Plastic Fantastic - will there be Gats for the Grandkids?

Status
Not open for further replies.
H

Handy

Guest
Lately, I've become quite turned off to polymer framed auto pistols. At first, it was just price. You just aren't getting your monies worth when you compare a $600 Beretta and a $600 P99. The difference in frame production costs is an order of magnitude difference, but the savings are not being passed along.

But I've started wondering about the plastic itself. The Glock, especially, and most pistols of it's ilk, use the plastic in the receiver as a load bearing and shock absorbing member. As all plastics (and organic compounds in general) deteriorate over time and exposure to the environment, how long should we expect our USPs, Glocks, P99s, XDs to last? And when they do start to go, how catastrophic might the failure be?

I know most people are going to say they don't care. But I'm still pretty young and would like to keep shooting the guns I become enamoured with into my old age. I would also like my kids and their kids to have a crack at them.

I'm looking into buying a Mauser Broomhandle. By next week I may be shooting an automatic gun built 100 years ago. Springs and bore will have been replaced, the metal refinished, but all the major components are the same ones a German factory machined before the WWI. I doubt the same situation will apply to my Glock, someday. Replica grips are one thing, replica frames with molded in rails another.

Maybe new parts will be coming out of our Nanotechnology Toaster ovens by then?
 
Well, I've been told that GLock uses a proprietary blend of Nylon 6... and since there are still more than a few Reminton Nylon 66s floating around in serviceable condition after 40+ years... I imagine the Glocks, with reasonable care, will endure past your time on the planet...

:uhoh: Perhaps you worry too much! :uhoh:

:D
 
A nylon stock on a .22 rifle isn't seeing any stress. It could lose 60% of its original strength and you'd never know it.


I don't worry, I have only the one cheap Glock.
 
I have a Nylon 66 also..........Tuff little .22's I must say.

Was my gramps until he gave it to my dad, then I just told my dad that the gun now belonged to me, he didn't argue.

It's got the Black Nylon Stock and chrome plated barrel and reciever. Very accurate. Love it!
 
I don't worry, I have only the one cheap Glock.
Click to expand...

Really?

I have two; although I'm not sure that 10mm and .45 will put undue stresses on the frames.

If they do, I can always fall back on my cheap alloy-framed SIGs and Berettas...
 
Handy,

Perhaps you've never removed the side plate on a Nylon 66... no metal inserts there, all the friction and stress of firing is borne only by the nylon... and they are still going strong... just as Glocks are sure to be long after we've become a gelatinous pool of worm food. :uhoh:

Perhaps you need a less stressful hobby... :D

:neener:
 
Am I to understand that you are comparing the mass of the Glock slide/barrel with 9mm recoil with the higher mass of the 66 barrel and mechanism with .22 recoil and concluding the same stresses exist?

Guns don't stress me out. I imagine high school physics stressed you out, though.:D


You could make a replacement stock out of paper maiche and it would work fine. I understand that some .22s even use wood!

Anyone volunteer to fire an auto pistol with a wood frame?
 
Hey, I like alliteration as much as the next guy, but... um... gats?

But to give my opinion, get any great plastic poodle popper and you shouldn't have any problems.
:D

My G19 changed my opinions on plastic.
 
With that legendary Glock concern for user safety, chances are you won't have descendants to worry about who will want the pistol that shot ole Grandpa!:evil:
 
Handy,

Nope didn't even have a problem getting my College degree in Physics... nor with my degree in Mathematics...

Tell me, oh Phyiscs Major... just how much stress the Glock slide hitting the locking block in recoil puts on the frame... oh and then tell me how much stress the Nylon 66 bolt, running on nylon rails (no steel here, bud) and being stopped in recoil by the rear nylon reciver wall (no steel locking block here bud) puts on its receiver.

Then you do the comparison... becasue, from here, it appears your mind is already closed to any fact-based comparisons that might challenge your notions, and besides I'm too tired to continue debating a comparison you seem ill-equipped (due to a lack of knowledge about the internal construction of the Nylon 66) to make.

Thansk for thinking of us tho'... :D
 
Good point. Plastics deteriorate from exposure to ozone, ultraviolet light, heat and a general outgassing of the plasticiser. Usually the plastic gets brittle first. Find my 10mm G20 in the fallout shelter100 years from now and it will probably crumble like a toy with the first shot. Ionizing radiation probably would speed the whole thing up also. Wonder what solvents (MEK, Methyl Chloride, Xylene?) would turn it into a goo?
Bring me back like Harry Houdini and tell me how it works out. The great, great grandkids can laugh at the antiquity while they go out into the big tunnel to play with their phasers.

Wouldn't it be a hoot to come across a stash of a few crates of new in box Broomhandles packed in cosmoline in the back of a cave somewhere?
 
