Plated Bullets-Do not exceed mid-range loads

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243winxb

243winxb

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How do I load Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets?
Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.
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2 gun blowups because of plated bullets? :confused: What do you think? http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=383036 Here is a second one http://thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=377078
 
I have shot thousands of plated bullets over many years with no problems. I use mid to upper jacketed data with many of them. :)
 
We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data when loading our bullets. There is no need for adjustment when using lead bullet load data. Our bullets are jacketed using an electroplating process and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets; hence the recommendation to use lead bullet load data. If you only have access to traditionally jacketed load data, we recommend reducing maximum charge by 10%. A roll or taper crimp may be used with our bullets; do not over crimp
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From there website
 
I have seen that a million times, and the Berrys quote as well. It has been discussed here a lot.

Link
 
It's not the bullets causing the problems. I've seen blown pistols with lead and jacketed bullets, and it was always the loading that caused it. I've shot thousands of Berry's plated bullets in .38 Spl., 9mm, 357 Sig, .40 S&W, 10mm, .41 Magnum, .45 acp and .45-70. As long as they're loaded correctly, they shoot great.



Hope this helps.

Fred
 
Perhaps a hasty conclusion

Those failures were probably not the bullets. Two handloaders blow up their pistols, probably with overcharges, and don't seem to have a clue as to why.

Meanwhile, thousands of IPSC and IDPA shooters make Power Factor and shoot millions of copper plated bullets around the world every year without failure. Plated bullets are actually quite popular in action competitions. I think it's too soon to point the conclusion at the bullets, especially when you and I both know that operator error is the greatest variable in handloading, not the components.

On the other hand, it would be great if other handloaders buy fmj and lead, leaving copper plated bullets to me so I can continue to load them safely and cheaply. It's selfish, I know, but it would sure help me keep the cost down.

By the way, my Lee, Accurate, and VV load tables have data for copper plated pistol bullets. You asked about that on the other thread.
 
By the way, my Lee, Accurate, and VV load tables have data for copper plated pistol bullets. You asked about that on the other thread.
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How does the plated bullet powder charge compare to data for jacketed bullets of the same weight and style?
 
The old data is no longer valid

How do I load Berry's Preferred Plated Bullets?
Plated bullets occupy a position between cast bullets and jacketed bullets. They are soft lead, but have a hard outer shell on them. When loading plated bullets we have found best results using low- to mid-range jacketed data in the load manual. You must use data for a bullet that has the same weight and profile as the one you are loading. Do not exceed mid-range loads. Do not use magnum loads.
Click to expand...
I would play it safe and follow these 2 NEW guide lines currently set by Berry's and Rainier's for all plated bullets.
We, at Rainier Ballistics, recommend using lead bullet load data when loading our bullets. There is no need for adjustment when using lead bullet load data. Our bullets are jacketed using an electroplating process and are softer than traditionally jacketed bullets; hence the recommendation to use lead bullet load data. If you only have access to traditionally jacketed load data, we recommend reducing maximum charge by 10%. A roll or taper crimp may be used with our bullets; do not over crimp
Click to expand...
 
Hello 243winxb.

What got in your craw about plated bullets all of a sudden? Just curious. :)
 
Being pretty new at reloading I sort of question the plated bullets theory. What I do believe now, after loading my 40SW w/o a crimp, is that I will always crimp every one of my handgun reloads. I was luckier than the guys who had the case blowups because I spotted mine before pulling the trigger. 27 of the 50 rounds I reloaded compressed the bullet back into the case. In a couple of cases the nose was flush to the case. After I spotted the first one I stopped firing and just racked the round and ejected it one at a time. It was pure dumb luck I was only loading a single round in the mag. Each round got hung on the feed ramp and every bullet was copper plated 150gr Win. HS-6 3.7gr, win small pistol primers. The cases were range brass but I sorted them by HS before loading, This particular batch were CCI.
Right now I'm waiting for my Lee factory crimp dies before I continue.
 
I won't get into the Lee FCD debate here, but you need more neck tension. No amount of crimp can make up for poor neck tension. Overcrimping can ruin neck tension, as can post sizing.
 
Being pretty new at reloading I sort of question the plated bullets theory. What I do believe now, after loading my 40SW w/o a crimp, is that I will always crimp every one of my handgun reloads. I was luckier than the guys who had the case blowups because I spotted mine before pulling the trigger. 27 of the 50 rounds I reloaded compressed the bullet back into the case. In a couple of cases the nose was flush to the case. After I spotted the first one I stopped firing and just racked the round and ejected it one at a time. It was pure dumb luck I was only loading a single round in the mag. Each round got hung on the feed ramp and every bullet was copper plated 150gr Win. HS-6 3.7gr, win small pistol primers. The cases were range brass but I sorted them by HS before loading, This particular batch were CCI.
Right now I'm waiting for my Lee factory crimp dies before I continue.
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The plated bullets were not the problem in the post referenced by the OP concerning the blown case. They're also not the cause of the problem found in your loads. Crimp does not hold your .40 S&W rounds...case tension from resizing does. The only reason for taper-crimping is to remove the "bell" from the case mouth. Although plated bullets do not have as thick or as hard a coating as true jacketed rounds they are a perfectly good alternative. Remember, the Speer Gold Dot is also just plated...or as they say, "applied one molecule at a time".
 
ar10, welcome to reloading! Always nice to have a new buddy.

