Plated bullet question.
- Thread starter Wildbillz
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Whiterook808
Member
You need to use cast bullet loads or mid-range jacketed. Check to see what velocities the plated bullets can handle and do not exceed that. I use Berrys and they have that info on their website. I think TMJ is jacketed, not plated.
Whiterook808
Member
Sorry, I was confused by the work 'jacket' in the name. I have never used those.
kmw1954
Member
What powder are you going to use? If a Western/ Accurate, Ramshot / if you look at their load data the list many loads using Berry's and Rainier plated. Xtreme and many of the others should fall into the same loads.
I can tell you from experience that many lead loads that are starting loads will not fully cycle many 9mm pistols. The load is just too light. I have run into that with 3 powders and also on occasion with 380 Auto.
I can tell you from experience that many lead loads that are starting loads will not fully cycle many 9mm pistols. The load is just too light. I have run into that with 3 powders and also on occasion with 380 Auto.
brewer12345
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Start with high end of lead data or low end of jacketed.
gwpercle
Member
Cast or Lead bullet data , Lyman has the most complete on cast, Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook #3 and #4 are good.
TC indicates a Truncated Cone design , they can be lead, plated or jacketed .
TC indicates a Truncated Cone design , they can be lead, plated or jacketed .
One reason I don't recommend plated bullets to new/newer reloaders; not enough easily found information. Of the 1,000 I tried, all were loaded with lead bullet data. No "formula" just lead bullet data and work up if necessary. Cost isn't an issue either. Just a kinda in between, "red headed step child" for me...
FWIW; I was not impressed with plated bullets as my cast lead bullets are very accurate and do not lead the barrels. If I wanted/needed higher velocities, I just use jacketed bullets.
FWIW; I was not impressed with plated bullets as my cast lead bullets are very accurate and do not lead the barrels. If I wanted/needed higher velocities, I just use jacketed bullets.
vaalpens
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There should be no problem finding load data for Speer TMJ bullets. Speer has some online load data which covers both TMJ and GDHP bullets. What caliber are you planning on loading?
Other plated bullets are different. You get the thinner and thicket plated bullets. With both thinner and thicket plated bullets they have a maximum velocity before accuracy start going bad.
Other plated bullets are different. You get the thinner and thicket plated bullets. With both thinner and thicket plated bullets they have a maximum velocity before accuracy start going bad.
cheygriz
member
I use tons of Rainier and FMP 9MM 115 and 124 grain plated. No problems at 1300 FPS in any of my 9MM weapons.
You can usually come very close to jacketed bullet max without problems. (Remember CLOSE, not OVER!)
You can usually come very close to jacketed bullet max without problems. (Remember CLOSE, not OVER!)
brewer12345
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Yes plated has a lower speed limit than jacketed but unless you are looking for magnums velocities it is unlikely to be a problem.
Erief0g
Member
I concur that many plated are rated to a surprising fps rating. Check with the mfg for ratings. Should give you a ballpark
I tested plated bullets in the 45ACP and you can use this data as a means of estimating. I purchased H&G 68 type plated bullets from Xtreme Bullets. I wanted to reduce the amount of lead being blown out of my barrel. I have heard that for plated bullets you just use the same data as for cast. This seems to be true for velocity, but at the lower end of pressure and recoil, where I am operating, while the velocities were close, function was not. Ejection and lockback were not reliable with a load of 200 Xtreme plated bullet and 3.7 grains Bulleye. This even though the cartridges were oiled. However, a test load of 4.0 grains Bullseye with the Xtreme plated bullet functioned, ejected and lockbacked for my test rounds as long as the weather was hot. When it got cold, I had the occasional failure to eject, failures like stovepipes. So I bumped the charge up to 4.2 grains of Bullseye. No failures to eject but the recoil went up. You can't have everything.
M1911 Les Baer Wadcutter new 13 lb recoil spring
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.5 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Brass mixed cases OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469"
23-Mar-16 T = 69 °F
Ave Vel = 664.9
Std Dev = 16.18
ES = 51.71
High = 686.1
Low = 63.3
N = 8
stove pipes, would not latch slide
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.5 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469"
8-Jun-15 T = 91 °F
Ave Vel = 660.6
Std Dev = 16.37
ES = 60.28
High = 695.6
Low = 635.3
N = 22
Classic Bullseye pistol 25 yard Rapid fire load. Functioned every round hot weather , light recoil, accurate However, in cold weather, failures to eject. Likely reason, Ultradot and mount added weight to the slide and the load does not have the power to function when temperatures drop.
