Pocket Carry and Driving

[Craig_AR]

My preferred concealed carry mode is pocket carry, with a good pocket holster. Realistically, when seat-belted into the driver's seat, that gun is essentially not accessible. I've been testing an approach that I can use in most modern sedans, and does not require a car-seat holster or storage box. It does require remembering a few steps each time I enter and exit the car.
As I get seated in the vehicle, I move the gun still kept in the holster into the storage pocket on the back of the front passenger seat. In that pocket the gun is completely concealed; as long as the passenger seat is positioned a bit forward relative to my driver's seat, I can easily reach the gun and draw it from that position while still belted in.
Added aspects:
1. I have to get into a new habit sequence of moving the gun back and forth on each use of the vehicle- a slight negative.
2. By moving the holster and gun together, I am never openly handling the gun in the vehicle, as I would need to do if moving it between my pocket and a car-seat holster or box - a positive.
3. I cannot always conceal this process from passengers, so they will know that I am carrying - a possible negative.

Thoughts and comments?
Please note that added investments of a second car gun with storage solution are for a different discussion. Looking for comments on this particular in-car solution.

 

[Browning]

I pocket carry a Walther PPS sometimes and when I do as I go to get in the truck I take the holstered pistol and shove it in the door pocket. Easily accessible with my left hand if need be.

 

[Steve in PA]

My advice is to never, ever rely on carrying off-body in a vehicle. Way too many issues that can prevent you from reaching your firearm or becoming separated from your firearm.

Pocket carry is an extremely difficult method of carry when seated, either in a chair or a vehicle. My advice; ankle carry if you don't want to carry IWB or OWB.

 

[MedWheeler]

I take it you rarely have rear-seat riders?

Ruling out a second gun, and still wanting to have yours accessible when driving, leaves you with pretty much what you're doing. I'd use a center console if one is available rather than the seat pocket.

When I moonlighted delivering pizzas, I kept a (second, bigger) gun in a holster clipped beneath the steering column. I'd bet that such a holster would hold your pocket-holster/pistol combo, but discretion would be lost.

 

[Tony k]

When I moonlighted delivering pizzas, I kept a (second, bigger) gun in a holster clipped beneath the steering column. I'd bet that such a holster would hold your pocket-holster/pistol combo, but discretion would be lost.

That's how I do it. Pocket carry a Cm9 and have a 1911 under the steering column.

 

[Plan2Live]

I kept a (second, bigger) gun in a holster clipped beneath the steering column.

Check local laws. SLED, the governing entity for CWP laws in SC, specifically stated in a CWP instructors meeting about three years ago that those holsters do not meet SC law.

 

[Craig_AR]

Check local laws.

Excellent advice. Exactly what constitutes open carry and concealed carry when in a vehicle changes dramatically from one state to another. Here in Virginia, a significant change in law just last year finally allows a gun to be in a glove box and not require a Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP). Previously, the gun had to be in open view on dashboard or seat next to teh driver to be considered (legal) open carry.

 

[bearcreek]

Looking for comments on this particular in-car solution.

That particular solution is essentially leaving you without the use of the gun while you're in the vehicle and badly delaying your use of the weapon if a need arises outside of the vehicle. If you do end up actually needing it while seated it's likely to be needed fast which means fishing in the pocket behind the seat is a probable fail. If you do have time to get out of your seat before using your weapon you're in trouble again because you won't have the gun with you unless you've got the time to stay in the vehicle and fish it out. If you've got time to do that it would likely have been just as fast to get out first and then draw from your pocket. IMO, you should switch carry methods if at all possible.

 

[eazyrider]

I pocket carry as well. What I do is keep another spare gun in the glove box. There is this little cubby hole in there that fits my Bersa Thunder very well. I have small children so the backseat is not an option and the glove box is lockable, as is the gun should I need to leave it in the car unattended.

There is no perfect method, it is give and take. My problem with your method would be the need to remove my weapon and transfer it every time I drove. I simply would not like to that. Mainly for inconvenience, but also safety. Of course that is just my take on it.

