please don't bubba a mil-surp gun

[kungfuhippie]

Here's why: a brand new Zastava M70 Sporter 308, Single Trigger built on a new commercial m98 mauser action costs $470.

A m48 mauser, sporter stock, 308 barrel, new trigger, modern sights and all the time and misc. parts to put it together costs;
$180 good condition m48a (some stamped parts) $230 bell and carlson mauser sporter stock, $90 adams & bennet barrel, $20 sights, $50 trigger, and still extras

Total = $570 minimum for and equal quality rifle.

So yes you can cut corners, use the old stock and the same barrel, or keep the trigger, or whatever. But why not buy the new rifle and customize it if you want? I understand the joys of building your own rifle. This is just something I wanted to do to see what the difference would really be.

all prices are from midway and impactguns

 

[mustanger98]

Two things I'd do to the Zastava M70 in the photo:

Williams FP/TK rear sight (if available)
Limbsaver recoil pad (if available)

Other than that... well, it just depends. How's the trigger? And the front sight?

 

[carterbeauford]

I think alot of bubba-ing is done simply because bubba can, not because bubba wants to build a really nice rifle. There are good bubba jobs and there are bad.

Of course I could buy a nice bolt action CZ or something for as much as it costs to make a really nice, accurate SKS, but where's the fun in that? First time I've heard an argument against bubba-ing that wasn't based on a gun's historical value.

I can understand why some of us get frustrated when someone ruins a gun with significant historical value, like a folding stock on an M1 Garand. But is it really a crime to hard chrome an M38, put it in a synthetic stock and add a scope mount? You get a decent rifle for next to nothing. I am referring specifically to the version the guy from Classic Arms made up.

 

[P5 Guy]

Why not?

M48s are not WWII K98s and really have not historic value. Sporterizing was a fun hobby activity back in the 50s and 60s. Most of the guys that built hunting rifes from military surplus guns, at that time, did fine work. My Dad was one of those WWII vets that made a really fine M1903 hunting rifle from a beat up gun he bought out of a barrel of rifles at the hardware store in 1960. Converted to .270 later on. A real deer killer that one was.
But, I agree with you that a rifle of historic value should be kept original if possible.
P5

 

[kungfuhippie]

How's the trigger? And the front sight?

I own a mil-surp mauser, I was stupied when I first got into guns and put a scope mount thingy on the reciever for a Russian side-mt. scope and put on an ATI screw-on bent bolt. I've since replaced the bolt and removed the scope mount but the ugly scars remain. I wish I hadn't, I will get another Yugo mauser or two tht will remain original. But those scars remind me about some traits I have that I want to eliminate, jumping the gun, doing things cause they seem "cool" at the moment, etc.

I love the Zastava action, it's very smooth and well built. I can only imagine a brand new one would be great. I want one for deer (they come in several good hunting calibers, i just 308 for the example since it's most common) I figure I'd throw a good scope on it and if the trigger was what I imagine a $470 rifle's trigger should be try it out and modify it as desired. I wonder if they make a south-paw mauser M98 action?

 

[kungfuhippie]

Ok, I take it back

I just found the english side of their website, they are selling sporterized m48's and several other nice guns, check them out... http://www.zastava-arms.co.yu/english/civilni.htm

 

[Headless Thompson Gunner]

The advantage of building your own sporterized mauser isn't the cost savings (although you could do a nice job of it for under $400 if cost is an issue). The advantage is that you can have it built up exactly the way you want it, instead of being limited to one of the handful of configurations that are available off the shelf.

As for ruining a great piece of history, screw it. It's my rifle, my property. If I wanna chop it up that's my business. If you don't want any particular rifle to be sporterized, then buy it yourself and preserve it.

 

[kungfuhippie]

are most of these gun importable? carterbeauford, how about this sporter sks;

 

[rbernie]

As for ruining a great piece of history, screw it. It's my rifle, my property. If I wanna chop it up that's my business. If you don't want any particular rifle to be sporterized, then buy it yourself and preserve it.

