Pocket Carry - The 21 foot "test" everyone should take
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MCgunner
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At 60 years of age, for me, that'd be a can of pepper spray. I'm a pretty good sized guy and I probably still have a pretty good right cross, but I ain't no ninja anymore.
+1 I can carry that little can of pepper spray in my hand and no one can see it, too.
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jimbo555
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"I always carry a banana peel" Now thats funny!
Shoot them in the head. Problem solved."just kidding" My good friend had to shoot a 400+ lb woman while resonding to a domestic dispute in Harlem about 25 yrs ago. She ran at him with a foot long butcher knife. It tooK a full cylinder to put her down. Her forwad motion was like a freight train, and he surelly would have been dead if she had reached him. Now that was a lot less than 21 feet, maybe 12-15, and he moved laterally as she tansversed the kitcken, "which slowed her down, but he almost died that day, just checking on screaming that a neighboor caled in, "she had burned her kids hand on the stove, as punishment". So that is one time when accurate constant firing stopped a cop from getting killed. The knife thing is quite true.He was cleared of any wrong doing but spent 6 -9 months on a desk anyway, mainly because it was a black woman shot by a white cop.I don't remember if he went to his backup gun, I believe the revolvers were still in use then.
I know his parntner didn't fire, because it was such a small area and there were kids there also. If you remember the incident the guy went on to make detective first grade down the road, and he was the youngest ever at the time, his last name was De'Stefano, and a dear friend of mine, who had nightmares over this for years.He later worked th 72 and 77 in Brooklyn later on, in Robbery/Homicide.
I know his parntner didn't fire, because it was such a small area and there were kids there also. If you remember the incident the guy went on to make detective first grade down the road, and he was the youngest ever at the time, his last name was De'Stefano, and a dear friend of mine, who had nightmares over this for years.He later worked th 72 and 77 in Brooklyn later on, in Robbery/Homicide.
357autoloader
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4D equals REAL LIFE and NPE equals non permissive (handgun carry) environment.
Hope that clears that up for you.
Hope that clears that up for you.
Cocked & Locked
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posts #52 and #53
The worst thing you can do with someone running at you at that range is stand still. You have to move. There will be some hesitation in your drawing anyway making the distance less than 21 feet when you actually start your draw.
Rob G had it right. When someone runs at you, if you have any mobility at all, you move as quickly as you can at a right angle (90 degrees) from the direction of your attacker while you are drawing. As he adjusts you stay moving at a right angle. I've done this drill many times from both a shooter and an attacker standpoint and it's extremely effective, giving you MUCH more time to draw your weapon. As an attacker, it's very frustrating trying to close the gap before you have a gun pointed at you. The faster you are running the more difficult it is to change direction.
Rob G had it right. When someone runs at you, if you have any mobility at all, you move as quickly as you can at a right angle (90 degrees) from the direction of your attacker while you are drawing. As he adjusts you stay moving at a right angle. I've done this drill many times from both a shooter and an attacker standpoint and it's extremely effective, giving you MUCH more time to draw your weapon. As an attacker, it's very frustrating trying to close the gap before you have a gun pointed at you. The faster you are running the more difficult it is to change direction.
coolluke01
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^ I would think that I would move to my strong side. This makes distance between my weapon side and the aggressor. I want him to be on my non weapon side because I'll be in the process of drawing my weapon and will not be able to defend myself with that hand. My weak side hand will be available for the task of defense.
I just reread your post. Did you mean attackers weapon? If so then I could see merit in moving away from the attackers weapon side.
I just reread your post. Did you mean attackers weapon? If so then I could see merit in moving away from the attackers weapon side.
357autoloader
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My point is...
If you are situationally aware 1 second is enough time.
I had a man charge me with ill intent from about 10 yards away.
I didn't have a gun, I was an out of stater in California.
I pulled my knife and showed it to him, he stopped in his tracks and then said to me " I'm calling the cops!"
Whatever. Cops came. I declined to press charges, 45 minutes out of my life wasted. The story is longer. The point remains the same. Be ready to defend yourself at all times.
If you are situationally aware 1 second is enough time.
I had a man charge me with ill intent from about 10 yards away.
I didn't have a gun, I was an out of stater in California.
I pulled my knife and showed it to him, he stopped in his tracks and then said to me " I'm calling the cops!"
Whatever. Cops came. I declined to press charges, 45 minutes out of my life wasted. The story is longer. The point remains the same. Be ready to defend yourself at all times.
