Pointed Bullets in 30-30 Winchester

[DMW1116]

Does anyone else do this and turn their 6+1 into a 1+1 round rifle or use a single shot or bolt action, or even a Savage 99? Until I get a manual action 308, my 336 is my most flexible rifle for reloading. I’m basically just tinkering and having a good time trying all the reloading stuff out.

My Lyman manual has some TC Pistol loads with pointed bullets I could try. Anyone use a 155, 168, or 175 grain SMK or Amax bullet just to see what happens?

 

[GooseGestapo]

Personally I don’t see the point anymore.
I’ve owned two b/a.30/30’s. Both were accurate. (REM 788, Savage M340).
I still own 3 l/a .30/30’s

I also have played with the more pointed .30cal bullets.

Observations:
1. Accuracy inside 200yds is not significantly improved.
2. Trajectory isn’t improved enough to make any real difference in point blank range.
3. Most of the pointed bullets are constructed such that they rapidly drop below the expansion velocity threshold as to be counterproductive as contrasted to a properly constructed appropriate bullet.

The best way to maximize the performance of the .30/30 is the Hornady FTX bullets and LVR powder. The 160gr maximizes the muzzle velocity, retained energy and ballistic coefficient with a profile and OAL that allows the action of most repeating .30/30’s to properly function.

The Speer 130,150, and 170’s flat nose bullets were engineered to optimize them to the .30/30. Before The latest ammo famine, they were among the least expensive bullets. Their B.C.’s approach those of some spitzer bullets.

A few exceptions I can recommend are the Nosler 125gr Ballistic Tip, The 125gr Speer TNT and Hornady 125gr SST. They are fast enough to shoot flat enough and hit going fast enough to expand sufficiently on light medium game.

But at the range and habitat where I use the .30/30, a cast bullet exhibits adequate to superior performance at a dramatically lower price allowing sufficient practice.
The last 6 deer I shot with a l/a were at 17, 22,25,27, 44 and 72 yds. The other two were shot in my backyard with a .308Marlin Express with a 160gr FTX. THE 17, 22, and 44 were headshots with a .218Bee. Others with a .338 MX shooting 220 cast bullets...
You don’t need a eargesplitten Uberloudenmag to shoot deer (though I got one of those, too!). .300 RUM.
And BTW it’s favorite bullets are the not so svelt 180g Remington PtSpt Corelokts... go figure!

Until Remington got sold and the Corlokt RoundNose was redesigned, my favorite.30/30 bullets were the 150 and 170gr Corlokt Round Nose. In bulk quantities the bullets were the least expensive but also most accurate. Before LVR came out, I used Reloader 15. 2,400fps with the 150’s, 2,300 with the 170’s from a 20” bbl.

btw, I use a +3” zero at 100yds. Zero at 170yds, -4” at 200. Covers 90% of my hunting.

 

[CoalCrackerAl]

I have loaded pointed bullets for my 30/30. Fist one in the tube pointed. Followed by blunt and one in the chamber pointed.

 

[Paul R Zartman]

Me too, one in the chamber, one in the tube...bunch more in my pocket

 

[PapaG]

I have played with the 30-30 and 32 WS since 1955. Love them both. Where I live, neither is legal for anything but varmint and predators(Republik of IL). That said, in both the 170 grain bullets (flat) have almost always shot better groups than the 150s. Both are way too destructive on fur bearers. I have tried everything from the 100 grain half jacket plinkers to the 165 Leverevolutions(outstanding). I've shot cast bullets, plain and GC, from 120 to 200 grains. My own preferences, .311 dis in my Marlins for cast, .309 in the Winchesters, .308 in my Contenders, pistol and carbine. If I had to make a once in a lifetime shot on a twelve point at 250? My Contender carbine and the 165 Hornady. Under 150, any of my guns. Wish it was legal here. Glad I have my own land (not that I'd skirt the law). My favorite centerfire rifle cartridge. (Followed by 222, 308, 30-06, and 223. I have used many pointed bullets, one in the chamber, one in the tube. Favorite is Sierra 130 grain pistol bullet in either the Contender or Marlin. 2", either. Only one Coyote and two chucks, but neither moved.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

If you load spire pointed bullets in cartridges for a .30-30 lever gun, keep the overall length short enough that you can eject an unfired cartridge without having to remove the lever, locking block, and bolt.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Oh, I have used my .30-30 one in the chamber and one in the magazine. Double rifle without barrel regulation problems. Both rounds close POI.
Often shoot it single single shot in matches.

