Plot thickens regarding Wi hunter incident.

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but why isn't there an outcry for this to be investigated and prosecuted as a hate crime?!
because it isnt a crime to hate white people. but if i were to even utter the words "black", "hispanic", "jewish" everyone assumes its with malice or hatred.
its like were at the point where the majority of us are conditioned to think in terms of race/ethnicity as being derogatory.
 
Hopefully it won't be, as "hate crime"s is a load of crap, regardless of who it's applied to.... :rolleyes:
 
"Hate crimes" have been going on as long as there have been differences between groups of people. It's only just recently that the phenomenon has found a name, specific laws, and a place in the FBI's UCR. Crimes are generally classified as acts/results, but "hate crimes" tie together various acts of differing nature and severity, all by motivation. Prosecuting this case as a "hate crime" would be inappropriate.

I'm not a hunter and never have been, so I gotta ask a question. Why would 8 hunters be in the woods and only one of them armed? I don't understand and am curious.

Hunting can be as much a mini-vacation or just hanging out with friends and family as anything else. Not everyone who goes on a hunting trip wants to shoot animals. Many just hang with family and friends. Of the hunters, not everyone always packs a firearm during breaks or leisure time.

FBI may be involved because Vang crossed state lines, and to check correlations with other shootings, eg, possible serial offenses because of the nature of this offense. May just be a presence in the case unless something more concrete pops up.
 
The main question I have is, WHY ONLY ONE RIFLE?! You have seven folks hunting, but only one rifle. In Alaska if you had seven people hunting you'd probably have twenty firearms, not one. Is it common practice in WI for only the guy who's going to take the deer to be armed?

Edit--just saw the above response. It must be a very different culture over there. I'm surprised, since I hear there's a fair number of banditos and meth makers in the north woods. I for one can't imagine walking around the woods without some firepower, even if I don't plan on hunting.
 
Is it common practice in WI for only the guy who's going to take the deer to be armed?

It all depends upon where you are hunting and what you are doing. For example, I was hunting (in WI) this past weekend. When out in the woods, I had a rifle and a pistol. Everyone else simply carried a rifle. Yu have to remember that Wisconsin has no provision for concealed carry, and the idea of open carry is theoretically legal, but as-yet untested in the courts. There is not a culture (among the general populace) of carrying guns for self-defense.

In our case, when we came back in to the house, everyone would unload and leave the firearms out in the garage. This was largely due to the fact that it was an extended family get-together, and inside there were little kids running around.

So, say it's noon on Sunday where I was hunting. At that time, even though there were 10 hunters, only two of us were actually in the field. Everyone else was back at the house either processing game, eating lunch or watching TV. If I'd keyed my Motorola radio and said that I'd been shot, unless I specified that there was some nutjob present and still shooting, I would bet that most of the folks wouldn't have bothered to grab guns first. They would have just hopped in the trucks and driven out to the stands, calling 911 on the way.

The fact of the matter is that this was one of those watershed events. Before this past weekend, trespassing normally was resolved if not politely, then at least without bloodshed. I would bet that from now on, anyone responding to a call for help will be far more likely to grab a gun first.
 
I call BS on the allegations that they were calling him ethnic slurs. It just doesn't pass the common sense test that a group of hunters with only 1 firearm between them would call a man armed with an SKS a _____ anything.
 
I call BS on the allegations that they were calling him ethnic slurs. It just doesn't pass the common sense test that a group of hunters with only 1 firearm between them would call a man armed with an SKS a _____ anything.
I dunno. You can't discount the pack mentality. Plus, who knows the background and personalities of the victims? Were they goobers or regular working family men type folk? I don't know anything about Wisconsin or the makeup of the people there, but it seems there was tension between the locals and the 'hmong' immigrants anyway.
 
It continues to grow....

NEILLSVILLE, Wis. (AP) - The Clark County Sheriff's Department is investigating whether there is a link between the man suspected of killing six deer hunters in northern Wisconsin this week and the unsolved murder of a hunter three years ago.

"We jumped on it right away, my detective who is in charge of this," Clark County Sheriff Louis Rosandich said Wednesday. "This incident which occurred in Clark County is not out of the minds of our citizens or anyone else."

Jim Southworth, 37, of Medford, was shot to death Nov. 23, 2001, as he hunted alone on family land 10 miles east of Neillsville.

Rosandich said investigators immediately got in touch with officials in Sawyer County to share information after six hunters were killed and two others wounded in a shootout Sunday.