 

[beatcop]

Wear a holster. That will provide the greatest retention and fastest draw. Two things that are at the top of the list.

 

[bearcreek]

I pocket carry as well. What I do is keep another spare gun in the glove box. There is this little cubby hole in there that fits my Bersa Thunder very well. I have small children so the backseat is not an option and the glove box is lockable, as is the gun should I need to leave it in the car unattended.

I have small children as well. I think I would find it rather challenging to keep up with a system where I had one gun I was carrying and another gun in the glove box. Seems like it'd be too easy to forget to unlock the glove box when getting into the vehicle or forgetting to lock it when getting out, especially when dealing with the extra distraction of a kid crying to "go potty now"! Those of you with toddlers know what I mean. I especially wouldn't want the risk, however slight, of having my two year old get into the glove box while I was loading something in the trunk or distracted in some other way.

 

[Kleanbore]

What I do is keep another spare gun in the glove box

One of the risks that concerns me is that of an unwanted passenger jumping in when the passenger door is open. Having to use the right arm could pose a problem. A pocket weapon in a left-hand pocket of a vest or jacket could mitigate that risk.

 

[Armored farmer]

This is one of the reasons why I prefer my techniclip. It quickly goes from iwb to vest pocket carry.

 

[Craig_AR]

I appreciate the comments here. Thank you, all. To extend the discussion in the logical direction, of, 'OK, how should we deal with being in a vehicle?' I recommend extending the thread at
https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...our-in-car-pistol-for-quick-retrieval.811316/

 

[tactikel]

Some state regs forbid a non CWP from having access to a weapon in a vehicle. A gun in the glove box would be considered accessible to a front seat passenger. They could be charged.
I settled on a concealed carry vest, my pistol is easily accessible. If alone, it is in the console. If going into a prohibited area I have a cable secured lock box in the back seat.

 

[azrocks]

I've said it before and I'll say it again... I don't think defending yourself from your vehicle with a handgun is a realistic scenario in all but the most exceptional of circumstances. If it's a carjacking and you've got time to see it coming, you've got time to either get out of dodge or use your vehicle as a (much better) weapon. If you didn't see it coming, trying to draw on someone who has the advantage is only going to get you shot. Outside a carjacking, I can't think of any other likely scenario where fighting from your vehicle would even be an option (excepting war zones, or perhaps Chicago).

Better to have it on you in my opinion. At least then you have the option to fight during the change of control (assuming you want to get in a gunfight over a car... if you didn't have your kid or a loved one in there I'd say just let them take it). Plus you won't have to worry about constantly dicking with your gun throughout the day, which will greatly minimize the chances of an ND.

 

[psyopspec]

At the risk of splitting to fine a hair, it also sounds like the setup might require you taking your eyes off a threat while your hand goes fishing for the gun, although it's hard to say without pics and I'd assume any of us would practice with whatever setup we intend to use.

Still, I feel like appendix carry remains the right solution for me for reasons that include access to the guns while seated/belted. It's one of many right possible answers and it sounds like you've found the best one for your situation.

 

[Averageman]

My Truck has a nice little pocket that is above my right knee as I sit in the Drivers seat. I bought a holster and covered the outside of it with Velcro, then did the same thing with Velcro inside that pocket.
I transfer the gun from holster to holster as I get in and out. With some practice it is a very smooth transition. I've had a number of people sitting in the passenger seat not notice it as they get in the truck. The holster is about four inches from the ignition switch.
Some would prefer to keep the gun in an on body holster, I feel if confronted in the Truck, my options are much better this way.
YMMV.

 

[Browning]

I've said it before and I'll say it again... I don't think defending yourself from your vehicle with a handgun is a realistic scenario in all but the most exceptional of circumstances. If it's a carjacking and you've got time to see it coming, you've got time to either get out of dodge or use your vehicle as a (much better) weapon.

What about if you're blocked in by traffic?

NSFW language.