 

[Hugger-4641]

I have loaded some 165gr spire pts and filled the tube. The cartridges do not stay straight in the tube, so the points are not actually centered on the primer of the round in front. Of course I am also careful not to drop or bang my stock against things. At any rate, they didn't really perform any better than the 170gr extreme points that I usually shoot.
I also loaded some 110gr jhp that I did not put more than one in the tube because these tips were harder than the sp and the edge of the jhp did rest against the primer of the next round. Great Coyote round but finicky about velocity. 34gr of IMR 3031 was the magic number for these.

 

[Riomouse911]

As was posted above, the 160 grain FTX and 35 grains of Leverevolution powder and I’m golden. So loaded, I have a magazine full of pointed, boat tail bullets designed with a cannelure for the proper OAL and for the velocity range the .30-30 dwells in.



Stay safe.

 

[DMW1116]

After looking over the TC loads in my manual, it indeed seems the FTX is the one to use. I already have a box loaded up, and half a box waiting.

 

[Akula69]

You don’t need a eargesplitten Uberloudenmag

I giggled. Not sorry.

 

[Bayou52]

I also load the 30/30 with the 160 grain FTX pushed by 35.5 grains of LVR. This load achieves about the best performance this caliber rifle can deliver. And it is devastating on deer.

I chronied the velocity once - 2490 FPS.

Bayou52

 

[Fyrstyk]

I load the Hornady 130 grain SSP (a spire point bullet) in my T/C contender with 10" barrel. I get 1960 FPS out of the barrel and 1.5" groups at 75 yards. Shot 4 deer with this load and every one of them DRT. Bullet expansion was great based on the exit holes. I have yet to recover a bullet, but all of my shots were standing broadside shots behind the shoulder.

 

[GooseGestapo]

Akula69; You noticed though, didn’t you!

OP;
MidwayUSA in their descriptions of bullets often give the minimum impact velocity for reliable bullet expansion. For some bullets in .30 cal intended for higher velocity cartridges, the impact expansion threshold is higher than the muzzle velocity of the .30/30. An example is the 180 and 200gr BtSpt Sierra and Hornady bullets. Except for some of the VLD-Hunting bullets all the BTHP’s are intended for target/competition and don’t reliably expand even from a .308 or .30/06.

Even the .308win is limited to 180 or 190gr due to lower m/v of heavier bullets for big game hunting.

Another consideration is that just because it will chamber, it won’t necessarily eject if you try to eject an unfired cartridge. A Marlin action is limited to 2.550-2.585”. Savage M340 to ~2.600”

Most jacketed pointed soft point hunting bullets have a 1,800-1,900fps expansion threshold.
Just hitting an animal isn’t enough to ensure a kill!
There are YouTube videos of people using a .30/30 and cast bullets to hit reliably 900-1,100yd gongs. Doesn’t mean you should be plinking deer at that range...

 

[Charlie98]

Observations:
1. Accuracy inside 200yds is not significantly improved.
2. Trajectory isn’t improved enough to make any real difference in point blank range.

View attachment 1005896 If you load spire pointed bullets in cartridges for a .30-30 lever gun, keep the overall length short enough that you can eject an unfired cartridge without having to remove the lever, locking block, and bolt.

I have a Savage 99 in .30-30, but have never fooled with pointy bullets in it... I shoot cast. All I hunt with it is steel pipe, anyway. Having said that, as Goose mentions, I don't think it would improve ballistics enough to matter, and there is the issue of bullet performance at reduced .30-30 velocities (vs, say, the same bullet in .308, etc.)

It is interesting, however... one of the advantages of the Savage 99 is the rotary magazine. I'll have to have a look at it and see how well a pointy bullet would work... the Savage is very sensitive to OAL.

 

[Varminterror]

2+1, not 1+1. Load one into the chamber (through the tube or port drop), then load two into the magazine. Safe.

The major “impact” on primers when using spire point bullets in a tube mag is not during recoil, but during magazine advance as the action is cycled. When the action is cycled, suddenly the cartridge column is spring motivated to advance a couple of inches, with a sudden stop against the cartridge stop - and the cartridges slam together like rail cars in a stopping train. With multiple cartridges in the tube, that’s the most likely scenario when a bullet tip can ignite a primer. However, when loading 2+1, there is never an instance where this can happen. The magazine will never have more than one cartridge advancing in the tube.

A 3 shot rifle is limited, but for many types of hunting, it can be sufficiently managed.

