Pleasantly surprised w/PG only shottie...

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Drjones

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So I've been dying to shoot my Mossberg with the PG-only that it came with in addition to the full stock.

I just don't feel like I get a good, solid grip on the stock compared with the PG. I've considered a combo full stock with PG, but I'm lazy...

Anyhow, I got to shoot it for the first time and was very pleasantly surprised. It took a few rounds to get used to it, but after 3-4 shots, I found it very controllable and surprisingly accurate shooting from the hip.

I also like the compactness of the shottie with PG-only. It works better than the full stock for my house, because my house is large, but not very open, so the shorter length is welcome.

I know most people do not like nor recommend them, but I found it comfortable and accurate, and we're supposed to go with what works for us, and I think this is a winner for me. :)

Oh, I've got a Model 88, BTW.
 
A friend has the same setup you describe, but the pistol grip never gets used for anything but a range toy.

Have you considered a folding stock? I like to be able to aim, personally.
 
Folding stocks aren't legal in my country. :rolleyes: :cuss:

Very lethal, doncha know....:rolleyes:
 
Dave is asking because he is about to throw down a challenge. :)

He has said before that he is willing to shoot a serious COF/match against anybody with a PGO shotgun. And is willing to bet that he will beat the pants off of anybody with a PGO shotgun.

Personally I agree with him.

If you aren't near MD, are you anywhere near Utah? Because if you are on this side of the country I'll stand in for Dave. :p

Honestly, I've yet to personally see anybody, ever, shoot a PG worth a darn under high speed conditions. I'm willing to bet a master class shooter with a PGO shotgun would get whooped in a 3 gun match by a sharpshooter class shooter with a full stock.

But hey, if it works for you, good. All kidding aside. If it suits you, run with it.
 
I don't have anywhere near the experience or training to participate in a match.

I'm just confident that I could put a big gaping hole in anyone who threatens me and/or my family in our home. :)
 
"There are the experienced riflemen and then there are the armchair commandos." -Anon
 
To each his own.
Personally, I hate PGO.
I used to draw short straw, and have to do the teaching to armored car guys the use of PGO :(
The chuckles when I drew that short straw was not appreciated either.

Don't do that anymore, range closed and the guy moved away, miss the private range, do not miss the PGO part.
 
Jack is a little harsh, but I think I understand where he is coming from. You never know how something really works until you really wring it out.

The PGO may be able to defend your family, but the same thing could be said for a blunderbuss or a pickax. Neither one is an ideal choice though.

The reason Dave, or I, or people like us issue challenges to folks with PGOs is that we are pretty confident that they aren't worth a damn. (the PGO, not the shooter!)

You may be able to hit targets from the hip with it, but I'm willing to bet that you will be slower and more inaccurate than with a regular gun. You may be able to practice a bunch with it and become proficient, however for that same amount of practice time and ammo you could be super good with a regular shotgun. However after that much practice with a PGO you will probably have a fatal case of carpal tunnel. :)

You don't need to be experienced or even very good to come out and shoot in an organized match. Everybody has to start somewhere. But that way you get to really put your equipment to the test and see how it really works.

Or at least get with a really good shotgunner who has access to a bunch of plates and a PACT timer. Bring both stocks for your Mossberg and I believe you will get a surprise.

Just so you know, no PGO advocate has ever taken Dave up on his challenge.
 
DrJones, I've NEVER seen anyone shoot as well with a PG as with a standard stock, but then I'm only 57.

If,God forbid, anyone ever comes after me with a shotgun, I hope and pray it has a PG on it.

Here's the challenge and it's to ANY PGO fan.

We'll shoot the COF or COFs of your choice.

We'll shoot at ANY distance you choose, from one foot off the muzzle to 25 yards.

We'll shoot your choice of ammo.Light loads, heavy loads. Slugs? H*ll yes!!

YOU can use ANY PGO equipped shotgun out there, with any accessories up to radar and belt feed.

I shall use Frankenstein, my homely but reliable parts 870. Total list of mods, shortened barrel of about 21" with long forcing cone.

We'll shoot for score, time decides ties, though there will NOT be any.

Results will get published rat cheer.

Since I'm the self proclaimed "Expert", I'm the one who stand to lose the most if I lose this challenge. But, I will not lose. Trust me.

And, friend Corriea can beat the pants off me. Be warned, before journeying to Utah. I'm old and out of competition. He wins things with shotguns.

And, any PGO fan out there who has the fortitude,but isn't close to Utah or the wilds of central MD, try this....

Shoot any reasonably difficult COF with a PGO shotgun. Next, mount a real stock on that same shotgun and repeat the exercise. If your scores and times are not SIGNIFICANTLY better, say 50%, lunch is on me.

(Dismounting from soapbox)....
 
PGO was intended for a breaching gun...and the procedure is to put the muzzel right against the locking mechanism.

The breaching round is powdered copper or the like.

A well used breaching gun has a muzzel like someone put it to a band saw.

It's is those who do vs. those who if they had to do maybe they might try it for the first time. I'm always amazed and very happy for their enlightenment when they try something for the first time and lo and behold it dosen't work as advertized. That's the thing about practice...it does acomplishes two objectives;

1. Contitioning i.e. learning.

2. Allowing one to go into an autonomic response when the baloon goes up. So thinking is not part of the equation.

Like shooting so many highspeed drills that you don't even remember seeing your sights. Or doing speed reloads where when that pistol locks back you imediately reach for a reload.
 
