Please tell me what you think.

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Lew Rodd

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American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control) and this is only CHILDREN.
Is this the price we must pay to live in a FREE country?
 
I imagine the proportions are probably comparable for automobile deaths, poisoning by ingestion of household chemicals, and health problems related to obesity. For starters, we have more people than any of those countries... but you're right. Maybe we should ban children. They obviously are dangerous around guns.
:D

Okay, that's a joke... but still: my one kid? Enough. One gun? Maybe not.:evil:
 
First of all you need to give better reference in regards to your numbers . What year are you talking about ? What age group is refered to as children ? Put a link to your data because I can't find the numbers you refer to.

Second , even if the numbers are correct and an apples to apples comparison the answer to your question is yes . How many people lost their lives to make this a free country ? How many servicemen have lost their lives to keep this a free country ?

Often times the word children is used to represent people up to age 21 and behond which puts the numbers in a whole different light as well.

Thats what I think .
 
lets see, china is starting to rattle sabers against Japan, and all four of the other countries crime rates are going through the roof, mostly from foreign invaders and Islamlo-nazis. Also in those other countries, if you try to defend yourself with a weapon in your own home or business, you will be arrested and tried, and sometimes sued by the criminal. France themself is about 5 years away from becoming an Islamist state. How would you stack up your freedoms by living there?
In America, over the last 30 years, anywhere from 500,000 to 1.5 million crimes are stopped every year by people with guns, these are stats anyone can find out by going to the F.B.I home page or other federal pages on crime stats.
This kind of crime prevention takes place by average citizens who are armed, not government forces like in other countries. You will also never hear about any other government forces in any other country that PREVENTED this many crimes in their countries, respectively.
So the next time a sociopath breaks into your house looking for a little rape or whatnot, please feel free to call the police. One more thing though, it has allready been decided by state and fed courts in this country that police are under no law or obligation , to help any specific person during the commission of a crime, unless they are actually at the site of the crime , and witnessing it. In other words, they do not ever have to come to your aid, unless the are witnessing the crime taking place.
 
by the way, those stats you parrot, include "children" up to 19 years old, which include drug addicts, allready hardened criminals, and gangbangers. More children, die in this country every year up to the age of 8, by drowning in a bathtub or a 5 GALLON BUCKET, than any other type of accident. i suppose we should outlaw these items.
 
American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control) and this is only CHILDREN.
Is this the price we must pay to live in a FREE country?


First, the CDC thinks 19 year olds are CHILDREN. Here is a direct quote from the CDC page listing "Youths" as adults up to the age of 29 years!

FROM THEW CDC:
" Youth violence is defined as: “The intentional use of physical force or power, threatened or actual, exerted by or against children, adolescents or young adults, ages 10–29, which results in or has a high likelihood of resulting in injury, death, psychological harm, maldevelopment, or deprivation” (Mercy et al. 2002)."

I'm not sure how some 25+ year old gangbangers, or a 29 year old are supposed to be "youths". I'd classify them as ADULTS!

I searched the CDC, and could find no statistics that back up your claim, or any other real statistics that did not include adults in the equation.

Where ever you got your statistics from are wrong. Most antigun groups who publish stats on Child or Youth violence or deaths include what the majority of people would consider ADULTS. The only way for them to get High Numbers (and their "One child is murdered every day by guns" bull****) is to inflate the statistics with adults, not limiting the age range to just children.


Second, do a search and find the NON GUN Homocide rates or the total homicide rates for children in the other countries and compare. You will find then even in areas without guns, children are still killed by other means. Removing guns does not stop homicides:


Here are the REAL facts:

* FACT: 82% of homicides to children age 13 and under were committed without a gun. (1997, FBI Uniform Crime Statistics)

* FACT: 0.1% of all deaths for children between the ages 0-14 are from firearms, 0.6% are from motor vehicles, 5.3% are from being struck in beatings or bludgeoning, 6.0% from poisoning, and 42.6% from suffocation. (1997 National Center for Health Statistics National Vital Statistics Report)

A sad fact is that a child is more likely to be smothered by a pillow, strangled or beaten to death, poisoned intentionally with rat killer or drain cleaner, or even strapped into a car seat and rolled into a lake than ever be shot by a gun!

* FACT: In 1996 there were only 21 accidental gun deaths for children under age 15. About twice as many children under 10 die from drowning in bathtubs.
(Center for Disease Control)

Here are the FACTS that the antigunners twist into the CHILDREN STATISTICS.
* FACT: Two-thirds of the people that die each year from gunfire are criminals shooting other criminals. (FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1994)

* FACT: 18-20 year olds commit over 23% of all gun murders. None of these criminals are allowed to purchase a handgun due to their age under current law. (U.S. Treasury and Justice Dept. Report, 1999)

In reality, most of the YOUTH gun deaths (that are twisted into CHILD STATS are from Criminals shooting each other over gang turf, drugs etc. I'm not sure I would classify a 16 year old gangbanger as a Child, or a 17 year old drug dealer who was shot selling crack on the wrong corner.