Check the adjustment of your sizing die. It is possible that the case isn't going deeply enough into the die to size it down to proper diameter for tension on the bullet. That's probably why your bullets set back so easily.

Best of luck, friend. Go out there and have fun shooting. Then come back and have fun reloading. Repeat.
 
Plated bullets will actually do fine at magnum velocities, IF:

You use a taper crimp die. That way the plating stays on the projectile.

If you use a caliber/powder combo that requires a firm roll crimp? Pack it up Sally, you're done. Why?

That heavy roll crimp strips the plating off the slug. Now it's undersized. Then said undersized slug(that is usually a soft alloy) heads down the barrel being gas cut all the way 'cause it didn't seal the bore.

Result?

Piss poor accuracy(a lot of times they'll keyhole), and a nastily leaded bore.
 
I have loaded and shot many plated bullets mostly Raineer's, I find that low pressure cartridges such as .38spl, 44spl and .45acp can be loaded to 65-85% of jacketed data with very good results. As for magnum loads in a revolver a good solid crimp is needed and thats where the challenge begins, I find the taper crimp is best for plated bullets(but I have gotten away with a light roll crimp with light loads) but with heavy bullets and magnum loads I load at the low end.
For revolver measure the OAL shoot all but the last one and measure it to see if the bullet is creeping forward. I have over roll crimped plated bullets in .357 mag and found peels of copper stuck to the forcing cone :cuss:
 
Recipe for a blowup? Could be ??

The round is loaded to maximum using jacketed bullet data. The plated bullet is undersize in diameter. The loading dies are not to specifacation giving a light bullet pull. The bullet is over crimped to correct the large expander or undersize bullet. The break in the plated copper lets the pure lead Obturate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obturate into the throat area on firing. On chambering the round, the bullet was driven back into the case.http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/kb-notes.html The pressure is 3 times its norm. KaBoom http://www.thegunzone.com/glock/glock-kb-faq.html
 
I tried a little experiment with Berrys 148 Gr DEWC's and taper vs roll crimp in .38 Spl. The Taper Crimped rounds shot pretty well, while the Roll Crimped rounds had terrible accuracy.(light roll over the front edge) No sheared copper visible etc, but it obviously ruined accuracy. The higher the velocity the worse this would get. I shoot plated bullets in revolver rounds, but always use a Taper Crimp. You can use a pretty firm taper crimp, just not a roll crimp.

I will say again, as others have reiterated, it is neck tension that is going to keep the bullets from setting back in auto rounds. The taper crimp needs to remove the bell and perhaps a tad more. It will NOT make up for poor neck tension no matter how firm the crimp is. It can help bullet setback a little, but CANNOT overcome poor neck tension.

A too heavy crimp can ruin otherwise good neck tension. Post sizing can ruin good neck tension as well. That is why I always argue against the LEE FCD. (Different discussion, don't go there here. There is already a good thread going about it now. :))

Anyway, NECK TENSION IS YOUR FRIEND HERE> :cool:
 
Our club had enough shooters that used Berry’s bullets I setup a dealer account a few years ago and ordered over $10,000 worth of them just last year. We have blown up exactly zero guns. Keep the loads under 1200 fps and don’t shoot them out of AET barrels (if you don’t know what that means you don’t have one) and you’ll be good to go.
 
Berrys 148 Gr DEWC's
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I load the same bullet in .38 spl.

I seat the bullet ~1/32" proud of the case mouth and hit it very lightly with the LFCD to take the flare back out of the case.

Loaded them w/ a light charge of W231 and they're more accurate than I am.
 
Same way I did the ones that shot well. I used a Redding Taper die though.
 
243 describes a series of operator errors.

243winxb just described a very viable scenario in which a gun could explode. I think it's important to consider it.

But the failure was not because the bullet was copper plated. In accordcance with his explanation, the cartridge was overloaded for the bullet, an undersized bullet was used, the dies were faulty, the operator overcrimped and damaged the bullet, and it lead to a failure. No surprise.

Here's a good question: Can a jacketed or lead bullet overcome operator error as described by 243? Sometimes it can mask operator error, but it can't correct it. The operator needs to be more cautious, learn more about the craft, and exercise good judgement.
 
Being pretty new at reloading I sort of question the plated bullets theory. What I do believe now, after loading my 40SW w/o a crimp, is that I will always crimp every one of my handgun reloads. I was luckier than the guys who had the case blowups because I spotted mine before pulling the trigger. 27 of the 50 rounds I reloaded compressed the bullet back into the case. In a couple of cases the nose was flush to the case. After I spotted the first one I stopped firing and just racked the round and ejected it one at a time. It was pure dumb luck I was only loading a single round in the mag. Each round got hung on the feed ramp and every bullet was copper plated 150gr Win. HS-6 3.7gr, win small pistol primers. The cases were range brass but I sorted them by HS before loading, This particular batch were CCI.
Right now I'm waiting for my Lee factory crimp dies before I continue.
Click to expand...

AR10,
Stop using that particular type of CCI brass. It is the problem (it's thin). You need a sizing die that sizes extra tight for that brass or use real hardcast lead bullets (0.001" larger diameter). The LEE FCD isn't going to help a thing in this (or most) case(s).

I wonder if that particular CCI 9mm brass is within SAAMI specs? Seems to be a trend of people having trouble reloading it. You shouldn't need an EGW U-die to reload in-spec 9mm brass.
 
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