Exactly. You don't have the right or ability to dictate the handling of the rifle until you buy it.

The advantage is that you can have it built up exactly the way you want it,

This is the biggest reason that I see folks still hack on old Mausers and the like. If I want a 6.5-284 or a 280AI in a controlled round feed kind of an action, well, the choices of factory offerings are pretty much nil. And frankly, it's a whole lot cheaper to build such a beast on a M48 or VZ24 action than it is to find a modern-day Zastava or Winnie M70 and start from that.

 

[carterbeauford]

carterbeauford, how about this sporter sks;

Beautiful! I love how the bottom of (what I assume is) the original magazine sits almost flush with the stock.

 

[kungfuhippie]

carterbeuford, it's a new production SKS not a conversion,

Zastava Arms LKP-66: Hunting version. No bayonet or bayonet lug. Sporting stock. Scope mount. 7 round magazine.

Not imported to the US at this time:banghead: I am emailing Century arms about this since they import the bolt actions and shotguns. Check out their website.
I never thought about them making new firearms before tonight...
eyecandy;

 

[MrDig]

Some people buy a Mil-surp so they can customize them some don't. I have some of both. if it's beat to h@!! and the SN's don't match why not?
On the other hand I'm proud of the restorations I have as well. My ishapore enfields have no significant military history so they are an easy but expensive choice to Tinker with. If I had a Mauser in pristine condition I would keep it that way. If on the other hand it was just a hundred dollar POS I might build a rifle around it. The ones worth keeping in original condition are getting harder to come buy and the ones that aren't are still plentiful.
Bottom line is If I spend my hard earned money that way I'm sorry it offends you.

 

[kungfuhippie]

Wow, i guess I came off wrong. I wouldn't be offended at a well done sporter. I've seen my share of nice ones as well as bubba'd ones. I just personally like keeping it original, I know for example you can get a nice 98K action at a gun show and barrel it up and put on a decent stock etc. for cheap and be proud of it. I just was looking at a financial comparison, since the Zastava I posted originally has a very nice walnut stock and all the parts you'd want for a sporter job. I've rebuilt and customized cars before guns and I've done reversable mods to other guns after the mauser (who will be getting an iron elite scope mount-100% reversable and a new stock etc. eventually) And I know you can't really get off the shelf a "perfect" gun but I'd bet most would be able to make that Zastava "perfect" with less time and money invested.

And all this is IMHO.

 

[dfaugh]

Well, I've done one (beat to heck Turk Mauser, crests ground off--no collector value) and I'm working on another on a VZ-24 action (similar condition). Both of these were made in the millions, and MIGHT be worth something in pristine condition, but there was no way to "salvage" them.

I've spent alot of time on auction sites scrounging parts.

I'll have between $200 and $250 dollars in each, including scopes/mounts. I get plenty of compliments at the range on the Turk.

On the converse side, I bought a 1918 SMLE at an auction, that Bubba had taken a saw to the stock. But all the metal is good, and matching numbers. SO, I found and purchased a stock w/ hardware, on an auction site, and I'm restoring it to "as new" (or as close as I can!)

So, you see, it can go both ways

 

[davek]

My very favorite rifle is a sporterized '98 Krag. I have no idea who did it (I inherited it from my Grandad) but whoever it was, they were an artist IMHO.












...and to make matters worse, it's got some kind of freaky improved chamber and I was able to shoot a .25" 4 round group with hand loads. The two "flyers" were fowling shots and to see if I was even on paper.

 

[Jackal]

A m48 mauser, sporter stock, 308 barrel, new trigger, modern sights and all the time and misc. parts to put it together costs;
$180 good condition m48a (some stamped parts) $230 bell and carlson mauser sporter stock, $90 adams & bennet barrel, $20 sights, $50 trigger, and still extras

==== The experience gained by tinkering, priceless.