Outside a carjacking, I can't think of any other likely scenario where fighting from your vehicle would even be an option (excepting war zones, or perhaps Chicago).

What about robberies as well as kidnapping for a variety of motives (for the purpose of sexual assault, kidnapping for ransom or child abduction for the same motives)?

 

[Kleanbore]

My Truck has a nice little pocket that is above my right knee as I sit in the Drivers seat. I bought a holster and covered the outside of it with Velcro, then did the same thing with Velcro inside that pocket.
I transfer the gun from holster to holster as I get in and out. With some practice it is a very smooth transition. I've had a number of people sitting in the passenger seat not notice it as they get in the truck. The holster is about four inches from the ignition switch.
Some would prefer to keep the gun in an on body holster, I feel if confronted in the Truck, my options are much better this way.
YMMV.

Might you not be in better stead not having to grasp the weapon with your right hand if confronted by someone who gas gained entrance to the truck?

 

[redbone]

For better or worse, I simply take my pocket carry, in a Mika holster, out of my pocket when I mount up and insert it between the drivers seat and the separate center seat (which forms a continuous front seat). Very tight fit, I leave the butt sticking up enough to grasp. Easy to cover with a hat or something if desired. As with OP, I like not having to unholster, and I can get it in and out of my pocket very discreetly. No little kids here, just dogs. If my kids were riding with me, I'd just rely on them for vehicle security! But alas, they are busy with their own families.

 

[azrocks]

What about if you're blocked in by traffic?

In most cases, such a situation could be better rectified by driving in a manner that leaves you options in case any emergency should occur... not just a carjacking or similar attack. Most people ride people's bumpers, leaving themselves nowhere to go. If you drive with the goal of always leaving yourself a way out, most of the time you'll be able to achieve that goal.

What about robberies as well as kidnapping for a variety of motives (for the purpose of sexual assault, kidnapping for ransom or child abduction for the same motives)?

See above. If you're in a position where you're set up to be a victim of a robbery or kidnapping in traffic, chances are quite good you failed somewhere up the line.... like not driving in a manner that leaves you outs. Of course, it's always possible that despite your best efforts you find yourself in a spot you can't immediately exit or maneuver in. I guess that's the part where you just give your stuff up (if it's a robbery), or be thankful you still have that handgun hidden on your person (in the case of a kidnapping). But it's not the part where you try to fight from a position of severe disadvantage - from both a situational and functional standpoint - because that's the part where you get shot in the face.

What are the best ways to avoid the highly-unlikely attacks you're using as examples? A) Don't associate with criminals (because that kind of stuff is rarely a random act of violence), B) Don't ride people's bumpers, C) Avoid third-world countries. Why should we be focused on avoiding them? Because if you don't, the very nature of carjacking puts you - despite your best efforts - in a position of disadvantage from which fighting is a risky proposition.

I'm sure I could spend a few minutes searching YouTube and come up with at least a couple examples where retaining a concealed weapon (like it still being in your pocket) during a carjacking or similar incident was the BEST thing to do. Perhaps you're carjacked with your kid in the car. Would you rather make you both a target by trying to fight from disadvantage from the driver's seat, or pull the gun out of your pocket and shoot Joe Criminal in the head as you transfer control?

Bottom line is this: Generally speaking, if you find yourself in a situation where you're forced to fight from the seat of your car, you've already failed. And if you are having to fight from the seat of your car, you'd probably have a better chance of winning the fight if you were anywhere but the front seat. That is unless you're driving the car and using it as a weapon, which IMO is one of the best things you could do, second only to using your vehicle to exit, stage right.

The best gunfight remains: the one you don't get in.

 

[psyopspec]

In most cases, such a situation could be better rectified by driving in a manner that leaves you options in case any emergency should occur... not just a carjacking or similar attack. Most people ride people's bumpers, leaving themselves nowhere to go. If you drive with the goal of always leaving yourself a way out, most of the time you'll be able to achieve that goal.