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.8 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469" oiled cases
8-Jun-15 T = 91 °F
Ave Vel = 714.4
Std Dev = 17.17
ES = 77.2
High = 755.1
Low = 677.9
N = 30
accurate
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 907 6/20/2005 WLP Brass mixed cases OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469" oiled cases
23-Mar-16 T = 69 °F
Ave Vel = 723.3
Std Dev = 9.48
ES = 28.65
High = 741.6
Low = 712.9
N = 10
Lot 907 has been consistently slower than lot 919
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases
OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469" oiled cases
8-Jun-15 T = 91 °F
Ave Vel = 742.9
Std Dev = 9.89
ES = 33.19
High = 760.6
Low = 727.5
N = 20
accurate
Classic Bullseye Pistol 50 yard slowfire load. Velocity of 740 fps provides consistent accuracy and function for a 50 yard load.
200 Xtreme Plated SWC 3.7 grs Bullseye Lot 907 6-20-2005 WLP Brass mixed cases OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469" oiled cases
23-Mar-16 T = 72 °F
Ave Vel = 651.7
Std Dev = 11.66
ES = 40.03
High = 676.9
Low = 636.9
N = 14
all ejected, slide failed to lock back once
200 Xtreme Plated SWC 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 907 6-20-2005 WLP Brass mixed cases OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469" oiled cases
23-Mar-16 T = 72 °F
Ave Vel = 686.8
Std Dev = 26.32
ES = 91.37
High = 730.4
Low = 639.1
N = 14
accurate, functioned and slide locked back
M1911 Les Baer Wadcutter new 13 lb recoil spring
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.5 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Brass mixed cases OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469"
23-Mar-16 T = 69 °F
Ave Vel = 664.9
Std Dev = 16.18
ES = 51.71
High = 686.1
Low = 63.3
N = 8
stove pipes, would not latch slide
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.5 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469"
8-Jun-15 T = 91 °F
Ave Vel = 660.6
Std Dev = 16.37
ES = 60.28
High = 695.6
Low = 635.3
N = 22
Classic Bullseye pistol 25 yard Rapid fire load. Functioned every round hot weather , light recoil, accurate However, in cold weather, failures to eject. Likely reason, Ultradot and mount added weight to the slide and the load does not have the power to function when temperatures drop.
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 3.8 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469" oiled cases
8-Jun-15 T = 91 °F
Ave Vel = 714.4
Std Dev = 17.17
ES = 77.2
High = 755.1
Low = 677.9
N = 30
accurate
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 907 6/20/2005 WLP Brass mixed cases OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469" oiled cases
23-Mar-16 T = 69 °F
Ave Vel = 723.3
Std Dev = 9.48
ES = 28.65
High = 741.6
Low = 712.9
N = 10
Lot 907 has been consistently slower than lot 919
200 LSWC (H&G 68 type) 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 919 11/2005 WLP Nickle, mixed cases
OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469" oiled cases
8-Jun-15 T = 91 °F
Ave Vel = 742.9
Std Dev = 9.89
ES = 33.19
High = 760.6
Low = 727.5
N = 20
accurate
Classic Bullseye Pistol 50 yard slowfire load. Velocity of 740 fps provides consistent accuracy and function for a 50 yard load.
200 Xtreme Plated SWC 3.7 grs Bullseye Lot 907 6-20-2005 WLP Brass mixed cases OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469" oiled cases
23-Mar-16 T = 72 °F
Ave Vel = 651.7
Std Dev = 11.66
ES = 40.03
High = 676.9
Low = 636.9
N = 14
all ejected, slide failed to lock back once
200 Xtreme Plated SWC 4.0 grs Bullseye Lot 907 6-20-2005 WLP Brass mixed cases OAL 1.250" Taper Crimp 0.469" oiled cases
23-Mar-16 T = 72 °F
Ave Vel = 686.8
Std Dev = 26.32
ES = 91.37
High = 730.4
Low = 639.1
N = 14
accurate, functioned and slide locked back
Starting data for lead can get you in trouble as some can be too weak. Midrange to max lead data is generally fine. Midrange jacketed data will keep you out of trouble. Many plated bullets in a lot of applications can be pushed to near max jacketed loads.