The 21' Rule is well covered territory. Suffice to say if you wait to make the second move and remain stationary you're unlikely to draw and fire any CCW on target before 0'.
Steel Talon
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Action vs. Re-action.. If I choose to hit you it takes 2 steps for me to accomplish. *The thought and then *the strike. You need 3 steps *see the strike coming,*process the information ,and finally *re-act. The attacker will always have the edge of advantage.
The same goes for the 21ft rule. Its the 2nd step of the defensive re-action, that is critical to outcome. The key is the ability to step off line, draw, shoot and hit. In other words move and shoot. And as many have stated being able to smoothly draw from your choice of carry.
Myself I would move circular to his line, I would scream like a girl, and run like an Olympic track star,until I could take cover and get some obstacles between us.
The same goes for the 21ft rule. Its the 2nd step of the defensive re-action, that is critical to outcome. The key is the ability to step off line, draw, shoot and hit. In other words move and shoot. And as many have stated being able to smoothly draw from your choice of carry.
Myself I would move circular to his line, I would scream like a girl, and run like an Olympic track star,until I could take cover and get some obstacles between us.
I'm 70 and I'm not about to go toe to toe with anyone. Probably sometime in the next 90-120 days I will schedule a pacemaker (no kidding!). I carry an LCP, LCR or a 642w/CT right front pocket in a DeSantis Nemisis holsters. Sometimes a PT709 Slim. All this contingent on where and when I'm going. An IWB is not comfortable for me so it's an OWB for the Glock 26. I do have 3 .45ACPs which I don't carry since over the years they've gotten too heavy. I usually have my hand in the pocket over the butt. My preferences in order would be the 26, the 642, the LCR, and last choice the LCP. The LCP gets the most carry and the 26 the least. Best.
FIVETWOSEVEN
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Only time I will really pocket carry is for a backup gun in my left front pocket. Other then that it's on my hip or IWB for righthanded use.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0lgRMab9KU
The target may have been slower then a run but it was at 21 feet.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0lgRMab9KU
The target may have been slower then a run but it was at 21 feet.
PoserHoser
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Take class like krav maga. this is a very effective move to create space.
As far as being on one foot yes but its like you stepping over a hurdle and driving your entire weight forward. Don't believe me try it with a buddy.
jerico34
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Don't know which pocket holsters you may have tried but I have had good luck - and fairly quick, clean draws with my 642 - using a cheap Uncle Mike's for pants pockets and a Mika for the lower pockets of cargo pants or shorts. The gun stays in the Mika holster very well in the pocket but comes out of the holster super easily when drawing.
easyg
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A 400+ lb woman was actually able to RUN?!?
I'm sorry, but that's really just unbelievable.
Kayaker 1960
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Kick to the chest
I studied Karate for many years, earned my black belt and taught for a while. Even for someone with extensive training a kick to the chest to someone charging you can be difficult, plus as someone mentioned you will be on one foot with all of their weight hitting you. A lower kick however is easier and will leave you less at risk. Kick to the stomach or groin. if you can step aside you can hit him with a roundhouse kick as he passes, adding his momentum to the power of your leg. I'm 52 years old and in pretty good shape, I stretch several times a week. If I got into a fight it would be unlikely that I'd try to kick someone in the head or chest unless I truly felt that i was in command of the situation. Higher kicks put you at greater risk of ending up on your butt. Moving to their week side is a good option. Proper training, and lots of it is your best bet. A weekend self defense seminar is a waste of time and money.
I studied Karate for many years, earned my black belt and taught for a while. Even for someone with extensive training a kick to the chest to someone charging you can be difficult, plus as someone mentioned you will be on one foot with all of their weight hitting you. A lower kick however is easier and will leave you less at risk. Kick to the stomach or groin. if you can step aside you can hit him with a roundhouse kick as he passes, adding his momentum to the power of your leg. I'm 52 years old and in pretty good shape, I stretch several times a week. If I got into a fight it would be unlikely that I'd try to kick someone in the head or chest unless I truly felt that i was in command of the situation. Higher kicks put you at greater risk of ending up on your butt. Moving to their week side is a good option. Proper training, and lots of it is your best bet. A weekend self defense seminar is a waste of time and money.
Heavy people can run with enough adrenalinn in them. Then the physics of it takes over. A 400 pound, slow moving, fat flying person can seriously injure you.
Not to mention, if there were witnesses.....you would never hear the end of it.
Cocked & Locked
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think of .45-70 here
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