It really annoys the CRAP out of me when someone who works in/around firearms, maybe LEO, maybe instructor, maybe gunstore counter commando chooses to share their knowledge and help a fellow enthusiast out with a condescending attitude.

a) "You're just an armchair wannabe commando rubberknifer who bought that PG shotgun and is gonna die when the balloon goes up and 15 ninjas bust into your home. Me and all the other guys in the squad laugh and snicker at people who use them, even when we're training them to use them."

b) "May I suggest that you get some practice with that PG shotgun, and then again with a full stock to assure that you will be capable of defending your family should the need ever arise? It's been my experience that they are lacking, and I'm concerned for your safety"

Which is the more polite choice for speaking to a fellow firearms enthusiast and human being?

Sounds like DrJones was practicing with his PG when he decided that he didn't hate it as much as he thought he would...

But may I suggest Doc that you check out a "youth" or other shorter LOP stock as a possible alternative? You still get a more compact package than the full stock, but you also have a solid platform to shoulder and fire from.

Good luck.
 
What Onslaught said. I don't think I heard anywhere that Doc said the thing is a magic wand or that it'll help cure cancer or be the 'special attack' button like the old 1980s videogames where all the bad guys on the screen die.

He just said it works for him better than he thought it would, which is more than I can say about myself since I never tried one out. While I don't like the idea of a long gun (esp a shotgun) not pinned to my shoulder, Doc says:
I know most people do not like nor recommend them, but I found it comfortable and accurate, and we're supposed to go with what works for us, and I think this is a winner for me.
Click to expand...
So that's good enough for me.

But what do I know, I'm one of those ninja wannabes anyway.
 
I am in agreement with what Correia and Dave said.

I also think it good that DRJ got both stocks.
that way he can satisfy himself.

Sam.....realistic training is when the other side makes you bleed.
 
Too bad you're peeved, Onslaught. Perhaps I could have been more diplomatic. But after a decade of trying to help the good guys win, this has gotten a bit old. The reason I keep trying is having the good guys win is important to me.

After spending literally months of my time helping lots of folks work their way through the maze and mists of mythic and Hollywierd shotgunning, I cut to the chase faster than I used to.

And chances are I've taught more folks to shoot from the hip than you can imagine. About 300 one summer. Not ONE scored nearly as well from the hip as they did conventionally. Some did OK, but the same amount of time, ammo and effort devoted to conventional shooting would have left them truly deadly instead of kinda dangerous.

And except for Badger Arms of Alaska, who has some storage concerns for his 12 gauge bear insurance, none of the shotgun cogniscienti I know or know of use a PG shotgun as a GP tool. Door breaching, yes. Save yo' butt, no.

Also, I do not see you or anyone else picking up the gauntlet I cast down. You may disagree with my method, but concur with my message.

Doc, hope you aren't offended. Stick around and feel free to ask questions. I promise not to bite again.
 
Too bad you're peeved, Onslaught. Perhaps I could have been more diplomatic.
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Hey Dave,
I wasn't calling any names, but I thought I was pretty obvious which "straw" broke the camel's back... and it wasn't you, or re1973
.... But thanks anyway for such an upstanding response!

True there were a few responses (like yours) that were a tad on the short side, but they still had some good info and genuine purpose in there somewhere. It's only those responses that are there simply for the sake of showing how much one "knows" or is experienced in the world that all us "armchair wannabe's wish we could live in" :rolleyes: that annoy me to the point of comment.

Take care, I gotta go figure out how to mount an infrared heat sensor to the front of my UberTac shotgun :D

*confidentially... you'd think an "operator" with that much experience would know how to spell "muzzle".
 
*confidentially... you'd think an "operator" with that much experience would know how to spell "muzzle".
Click to expand...

I can assure you I am no "operator." Most "operators" that I have met (and shot against) usually finish behind me in "any" course of fire.

Thanks for the "speeling leeson" smart guy.

Inasmuch as you were offended
It really annoys the CRAP out of me when someone who works in/around firearms, maybe LEO, maybe instructor, maybe gunstore counter commando chooses to share their knowledge and help a fellow enthusiast out with a condescending attitude.
Click to expand...
, maybe you should grow some skin. Or some balls with that type of disrespect.

No condescending attitude, just reality pal.

FYI, some of the best shooters are neither
someone who works in/around firearms, maybe LEO, maybe instructor, maybe gunstore counter commando
Click to expand...
or God forbid military.

Get out and shoot more often (and not just at the static range) and maybe you'll find that out.

By the way gun store should be two words, but I didn't expect anything less from a guy from Georgia.
 
No disrespect should be given to the good folks who live in Georgia, there are plenty of smart citizens in that state. Bad comment, JackStraw.
 
Byron Quick:

I'm in AR, I look in my phone book, nobody around here uses "Gunstore", or "gun store". "Gunsmith" is used as one word. Surprised I didn't see under "guns" ...see Walmart :) [tacky pill kicked in -sorry].

So I go here: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=Gunstore

I dunno, I've always spelled it as one word. Never bought a gun from WM, I have from Sears-Roebuck, and "the local hardware store". Hey I'm in AR, publik skoolin , we had guns in gym...may not know the spellin'...we did shoot them in skool though...:)
 
may not be the best choice,
but it looks like a fun choice:
ss3s.jpg

http://1919a4.com/gca/kcr-hkat-supershorty20.mpg (2.7 megs)
http://www.serbu.com/shorty.htm
http://www.impactguns.com/store/serbu_super_shorty12.html
 
Jack
No condescending attitude, just reality pal.- Jack
Click to expand...

Who's reality?

The good Doctors? It seems as if he has results that work for him, and I think that's a good thing.

Yours? It reads as if you have a different opinion that works for you. That's Good Too (tm).

Mine? My reality is that what works for me might not work for you, or the good Doctor. And that just doesn't matter.

What does matter is how people are treated here. Trolling for opportunities to prove your intellect or experience at the expense of others is not appreciated or expected. Besides, it truly just comes off as what it really is.
 
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