But there’s little reason to bother much with spire point bullets in the Dirty Thirty. It can be done, but most spire points are not built to expand at the lower impact velocity of the 30-30, not designed with a sufficiently short ogive to allow cycling in the relatively short lever action. So it takes some consideration to walk this road, with the tangible benefit being exceptionally limited. Ballistic coefficient doesn’t matter much at 400yrds and under.

 

[Paul R Zartman]

You don’t need a eargesplitten Uberloudenmag to shoot deer (though I got one of those, too!)

pictures please...start a new thread if needed

 

[WestKentucky]

I do the 1+6 deal for my 336. First round is a ballistic tip, the rest are 150gr that hit close to the same POI. I recently got a stainless 30-30 contender though so I look forward to really wringing the old dirty thirty out for what it can really do.

 

[DMW1116]

Looks like I’ll just stick with the FTX. The pointed bullets are lighter and lose BC as well. With this gun and it’s sights, there isn’t much point in it. If I had a bolt action or TC pistol I might consider it. I really want to try the 125 grain Flat Nose Hollow Points but they are nowhere to be found. FWIW I dialed in the rifle with my plinking load today, some 110 grain FMJ 30 Carbine bullets. It has new sights. I’d love to have some more of those too.

 

[bullseye308]

I used to load some for a 14” super 14 Contender and occasionally shot some out of my Marlin 30AS. I loaded 125 TNT and 125 Ballistic Tips with great results using AA2460 back then. Lots of fun and very accurate while extending the range a little. 150 or bigger you had to pop the extractor on the rifle to get the round out of the chamber.

 

[Airborne Falcon]

Does anyone else do this and turn their 6+1 into a 1+1 round rifle or use a single shot or bolt action, or even a Savage 99? Until I get a manual action 308, my 336 is my most flexible rifle for reloading. I’m basically just tinkering and having a good time trying all the reloading stuff out.

My Lyman manual has some TC Pistol loads with pointed bullets I could try. Anyone use a 155, 168, or 175 grain SMK or Amax bullet just to see what happens?

As others have already posted ... hard to beat the Hornady FTX Leverevolution bullet and powder combo. I use it in just about all of my rifle caliber leverguns and it works. 30-30, 35 Rem, 338 MX ... not my Browning BLR in 308 but that's another story.

Federal came out with something new ... I cannot remember the name, .... wait, Hammerdown maybe? Something like that. It's supposed to compete with the FTX Leverevolution stuff.

 

[Hugger-4641]

Nosler has a new ballistic tip out also that's supposed to compete with the FTX. I think it's a 150gr ballistic silver tip. If I had a rifle that didn’t like the FTX, I'd try those. I probably will try them anyway when I run across some.

 

[Riomouse911]

Nosler has a new ballistic tip out also that's supposed to compete with the FTX. I think it's a 150gr ballistic silver tip. If I had a rifle that didn’t like the FTX, I'd try those. I probably will try them anyway when I run across some.

They don’t have the pointed nose of the FTX, in all honesty they’re polymer-cap round nose bullets with small boat tails. They have a bit better BC numbers than the usual .30-30 bullets, but they’re not as aerodynamic as the name implies.



Still, I bet they work just fine for the usual .30-30 game animals and distances.

Stay safe.

 

[jmr40]

Not worth the effort. Using pointed bullets in a 30-30 doesn't make enough difference to matter, at least not with trajectory. First consider real world muzzle velocity, not what is printed on the box or ballistics charts. From typical 20" lever action rifle barrels the speeds are going to be significantly slower.

Hornady uses deceptive advertising with their pointed leverRevolution ammo. If you look at their data they show the pointed bullets zeroed at 200 yards, which can cause the bullets to impact high enough at 50-100 yards to miss high. But the trajectory looks impressive at 300 yards. At least compared to traditional RN bullets.

If you were to load traditional RN bullets to the same "claimed" speeds and zero them at 200 yards the trajectory at 300 would be very close to the same.

Where the pointed bullets do have an advantage, at least on paper, is greater impact speeds down range. That could make a difference in whether or not a bullet expands or not when pushed to extreme range. The flip side of that is that the RN bullets loaded in 30-30 are designed to expand at much slower speeds than most pointed bullets.

In other words if you choose to load 150 gr pointed bullets in a 30-30 they will impact at greater speed, but they need 1800-2000 fps at impact to expand at all. The 150 gr RN bullets will impact a little slower downrange, but those bullets are designed to expand at speeds around 1600 fps.

At the end of the day a 30-30 is at its best inside of 200 yards. Using a pointed bullet doesn't change that.

 

[hdbiker]

PSP bullets don't always expand well at 30-30 velocities, hdbiker