See above. If you're in a position where you're set up to be a victim of a robbery or kidnapping in traffic, chances are quite good you failed somewhere up the line.... like not driving in a manner that leaves you outs. Of course, it's always possible that despite your best efforts you find yourself in a spot you can't immediately exit or maneuver in. I guess that's the part where you just give your stuff up (if it's a robbery), or be thankful you still have that handgun hidden on your person (in the case of a kidnapping). But it's not the part where you try to fight from a position of severe disadvantage - from both a situational and functional standpoint - because that's the part where you get shot in the face.

What are the best ways to avoid the highly-unlikely attacks you're using as examples? A) Don't associate with criminals (because that kind of stuff is rarely a random act of violence), B) Don't ride people's bumpers, C) Avoid third-world countries. Why should we be focused on avoiding them? Because if you don't, the very nature of carjacking puts you - despite your best efforts - in a position of disadvantage from which fighting is a risky proposition.

I'm sure I could spend a few minutes searching YouTube and come up with at least a couple examples where retaining a concealed weapon (like it still being in your pocket) during a carjacking or similar incident was the BEST thing to do. Perhaps you're carjacked with your kid in the car. Would you rather make you both a target by trying to fight from disadvantage from the driver's seat, or pull the gun out of your pocket and shoot Joe Criminal in the head as you transfer control?

Bottom line is this: Generally speaking, if you find yourself in a situation where you're forced to fight from the seat of your car, you've already failed. And if you are having to fight from the seat of your car, you'd probably have a better chance of winning the fight if you were anywhere but the front seat. That is unless you're driving the car and using it as a weapon, which IMO is one of the best things you could do, second only to using your vehicle to exit, stage right.

The best gunfight remains: the one you don't get in.

I drive in the manner you describe, but I have no control over whether there is a car in front of me at a light, or whether traffic, retaining walls on the median, etc, block maneuvering to the left and right. That's a fact of life driving in urban environments, short of being able to run a convoy or motorcade with traffic control. That was the case when day when a man exited the vehicle in front of me with a tire iron and an attitude; retaining wall left, his car in front of me, and traffic to the right. I suppose Sierra Vista could be described as a third-world country to some, but I considered a fairly common small city environment.

You mention giving stuff up if it's a robbery vs fighting back if it's a kidnapping. What advice do you have on differentiating between a simple robbery, and one where the perpetrator intends to not leave any witnesses? Or even from a robbery vs a kidnapping vs a deadly attack? In my case, the guy stalking toward the car didn't verbally clarify his intentions, nor was I about to ask. My general sense is that relying on rational behavior patterns from an irrational actor is imprudent, but if I could give up my wallet and know with certainty that I wouldn't be harmed, I'm all for it. Look forward to reading your thoughts.

 

[Averageman]

Might you not be in better stead not having to grasp the weapon with your right hand if confronted by someone who gas gained entrance to the truck?

No, I don't believe so, but I understand your point.
Being that it is a automatic transmission, I don't believe shifting would be an issue with a G-26 in my hand. I will give it a try tonight though.
My greatest concern in these cases is getting in and getting out of the vehicle. Once the doors lock and the motor is running I will drive.

 

[Browning]

I guess you didn't get the part about being blocked in and then decided that a post full of wishful thinking and hoping those are the cards you're dealt in an attack are the way to go.

Leaving room to get around is a good strategy and obviously if you can avoid a fight and drive away that works quite a bit better. Drive on the sidewalk, through yards, scrape by cars or whatever, but try to get away. However the fact remains many times your path is blocked by other vehicles, (light, electric and telephone) poles, concrete barriers, bridge embankments and other barriers that will immediately impede your travel. Many times you be able to see clearly and see if someone gets out of their car to attack, but you won't be able to leave the immediate area due to the aforementioned obstacles.

I guess you can believe that you always do *this* or always do *that* and that the deck will always be in your favor, but that's not the way life works. There are things that you can do to make the most out of a crappy situation, but to pretend that the obstacles themselves are never going to be there is a fairly blind way of thinking.