"Of course the case which has occurred over in Sawyer County, it does certainly perk our interest, but it is too premature to make any determination as to a link to the Clark County incident of 2001," he said. "We're hoping that the information they gain may help us in solving our case."

An autopsy found Southworth was shot twice in the back, and court records say several of those killed Sunday were shot in the back.


Sketch of one of the suspects in the 2001 killing of Jim Southworth.
In the Southworth killing, hunters in the area reported seeing a pickup truck with three Asian men in it in the area where Southworth's body was found, Rosandich said. It happened about 80 miles south of Sunday's shooting.

The three men were described as Asian, from 5-foot-4 inches to 6-feet tall, driving a silver or gray Nissan or Chevrolet pickup truck, possibly a late 1980s model.

Chai Vang, 36, of St. Paul, Minn., who is being held on $2.5 million bond in the Sawyer County shootings, is 5-foot-4, according to a court document.

Citing an unnamed online search engine, the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported Wednesday that Vang has owned a 1987 pickup truck.

Sawyer County authorities say a dispute over a tree stand on private property likely sparked this week's shooting, and one of the theories in Southworth's murder was that he may have been shot after confronting a trespasser. His body was found about 200 yards from his tree stand.

Vang, a St. Paul truck driver, had an out-of-state license to hunt in Wisconsin during 2001, said Mike Bartz, a Department of Natural Resources warden manager. He also had licenses in 2000, 2002 and this year.

Rosandich said his department has pursued numerous leads, but "nothing has really benefited us in getting any closer at solving this case."

"We've kind of been at this dead end since this case started," he said.

He said investigators handed out fliers and other information in Wisconsin's Asian community, but they were never able to even come up with possible identities for the men reported in the area.

Rosandich said officials from the state Justice Department already were involved in the Clark County case, and are assisting in the Sawyer County investigation. Justice Department spokesman Brian Rieselman said officials would not comment on a possible link in the cases.

Sawyer County Sheriff James Meier said he was unaware of any connection. "None, except for maybe the Asian connection. That is a lot of speculation," Meier said.

There is a $50,000 reward for information in Southworth's death
 
A pickup truck was seen in the area of the killing. He owns a pickup truck. He must be guilty.

Nice selective quoting. You conveniently omitted that it may have been the same make of truck covering the same years of manufacture, and that the incident, like this one, involved three Asian men (see my posting of a similar article on the previous page), and that the height description match. Not hanging evidence, but funny that you decided to omit that. The article, as mine, makes clear that no conclusions can be drawn at this time and that it's being investigated.
 
Yes, I'll admit that I oversimplified that a bit too much. The posted story isn't jumping to unwarranted conclusions; it's merely pointing out possible connections, which may warrant further investigation. So I was premature about reacting to people jumping to unproven conclusions. :eek:
 
The hunters only had one firearms among them. I'm betting its is illegal in that state to have a loaded firearm on an ATV (thats how the victims were moving around).

Chalk this tragedy up to another stupid gun control law.
 
Nice selective quoting. You conveniently omitted that it may have been the same make of truck covering the same years of manufacture, and that the incident, like this one, involved three Asian men (see my posting of a similar article on the previous page), and that the height description match. Not hanging evidence, but funny that you decided to omit that. The article, as mine, makes clear that no conclusions can be drawn at this time and that it's being investigated.
That IS strange. It will be very interesting to see if ballistics match the
weapon. Stranger things have happened. Anyway you look at it, this is
going to be a real sad time for at least 6 families, maybe 7 this holiday and
the times to come. Very very tragic...:(
 
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Illegal to have a firearm on an ATV?!! That's pretty outrageous. My bet is a lot of folks in the woods are ignoring the gun laws for the time being.
 
QUOTE-
Illegal to have a firearm on an ATV?!! That's pretty outrageous. My bet is a lot of folks in the woods are ignoring the gun laws for the time being.

I believe, one county in N WIS it is illegal to transport any game with a ATV during the gun season.

Just what I heard. There are some -dumb- laws in the sate.
:fire:
 
Here it is you cant ride a atv except to and from blind or transport of you gear or game durning the season.

i know other states are like this too
 
The law in wisconsin requires that a firearm be fully encased and unloaded while being transported by any motor vehicle- RV, ATV, Boat, Automobile.
If some of the victims rode out on ATVs, it would have been a big hassle to bring a rifle along, especially if they didn't have a gun rack/ ATV gun carrier.
 