Some powder companies include some plated data now.
What bullet? What caliber? What are you looking to do with it/expect out of it?
Some powder companies include some plated data now.
What bullet? What caliber? What are you looking to do with it/expect out of it?
frankmako
Member
I use extreme plated bullets in two rifles. If you keep the speed under what the company says and do a lite crimp you will be okay.
For 45 ACP, I use the same powder charge for cast, plated or jacketed bullets. The plated bullet velocities are well below the the max velocity specified by the manufacturer. The velocity for all the loads are pretty much the same for the same powder charge regardless of the bullet that I am using. for decades, I've been loading the same powder charge of 700-X for my 45 ACP regardless of the bullet construction seated in the case and they all shoot to about the same velocity and point of aim. All the bullets are nominal 230 grain RN bullets.
For magnum cartridges, I load mid-range loads and for plated bullets, I load to a desired velocity. The velocity is generally around 1000 fps or less for 357 Magnum or 44 Magnum. I keep the loads below the maximum velocity suggested by the plated bullet manufacturers. Cast bullet loads are a good starting point, but I adjust the powder charge to meet a desired velocity. A chronograph is very useful here.
If I load to magnum velocities, I would use jacketed bullets. But, these days, I rarely load to maximum pressures except in my 460 S&W Magnum.
For magnum cartridges, I load mid-range loads and for plated bullets, I load to a desired velocity. The velocity is generally around 1000 fps or less for 357 Magnum or 44 Magnum. I keep the loads below the maximum velocity suggested by the plated bullet manufacturers. Cast bullet loads are a good starting point, but I adjust the powder charge to meet a desired velocity. A chronograph is very useful here.
If I load to magnum velocities, I would use jacketed bullets. But, these days, I rarely load to maximum pressures except in my 460 S&W Magnum.
Dudedog
Contributing Member
In general using plated pistol bullets I have found they are happy from say mid range lead charges to midrange jacketed charges.
But all plated bullets are not the same some for 9mm as an example are .3555 dia or .356 dia some are .355. The larger dia ones need a little less powder.
If you give us a cal, bullet and the powder you were thinking about there is a good chance one of us may have loaded it already and we might be able to give you some number that worked for us
with our batch of bullets/lot of powder/pistol.
But all plated bullets are not the same some for 9mm as an example are .3555 dia or .356 dia some are .355. The larger dia ones need a little less powder.
If you give us a cal, bullet and the powder you were thinking about there is a good chance one of us may have loaded it already and we might be able to give you some number that worked for us
with our batch of bullets/lot of powder/pistol.
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kmw1954
Member
Load data is becoming more plentiful as plated bullets become more widely used. Western lists a good selection of plated bullets for about all their pistol powders. Hodgdon is also starting to list some Berry's. The more confusing part is with Berry's Hollow Base bullets as they are longer than solid base bullets and the seating depth isn't always the same and neither is the load data if one looks thru Westerns data.
I use plated in my auto loaders just because of the difficulties many experience loading cast lead in the 9mm pistols. When I first started with the 9mm I was going to try and load cast lead until I started reading and following on the Cast Boolits.com forum. I quickly changed my mind. The plated work very well and are easy to load in the auto loaders with a taper crimp. Though I would not be loading them in revolvers that require a roll crimp. Also when comparing cast lead to plated bullets price wise I don't see much of a difference and yes some of each can be found cheaper than the others when there are sales.
LiveLife
Member
Jackets of FMJ are made from gilding metal with thickness around .015" to .030" in thickness.
Copper plating thickness of regular plated bullets range around .004" and most manufacturers advertise velocity ratings of 1200 to 1250 fps. For me, regular plated bullets work well with lead load data but when pushed faster than mid range jacketed load data, accuracy started to suffer.
Copper plating thickness of thicker plated bullets range from .010" to .014" and manufacturers advertise velocity ratings of 1300 to 1500 fps. I have used thick plated bullets with full jacketed load data without loss of accuracy.