Handy,

How dare you bring up a valid and well-thought out criticism of Glocks! Every once and a while this argument comes up and it degrades into name calling because the polymer crowd has no real counter-argument.

You're right, no one will be shooting todays Glocks 75 years from now. But all-steel guns might last 200 to 300 years (at least). Something to think about if you intend to pass down your guns to the younger generations...

My oldest gun is a Swedish Mauser that was made in 1917. A If Glock was made in 1917, it prob wouldn't still be shootable. To some of us this matters, to others it doesn't.
 
You just aren't getting your monies worth when you compare a $600 Beretta and a $600 P99. The difference in frame production costs is an order of magnitude difference, but the savings are not being passed along.
Click to expand...
It never ceases to astound me that people believe that this matters.

The VALUE of a thing has absolutely no relationship to the COST of producing it. VALUE is, always has been, and always will be, subjective. Whether a Glock or a Walther or a Beretta or a Colt costs $.05 or $5000 to produce doesn't matter. What matters is how much you're willing to pay versus the number on the price tag.
 
I have to agreee, I doubt the glock I own will be safe to fire in 75 years, but then neither will I.

Out of 30+ guns I own I only have 1 polymer framed gun. and a keltec p-32 which has a polymer grip, but does have an aluminum frame inside the grip.

Gimme good old steel anytime.

I do like my g-26 its light powerful and accurate its like the bic lighter of handguns.

Maybe 75 years from now if guns are still legal or arnt out moded by technology glock will be making replacement frames, or heck maybe Volquartsen will make an aluminum or steel replacement frame for the G-26:D
 
It seems to me that neither side can make the claim that 'yes, every polymer frame will crumble to dust by 2080' or 'No, polymer, like true love, is forever.'

Unless someone from the future comes back in time to let us know, there's really no way to know how long a particular material will last, though we can make educated guesses based on how older, but similar materials have held up.

The plastic in an HK or Glock isn't the same as the plastic used to make a Barbie doll in the 1950's, so just because some toys or other cheaply produced plastics have broken down isn't going to offer a true reflection as to whether an industrial grade polymer will/won't break down.

I'm sure this has been studied by the manufacturers, though.
 
Why Worry

Our government (yes even Shrub!) will see to it you nor your children will be shooting ANY GUNS 75 years from now! As a matter of fact if you get one that will last for 15 years I feel you will be quite safe in not wearing it out! ;)
 
Plastic takes less maintenance than metal.

Plastic is lighter than metal.

I seem to keep hearing about how these great steel firearms- that have been preserved and sheltered- will be useable in the future, while those horrible plastic guns that have been exposed to the elements and radiation for 75 years will not?

Apples to apples, folks.
 
Don't quite follow, Shirley. Are you saying the plastic will last longer, and all the steel components of the Glock will rust away?

By the way, an awful lot of old firearms were not babied. They were refinished, though.
 
Handy I've asked the same ? on tfl before

What I would suggest is that someone contact somebody who really knows about the physical properties of firearms related materials and get them to comment.

I can find weakness in everything so why don't we compile a list of the weaknesses of all current materials?

Plastics
Steel and Stainless steel
non ferrous metals
carbon fiber
titanium and space age alloys

I'm sure I have forgot some. Solvents hurt some and help others. Oxygen harms all things. Heat is more or less of a problem. Vibration anyone? Water, Acid, salt? Pressure or whatever.

Hey maybe Mr Physics degree can help. I'm just an educated layman so I will be of no help other than fueling the fire. :fire:

-bevr
 
BevrFevr,

I can't help, because they didn't cover "Prying the lid off a closed mind." in my course of study... I'm quite sure that most of us will crumble to dust before Glock's polymer-frames... Convincing y'all... is NOT in my job description. :rolleyes:

Perhaps I should have taken Psychology instead... a science which is no doubt just as solid as most of these arguments. :scrutiny:

Here, you dropped your spoon... :evil:
 
Last edited:
9x19,

We know the Glock and other plastic pistols do change shape considerably during firing. Just so we're clear, you're saying that the nylon components of the Model 66 visibly bend and deform every time .22lr goes bang?
 
"The wheel won't last, it's just round and rolls away. What a stupid idea."
"Television? Who's gonna watch that?"
"The Internet? That's not gonna last."
"New Coke, what a great idea!"

The above four sentiments have also been said by the anti-polymer crowd.
They have been right before, maybe we should listen to them now. :rolleyes: :neener: :neener:
 
Delta, saying something won't last forever doesn't mean it's not a good idea.

Just like Gaston said, a disposable gun for disposable soldiers.

Seriously though, I'm only talking about guns from the perspective of keeping them a long time. For cops, who keep their arms only a decade or so, polymer is ideal.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top