Lupinus]

I've had a dog by the hind legs three times following whats on that link, one has never gotten around to nip me or gotten one leg loose let alone both, all three were dogs pretty intent on going at it and the other guy didn't loose hold either.

I have had several animals slip a grip to the tail and they wernt going at it. Fur tends to go twoards the tip of the tail making it easy to slide a tail free.

Did the guy have gloves of any sort on? Or maybe he just has a hell of a grip lol.

 

[Lupinus]

didn't see hte pic before posting, must not have loaded.

And in a situation like that you do one of two things. Let the dogs fight, much as you or your kids love fluffy im sure you love your fingers and limbs more.

Or notice one dogs legs are open? Grab its legs pull it back and the other dog will go for it opening its legs up for someone else to grab.

I will admit one thing, the links one person method requires some really big cookies and I might be a tad slow to try it lol

 

[joab]

Notice also that tail at full staff just begging to be made into a handle.
That photo was a split second in time. If you don't time your grab right you may find your self grabbing the end that you don't want to

Either way would work

And I'm not talking about grabbing the tip of the tail, I'm talking about down at the base with a two handed forceful grip and lift and backward sprint all at the same time

 

[lysander]

I've seen some comments on the owner's liability...

Like other states, Illinois regulates owners. The full text of the Animal Control Act can be found here. But basically it says that if the boys and the dad were trespassers...the owner might not be liable. Essentially...owner is liable so long as the bite victim did not provoke the dog, was peaceably conducting themselves and was not a trespasser. The legal questions for this owner will be 1) Provocation. 2) Trespass.

The Act also includes provisions for vicious and dangerous dogs...to include, enclosure, euthanasia, fines, etc.

The owner is on the hook for a misdemeanor if the dog is deemed dangerous and attacks someone, a felony if it kills someone.

From a strategic and tactical standpoint....it seems that at bare minimum a Dad might want to carry some pepper spray if he is walking kids door to door.

This would be a scary deal....one dog...I think I could handle physically....two dogs or more, I would want a pitchfork or something.

 

[joab]

"Enclosure" means a fence or structure of at least 6 feet in height, forming or causing an enclosure suitable to prevent the entry of young children, and suitable to confine a vicious dog in conjunction with other measures that may be taken by the owner or keeper, such as tethering of the vicious dog within the enclosure. The enclosure shall be securely enclosed and locked and designed with secure sides, top, and bottom and shall be designed to prevent the animal from escaping from the enclosure. If the enclosure is a room within a residence, it cannot have direct ingress from or egress to the outdoors unless it leads directly to an enclosed pen and the door must be locked. A vicious dog may be allowed to move about freely within the entire residence if it is muzzled at all times.

I highlighted the parts I agree with, with enclosure and pen to include a fenced lot. I would extend this to all large breeds capable of inflicting serious injury on a person or domestic animal

Vicious dog" means a dog that, without justification, attacks a person and causes serious physical injury or death or any individual dog that has been found to be a "dangerous dog" upon 3 separate occasions.

this dog should be put down

 

[Tokugawa]

As a 15 yearold I was charged by a big German shepard late at night, it came off it's yard, across the street and stopped about 10 feet away . Not another soul around, in the country and 2 am. I took out my folder, blade up and resigned myself to the fact I was going to be hurt really bad, but the dog was going to die. The plan was to try to sucker the dog into grabbing my left arm , and stick the knife in at it's balls and cut till I hit the ribcage, then just keep cutting in. I was scared bad but didn't see any other way to take the big dog. I started screaming at the top of my lungs at the dark house acoss the street-"get your dog or I'll use it's f*****g guts for clotheline!" It's pretty funny now, I don't have the faintest idea why I said that, but all the lights came on and this guy comes running out of the house in his bathrobe, hollering at the dog. All was resolved peacefully, to my great relief- I was shaking like crazy.

 

[Warren]

Same way preventative measures have not cut down on automobile accidents. Same way safety regulations in the work place have not helped to decrease industrial accidents
There we go

Accidents still happen. They will always happen. :banghead:

Individuals have a right to get even with those that harm them.