iliketoshootguns
member
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2006
- Messages
- 49
the 5.7 penetrating ceramic vest plates.., I find that hard to believe
police confiscate 'cop killer' gun in Far rockaway
- Thread starter gunsmith
- Start date
- Status
beerslurpy
member
The 5.7 round didnt even exist till about 2-3 years ago. And there havent been 600 on-duty police deaths in NY in the past 10 years. I lived there 18 years and I can tell you that a cop being killed on duty would make the news for a month and there would be parades and fanfare and a giant funeral. It is a very rare occurence.
edit: from reading that list, it seems like the number one killer of cops in NYC is muslim terrorists flying airplanes. Not even people with guns.
edit: from reading that list, it seems like the number one killer of cops in NYC is muslim terrorists flying airplanes. Not even people with guns.
Cesiumsponge
Member
The 5.7mm round has been around for over a decade, but it was strictly used by small military units for the FN P90 personal defense weapon. It wasn't until several years ago when the 5.7 pistol was created to compliment the P90 and the civilian IOM and 5.7mm civilian ammunition and was available for us to purchase.
I think I've only seen two of these pistols to date at all my visits to local gun stores and only those stores that had these sold the ammo. I would be mildly surprised if -anyone- will ever be maimed or killed by this particular firearm in a civilian situation...self-defense, criminal, or police-related, period. It's simply not very wide spread.
I think I've only seen two of these pistols to date at all my visits to local gun stores and only those stores that had these sold the ammo. I would be mildly surprised if -anyone- will ever be maimed or killed by this particular firearm in a civilian situation...self-defense, criminal, or police-related, period. It's simply not very wide spread.
Cacique500
Member
I wonder how many FPS the gun has to be going to penetrate 48 layers of kevlar.
DontBurnMyFlag
Member
As a Law Enforcement Officer, is it outlandish to say I'd rather be shot by an FN 5.7 than a hunting rifle? Or even more outlandish to say Id rather be shot by an FN 5.7 than see them banned?
beerslurpy: The DA does not say the 616 number pertains to NYC. I think if a city had about sixty officers dying of gunfire a year, I bet they'd be having a hell of a time finding recruits.
The 616 number seemed more plausable as a national number. I checked out The Officer Down Memorial Page, and if you take a period since 1994 and ending sometime in 2005, you would have 616 officers across the nation dying by gunfire.
But yeah, 425 officers dying from an FN 5.7 is impossible to swallow. I'd be surprised if there were one.
The 616 number seemed more plausable as a national number. I checked out The Officer Down Memorial Page, and if you take a period since 1994 and ending sometime in 2005, you would have 616 officers across the nation dying by gunfire.
But yeah, 425 officers dying from an FN 5.7 is impossible to swallow. I'd be surprised if there were one.
cracked butt
Member
I'd be suprised if there were much more than 400 5.7's in private hands in the country, they aren't exactly common, I've only seen 1 myself. Its pretty amazing how antis throw around bogus statistics. I guess if you are going to go out on a limb and tell a lie, might as well make it a whopper.
EasternShore
Member
I guess I should consider my self lucky to have fired my friends. It is a nice firearm, I just can't afford it.
Finch
Member
I don't think LOE's need to worry too much about the 5.7, considering the way criminals shoot, the ammo is too expensive for them. 
benewton
Member
7.62 x 25 would probably work better, and CZ-52's are cheap.
But don't tell anybody: it'd ruin the lie and disrupt the statistics!
But don't tell anybody: it'd ruin the lie and disrupt the statistics!
gunsmith
member
it's mind numbing
How very little the main stream media knows
about firearms.
A friend of mine sent me a photo about
supposed police mishandling of guns she saw on a
liberal website, the police did not have their finger on the trigger!
The media is soooo brainwashed by what they see
on TV that they think you're supposed to point your gun
in the air, inches away from your face, with your finger on the
trigger...great for close up's I guess but a good way
to lose your hearing, eyesight and also get shot by a bad guy...
Also it's New York media, they grew up in households without
any guns and taught that only police have the special
super magic power to use a gun.
The reporter probably never ever thought that the DA would lie
to him...I was going to say obsfucate, but it's a plain lie,
he never thought he would get caught at.
How very little the main stream media knows
about firearms.
A friend of mine sent me a photo about
supposed police mishandling of guns she saw on a
liberal website, the police did not have their finger on the trigger!