 

[kfranz]

Holy crap, who pays $180 for a good condition M48 if you're gonna replace a bunch of crap on it anyway? Actually, come to think of it, who pays $180 for a good condition M48?

all the parts you'd want for a sporter job

What makes you think everyone wants the same thing in a "sporter"? Me, I'm gonna hack the barrel on a beat up Turk Mauser I've got laying around, chop the stock to fit, and call it done. If I get to feeling really frisky, I might even go the short barrel/perm flash hider route, just to have something shorter than my FR8. No replacement parts, no engraving, no silliness. Just a shooter....

But why not buy the new rifle and customize it if you want? I understand the joys of building your own rifle. This is just something I wanted to do to see what the difference would really be.

There is so much contradiction between that statement and the title of the post that it is difficult to know just exactly what you are saying.

 

[jd46561]

Hack away , makes my rifles worth more. And the more I can buy up and keep out of Bubbas hands the better!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Lonestar.45]

I don't agree with bubba'ing up an original milsurp. But like others have said, if it's your gun, you own it, you can do what you want with it. Just means my originals will be worth more. I do own a few sporterized milsurps and I like shooting them. Most of them were made back in the 50's and 60's when the surplus stores were awash in Enfields and '03's that went for $20 or so. A lot of pristine guns fell to Bubba's hacksaw back then. I don't think we see near the amount of bubba jobs being performed these days.

For me, it's hard to justify doing a bubba job when you can buy a brand new Mossberg ATR or similar rifle for $250 that'll probably outshoot any milsurp. But, to each his own.

That Bubba, he don't always make sense with what he does, and there ain't no point in tryin' to change his ways. All you can do is sit back and snicker at his antics.

 

[MCgunner]

It's my money and I'll do what I want! There is no shortage of SKS rifles and what history do they have, anyway? I don't give a squat about the gun's history anyway, it's just a gun. If it'd belonged to Billy the Kid or something, well, yeah, but just an old milsurp?

 

[Essex County]

I realy am fed up with the elitist attitude...........

That you can't touch a Mil-Surp. I own about 15 at the present time and all are unaltered but this winter I'm going to restock, reblue, shorten the barrel, add good sights, etc. to one of my 91-30s. Why? For no other reason than I wish to. Please feel free to Howl away.........Essex

 

[ArmedBear]

Same Zastava, with a laminate stock and a thicker buttpad. Remington sells them as the 798 and 799.

True enough re customizing a Mauser. I looked into it.

The only reason to customize a Mauser action is to make a REALLY nice rifle, not a cheap one.

 

[kungfuhippie]

The only reason to customize a Mauser action is to make a REALLY nice rifle, not a cheap one.

Makes sense to me. I love my Steyr m95 stutzen, if I could make a custom one in .270 or .308 I'd love that. I really love the straight-pull bolt, the 8x56r is just very hard to come by and you've gotta reload if you want a hunting load for it. Anyone know where I can get the parts to fix one up?

 

[kfranz]

Anyone know where I can get the parts to fix one up?

What parts do you need? Compete M95's go for less than $100. If you're gonna restock it anyway, you can get complete rifles with cracked stocks (mine have never been more than a split handguard)for less than $75.

Coles has the ammo. Certainly not as cheap as standard 8mm, but it's cheaper than surplus 7.62x51 at the moment...

 

[kungfuhippie]

I know they're cheap, and most of the recent imported 95/30s are parts guns anyway. I would have to figure out the mannlicher clip thing, and get a nice barrel fitted not to mention a nice stock... Wonder if I could find a gunsmith crazy, and tallented, enough to turn it into a lefthanded bolt. (unlike the k31 it seems it'd only take a little skill with a welder and heat treating... Now I'm gonna go crazy with photoshop ideas! yet another thread:banghead:

Oh and it'd look sharp next to the m95 stutzen (not a 95/30 carbine) I'm fixing up at the moment, that sure was a find.