Actually, I'd not be surprised at all for a group like that to insult one person, even with that person carrying an SKS.
Any time you get a group of people together, they can quickly be influenced by someone in the group who says something stupid, falling into a mob mentality.
People confronted voters carrying weapons across the country during the election. Pretty bold considering one of them might have gone off. It didn't stop the others from confronting them however.
Still, this incident definitely is not self-defense.
 
Any time you get a group of people together, they can quickly be influenced by someone in the group who says something stupid, falling into a mob mentality.

That would be all fine and dandy until you read the report a find out that most of the people didn't arrive until the first person was shot and called for help on the radio...

I'm starting to get it now, I must be slow on the uptake, Vang was just exercising his God given 2nd amendment rights. How silly of me to think this could be a massacre with most of the people shot in the back.
 
From all the available evidence my original hypotheses still stands.
1- He was attempting to eliminate all the witnesses
2- He was overwhelmed when they appeared when called by radio.
3- He decided to break off the attack as more people showed up. He cut and ran.

Other things that need investigation.
Where is the other two he was seen to be with also Asian? This was reported in the first days.

Is he or they also associated with the murder in 2001 80 miles away? Also three Asian men.

From a statistical point of view it is highly probable that the two events are related, but maybe not.

Could just be simply a group of mass murderers.

Now before I'm flamed for jumping to conclusions. Investigation is just looking at all possible scenarios to determine the truth, which is what everyone is doing in this thread.
 
"Illegal to have a firearm on an ATV?!! That's pretty outrageous. My bet is a lot of folks in the woods are ignoring the gun laws for the time being."

That's the law here in MN too. You just get a hard-sided case that's like a big scabbard with a flip-up closure on the back.

Mitigated somewhat by also carrying a sidearm. You still cannot shoot game from your ATV, which I think is a good law.
 
What about the victim's rifle?

Funny how you hear all about the Saiga (at first reported as an SKS) that the perp used -- with all sorts of speculation as whether it's ethical for hunting deer or if it holds too many rounds, but we hear nothing whatsoever about the rifle the first victim used.

And some say the media isn't biased. :rolleyes:
 
Comments, Questions, and Thoughts

1. I live in Mn and have hunted MN and WI for grouse and deer for the last 25 years. I know the area in WI around where this happened and my former partner (and best man) lives and owns land within 25 miles of where this happened. In all my time hunting (although I avoid the weekends), I have never seen a native american or asian in the woods.

2. Since the early 1990s when Twin Cities church congregations and other such groups decided to "sponsor" Hmung immigrants to improve our "diversity" there has developed a pattern of regular and egregious game and criminal law violations by the Hmung in MN. These include killing song birds in city neighborhoods for the pot, garbage bags full of panfish from city lakes, deer and small game taken throughout the year, and numerous other offenses reported by the MN DNR and in area newspapers and media outlets. These are, of course, the acts of individuals and cannot be construed against all Hmung people. Since MN adopted an electronic license issuing system with central data base several years ago, I have witnessed license applicants including Hmung being turned away and being told to contact the DNR in St. Paul directly. I will be interested to know why Vang was hunting in WI and paying for a nonresident license there. Could his MN hunting privileges have been revoked?

3. The Saiga was derived from the AK, not the SKS, and was designed to be considered a sporting rifle. I believe until a couple of months ago the Saiga was subject to the assault rifle magazine ban and was only available with 5rd magazines. If it is true Vang had a 20rd magazine in his Saiga, where and when did he get this magazine and why was he using it for deer hunting? Successful deer hunting in my experience rarely requires more than a couple of cartridges.

4. It is incredible to me that Vang is claiming that between the time he was fired upon and when he first returned fire that he reversed his orange vest to camo and removed the scope from his Saiga.

5. My wife's family used to own 160 acres of abandoned farm land in northern MN on the Iron Range that was prime grouse and deer habitat. After I joined the family, a consensus came about to post the property against hunting rather than purchase insurance or risk loss of the land should anyone be injured or killed. After posting the land against trespass according to MN statutory requirements, I was up there for several opening deer season days contacting trespassing hunters to explain the land was posted against hunting and why. I would not dream of approaching an armed trespassing stranger and being anything other than completely civil. I was also well armed and ready for any response. The people I had to send away were not happy, but we kept everything civil.
 
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