Plus P Plus? +P+?

[Coldfinger]

I've been reloading getting on 2 decades. I can figure most things out. I really can't wrap my stupid brain around +P+ brass. Maybe +P
Correct me if I'm wrong but there isn't a +P rated pistol out there. They are 9mm or 9x19 and that's that. The case has to be dimensionally correct to function. So basically the only way to get more "pressure" is to decrease case capacity or add more propellant. So I guess what I'm getting at here is Whats up with +P+ brass? Is there any difference between it and normal 9mm brass? How do they make certain rounds +P? Is there published load data to achieve +P+ pressure or like I'm known to do, just keep increasing powder until I see pressure signs and back off a tiny bit? I only load "hot" in firearms I know can take it and firearms that allow me to replace the parts that get beat up by doing so. I'm not trying to pick a scab I'm legitimately curious.

Goose

 

[troy fairweather]

The brass is exactly the same, the head stamp just helps identify its +p or +p+

 

[fxvr5]

First, there are +P rated 9mm pistols, or at least one, the Remington R51.

The +P added to some brass is just used for loaders to identify that's loaded differently, but there are no changes to the brass itself. See Starline 38 Special +P and 9mm +P brass at their website.

There might or might not be changes with +P+ brass to make it hold the +P+ pressure. It depends on if the manufacturer feels their standard brass will work with the extra pressure.

There is no +P+ pressure limit that I'm aware of, since in current form it just means the pressure is above the +P limit set by SAAMI.

 

[fxvr5]

The brass is exactly the same, the head stamp just helps identify its +p or +p+

There are lots of companies that make brass and I suspect that might not be true for all of them, unless you have data to back that up. Do you?

Starline's 45 ACP +P brass has thicker walls than their regular 45 ACP brass, and this reduces case capacity. See their website.

 

[troy fairweather]

There are lots of companies that make brass and I suspect that might not be true for all of them, unless you have data to back that up. Do you?

Starline's 45 ACP +P brass has thicker walls than their regular 45 ACP brass, and this reduces case capacity. See their website.

I remember reading on starlines website it's the same brass for the +p stuff.

 

[fxvr5]

I remember reading on starlines website it's the same brass for the +p stuff.

Only for their 38 Special and 9mm (and their 38 Super +P compared to their 38 Super), but it does not apply to their 45 ACP.

And, Starline is just one company.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

That case on the left of Coldfinger's picture is Nato brass. As far as I know there is no SAAMI rating for anything over +p, it isn't recognized By SAAMI.

Anything that exceeds 9mm +p pressure that isn't recognized by SAAMI would need to be labeled something other than 9mm or 9MM +p so some companies took it upon themselves to invent the +P+ headstamp on their own.
Shoot at your own risk .
9 Major comes to mind.

 

[Toprudder]

And most people (that I have talked to at the range) have no idea that NATO 9mm is somewhere between normal and +P pressure.

 

[fxvr5]

That case on the left of Coldfinger's picture is Nato brass. As far as I know there is no SAAMI rating for anything over +p, it isn't recognized By SAAMI.

Anything that exceeds 9mm +p pressure that isn't recognized by SAAMI would need to be labeled something other than 9mm or 9MM +p so some companies took it upon themselves to invent the +P+ headstamp on their own.
Shoot at your own risk .
9 Major comes to mind.

No, the case on the left is NOT Nato brass. It's the brass used by Winchester for their +P+ ammo, like their 127 Ranger +P+. Winchester's Nato brass just has their stamp and year, and most importantly the Nato stamp (circle with cross).

 

[Coldfinger]

So basically the brass is the same it's only loaded "hotter" meaning standard 9mm is pretty conservative?

 

[Coldfinger]

Western Cartridge Company..... an argument can be made that they produce military ammo. An argument can also be made that its missing the Nato circle n cross. The argument can be made that the primer wasn't crimped but sealed. I'm retired Army and I fired tons of 9mm thru the M9. Never once did I load and fire a nickle plated case let alone any with +P or +P+ designation. So I dunno there.

 

[sevt_chevelle]

That TSO in your picture, plenty of guys running those in games shooting 9mm major.

 

[edwardware]

So basically the brass is the same it's only loaded "hotter" meaning standard 9mm is pretty conservative?

Some ammo might be "conservative", ie much lower than max pressure, but the Standard isn't "conservative. . . it's the Standard.

+P+ is just outside the Standard. Because Og says, "More Better!"

 

[TxWolf]

My S&W M&P 2.0 9mm owners manual says it’s ok to shoot +P from it. I have wondered also what the manufactures do to make ammo +p. Just assumed more of the same powder or a faster one. Figured SAMMI specs on stuff like 9mm and 38spcl are conservative because of the older firearms that are chambered for them that may not handle hotter ammo.

 

[fxvr5]

Jeez, people. This is not a guessing game. The nickel +P+ brass in your picture is as I described it. I have that ammo and have shot it and still have brass from it. I have Winchester's Nato ammo, and it is as I described it.

Federal also has a 115 grain +P+ round and that brass is also marked +P+.

 

[TxWolf]

So how do the wall thicknesses compare! If the case walls are thicker therefore making the ID smaller to create more pressure wouldn’t that also give you more tension on the bullet when it’s seated! Just curious here.
EDIT: never mind. Just reread you post.

 

[fxvr5]

You don't necessarily need thicker case walls where it holds the bullet. They would only need to make thicker case walls near the head where that area might not be supported by the chamber.

 

[TxWolf]

That would make sense.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

No, the case on the left is NOT Nato brass. It's the brass used by Winchester for their +P+ ammo, like their 127 Ranger +P+. Winchester's Nato brass just has their stamp and year, and most importantly the Nato stamp (circle with cross).

And you better look again at the lower left of the left hand brass in the picture.
Looks like a circle with a cross to me.

 

[markr6754]

First, there are +P rated 9mm pistols, or at least one, the Remington R51.

The Honor Guard 9, by Honor Defense is also +P rated. All pistols are tested with a 9mm Proof Load. All pistols are tested with this http://www.ammo-one.com/9mmBlackHillProof.html before leaving the factor...the fired case is included with the pistol.

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Coldfinger, can you give us a close up of that case?

 

[fxvr5]

And you better look again at the lower left of the left hand brass in the picture.
Looks like a circle with a cross to me.

Nope. It's stamped WCC+P+ 95.

95 means it was made in 1995.

There is no Nato stamp on it.

 

[TxWolf]

looks like a 9 and a 5. Not a cross

 

[TxWolf]

So how do they get the higher pressures to make it a +P+ ? Faster powders?

 

[tightgroup tiger]

Thank you. I stand corrected.