TMJ (Total Metal Jacket) is trademarked by Speer/ATK (Now Vista Outdoor) and has copper plating thickness around .015" (Speer Gold Dot around .018") and I have used TMJ/Gold Dot with jacketed load data with good results.
Here's a listing of various plated bullets (with corresponding plating thickness) and rated velocities - https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...ng-at-25-50-yards.808446/page-3#post-10470195
There are many plated load data available from various powder manufacturers.
Hodgdon lists thicker plated bullet load data under BERB (Berry's bullets) TP (Thick Plated) - http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/
Speer publishes load data for TMJ and Gold Dot - https://www.speer-ammo.com/reloading/handgun
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But since we do not know what caliber or power level the OP is asking about yet, that may not apply. Some starting lead data is too low for plated bullets. I have fired 10's of thousands of plated bullets over the last three plus decades and can say that with confidence. Hopefully the OP will let us know what application and power level he is asking about and what he wants to do with the plated bullets he has and we can be much more specific.
Using your example of 9MM caliber, plated bullets can be run very close to if not at max with some jacketed data. There is enough plated data out there now to show full loads with plated bullets vs jacketed in the same PDFs or online data. But again, we don't know what caliber yet.
Yep.
The only issue I have with plated bullets is they are trying to price themselves out of existence as they approach, and in some cases exceed, the price one can buy jacketed. Coated is the new "good deal" out there for high volume shooters who want to choose something other than plain lead bullets.
FROGO207
Member
I shoot with a couple "really accurate" bullseye shooters that tell me they have documented an accuracy decrease with coated bullets over lead or plated. Also lead is most accurate of the three as they find. So far I have been happy with Hi Tec coated in 38 SPL, 9MM, 40, and 45 ACP and can not tell if there is an accuracy issue. The plated bullets have fallen to the wayside in my reloading room these days. YMMV
Jim Watson
Member
I am loading 147 gr 9mm Xtreme plated, 7.5 cents a pop when on sale.
Where can I get jacketed bullets for that? Zero, Precision Delta, and RMR are higher.
BBI coated is the same price.
Where can I get jacketed bullets for that? Zero, Precision Delta, and RMR are higher.
BBI coated is the same price.
OP
OP
Wildbillz
Member
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Sorry here is more info.
What caliber? 38/357, 9mm, 45Acp maybe some 380Acp, 40 S&W and 10mm.
What powder? On hand I have Win 231, Win 296, AA #9, HP38, Uniqe, Bullseye.
What bullets? The ones I have right now came from RMR a few years back. I have 124grn RN 9mm, 230grn RN 45Acp, 165grn (these are sort of a round nose with a flat tip and a hollow point) 40 S&W/ 10mm?
What do I want them for? Plinking and target shooting. No match ammo or anything like that. I am hoping that they will load cleaner on my Dillon allowing me to load more between cleanings and fire cleaner out of the guns meaning less work in cleaning them. I also plan on using them in guns that do not recomend the use of lead bullets (Glocks, USP ect).
So far it sounds like I should be good to go if I run middle of the cast up to middle of the jacketed loading keeping my velocity under 1300 fps or so?
Hope that helps
Thanks
WB
What caliber? 38/357, 9mm, 45Acp maybe some 380Acp, 40 S&W and 10mm.
What powder? On hand I have Win 231, Win 296, AA #9, HP38, Uniqe, Bullseye.
What bullets? The ones I have right now came from RMR a few years back. I have 124grn RN 9mm, 230grn RN 45Acp, 165grn (these are sort of a round nose with a flat tip and a hollow point) 40 S&W/ 10mm?
What do I want them for? Plinking and target shooting. No match ammo or anything like that. I am hoping that they will load cleaner on my Dillon allowing me to load more between cleanings and fire cleaner out of the guns meaning less work in cleaning them. I also plan on using them in guns that do not recomend the use of lead bullets (Glocks, USP ect).
So far it sounds like I should be good to go if I run middle of the cast up to middle of the jacketed loading keeping my velocity under 1300 fps or so?
Hope that helps
Thanks
WB
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I reload 380, 9mm, 9mm Largo, 40 and 45 with either Berry’s or Rainier plated bullets. I load all of them at the starting (minimum) for FMJ bullets. They shoot and function just fine in the various handguns and couple of pistol caliber carbines that I own. I am using Hodgkin Universal powder for all the above calibers.
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