When you look at REAL Crime and Violence statistics you will see:

* FACT: 90% of all violent crime in the U.S. does not involve any gun of any type. (1998 Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms)

* FACT: Less than 1% of all guns will ever be used in the commission of any type of crime (much less violent crime). (FBI Uniform Crime Statistics, 1994)


* FACT: Every day, 550 rapes, 1,100 murders, and 5,200 other violent crimes per day are prevented just by showing a handgun. In less than 0.9% of the time is the gun ever actually ever fired. (Gary Kleck, Criminologist, Florida State Univ)

* FACT: Every year, people in the United States use a gun to defend themselves against criminals an estimated 2,500,000 times- more than 6,500 people a day, or once every 13 seconds. (1995, Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology)

* FACT: There are more guns in the U.S. than cars (228,000,000 guns according to the 1998 FBI statistics and 207,754,000 automobiles according to the 1998 Federal Highway Administration registrations). Yet, you are 31 times more likely to be accidentally killed by a car than a gun according to the National Safety Council…despite cars having been registered and licensed for more than 100 years.

Take your antigun trolling elsewhere.
 
Lew Rodd,

"WE" are not paying that price. Irresponsible parents are paying that price.

-Dev
 
Lewis, what are you talking about?

According to the CDC in 2002:
60 children (0-14 years old) died from an accidental discharge of a firearm.​
263 children were murdered by the discharge of a firearm.​
7 children died by discharge of firearms due to undetermined intent.​
That adds up to 330 child deaths by firearm.

The total number of child deaths was 40,042. So you're concerned about 0.8% of child deaths. 5245 children died in accidents, so firearm accidents account for only 1.1% of accidental deaths.

If you want to save the children why don't you focus on the bigger threats to a child's life:
Septicemia
Malignant neoplasms
Heart disease
Cerebrovascular diseases
Pneumonia
Motor vehicle accidents
Falls
Drowning and submersion
Exposure to smoke, fire and flames
Poisoning and exposure to noxious substances
Suicide
Complications of medical and surgical care
etc etc

And be very careful when you attempt to compare rates across countries, since each has their own methodology.
 
First, welcome to The High Road! If you want honest, insightful answers to your question, you've come to the right place. Thought they may not be the answers you expect.

In one year,
Which year?

firearms killed no children in Japan,
So, the ones killed by drowning are acceptable? How about the ones poisoned by drinking household cleaning products? Did no children die in Japan during whichever year you've chosen to illustrate your argument?

and this is only CHILDREN
What ages qualify as "children" in this study? How many are 17-21 year old gang members? How many were self-defense shootings?

Please cite your sources. And as for saving "the children" from accidental injury or death by firearm, look into the NRA's Eddie Eagle program.
 
"In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control)"

- Lew Rodd
________________________________________________________________

"In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States."

- www.bradycampaign.org/facts/issues/?page=kids
________________________________________________________________

Tsk, tsk. :D

John
 
The ratio of guns to children in my home is about 10:1. So far, the children and guns have been well behaved and there have been no issues with the guns going after them.
 
And what year are these statistics from??? (sources please)
Just for arguments sake how many children were killed by motor vehicle accidents in that same year? And is this the price we must pay to live in a FREE country? :barf:
 
Let's not be too harsh, folks. Lew is obviously simply citing the lies posted on the Brady website. Unfortunately, many people are uninformed, and believe their lies. At least Lew had the intelligence to seek out the facts, here. I just hope he will now confront whoever steered him the Brady, and explain the truth. ;)
 
Without looking it up I would think the USA has more children population wise than the other countries mentioned, so I suppose we would just have bigger numbers for almost any type of death? Me...I am more worried about the biggest deadly weapon which I deal with everyday...Idiots behind the wheel of a car. If we just outlawed cars think of the lives we would be saving. LOL:rolleyes:
 
Lew Rodd said:
American children are more at risk from firearms than the children of any other industrialized nation. In one year, firearms killed no children in Japan, 19 in Great Britain, 57 in Germany, 109 in France, 153 in Canada, and 5,285 in the United States. (Centers for Disease Control) and this is only CHILDREN.
Is this the price we must pay to live in a FREE country?

With possibly a handful of exceptions from faulty or damaged items, firearms don't kill anybody. The only way a firearm can kill somebody is if it is not working properly which causes an accident.

Also as others have pointed out, that statistic is padded with figures from young adults added in, whom I would surmise count for a significant portion of that figure.

The correct thing to say would be that among children and young adults, XXX number of people were killed by a murderer who happened to use a firearm. And odds are very good that too would be wrong because I don't know what they're counting here: homicides, accidents, suicides, or what?

In the words of Archie Bunker, would you prefer they were all pushed out of windows?
 
Hey everyone ~

This is The High Road. We don't need to stoop to insulting guests, even guests we don't agree with. The facts are on our side, as anyone with an honest eye can see.

When you insult visitors, all you're doing is saying that you cannot argue the facts, so instead you'll make a lot of rude noise about the other side.

pax
 
Child?

There are some 29 year olds I don't trust with a pencil eraser. On the other hand my grandfather was mature enough at 17 years of age to take a rifle and pistol to Japan.

Husker, guns are one thing but threatening the guy with Kennedy's car? :what: People have been killed by those things!

Enjoy!
 
...Hmm an Aussieseek rejectee ?

Original post is a direct quote from the Brady website, and on that note, WELCOME TROLL!

Lew Rodd, welcome to THR. Congratulations, you win this month's new poster award, and are entitled to an all expenses-paid tour of Chappaquiddick, MA with your chauffeur, Mr. Theodore Kennedy. There will be NO FIREARMS allowed, since it's in that uber-safe, Brady-approved state of Massachusets.

In Lew's defense, it is possible that he's merely a fence-sitter that came across that on the VPC website or wherever and is trying to get both sides. Give 'em a break, folks.

Lew-

Take another look at Beachmaster's post. Then, check his sources. I think you'll find they kinda blow the GC crowd's argument out of the water.:)
 
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