The media is soooo brainwashed by what they see
on TV that they think you're supposed to point your gun
in the air, inches away from your face, with your finger on the
trigger...great for close up's I guess but a good way
to lose your hearing, eyesight and also get shot by a bad guy...
Also it's New York media, they grew up in households without
any guns and taught that only police have the special
super magic power to use a gun.
The reporter probably never ever thought that the DA would lie
to him...I was going to say obsfucate, but it's a plain lie,
he never thought he would get caught at.
Big Gay Al
Member
So, has anyone emailed the stupid reporter and informed him of his mistake?
gunsmith
member
Some of our members have
We'll see if he replies.
I have a feeling that he was just printing what he heard from the DA
& never thought to check out if the Da was telling the truth.
We'll see if he replies.
I have a feeling that he was just printing what he heard from the DA
& never thought to check out if the Da was telling the truth.
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/killed/2004/table34.htm
According to table 34 of the FBI's 2004 "Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted" section of the Uniform Crime Report out of 36 law enforcement officers killed by handguns in 2004, none were killed by the FN 5.7 weapon. Furthermore table 39 shows that in 2004 a total of 4 law enforcement officers died as a result of ammunition penetrating their body armor. Of those 4 officers, all were killed by rifles. In fact, in the time range listed in the report (1995 to 2004), not even one officer was killed by a handgun round penetrating his body armor. All 22 fatal wounds in that period were from a rifle.
From 1995 to 2004 545 law enforcement officers have been killed with firearms according to table 34 of the FBI's 2004 "Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted" section of the Uniform Crime Report. Of those 114 were from rifles and 35 from shotguns. From handguns 116 were 9mm rounds, 43 were .45 caliber, 44 were .40 caliber, and 48 were .38 caliber. This account for 400 of the 545 deaths. None of the remaining deaths are attributed to the FN 5.7 round. I'd love to know where Richard Brown has found the number of officers slain by the FN 5.7 to be 425 as it seems his data is a fabrication or contradicts the FBI's.
Feel free to copy and paste as necessary for your letters.
According to table 34 of the FBI's 2004 "Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted" section of the Uniform Crime Report out of 36 law enforcement officers killed by handguns in 2004, none were killed by the FN 5.7 weapon. Furthermore table 39 shows that in 2004 a total of 4 law enforcement officers died as a result of ammunition penetrating their body armor. Of those 4 officers, all were killed by rifles. In fact, in the time range listed in the report (1995 to 2004), not even one officer was killed by a handgun round penetrating his body armor. All 22 fatal wounds in that period were from a rifle.
From 1995 to 2004 545 law enforcement officers have been killed with firearms according to table 34 of the FBI's 2004 "Law Enforcement Officers Killed and Assaulted" section of the Uniform Crime Report. Of those 114 were from rifles and 35 from shotguns. From handguns 116 were 9mm rounds, 43 were .45 caliber, 44 were .40 caliber, and 48 were .38 caliber. This account for 400 of the 545 deaths. None of the remaining deaths are attributed to the FN 5.7 round. I'd love to know where Richard Brown has found the number of officers slain by the FN 5.7 to be 425 as it seems his data is a fabrication or contradicts the FBI's.
Feel free to copy and paste as necessary for your letters.
Last edited:
Fosbery
Member
Well the logic is simple:
Police officers wear bullet proof vests and bullet proof vests will completely stop all bullets from all handguns no matter where the officer is shot. The FN 57 is the only handgun designed to penetrate bullet proof vests, so obviously all the 425 officers killed by handguns were killed by the 57.
Police officers wear bullet proof vests and bullet proof vests will completely stop all bullets from all handguns no matter where the officer is shot. The FN 57 is the only handgun designed to penetrate bullet proof vests, so obviously all the 425 officers killed by handguns were killed by the 57.
bogie
Member
When in doubt, write a letter....
=========
Campers, the fellow who wrote that thing on the 5.7mm pistol _really_ needs to be sent back to whatever institution he's interning from, so that he can take a course or three about fact checking... And common sense. One doesn't need to actually know much about firearms (or any subject, for that matter...) to think "Hey, this guy just told me that 2/3 of the cops killed have been killed with this kind of gun, but I've never heard of it before - I wonder why?"
Now, if you guys _really_ want a juicy article, go after the bone-headed DA... Lemme guess - he's elected, right? He's using your paper as a podium to show how "tough" he is on crime, and making stuff up in the process so that it'll look like he's fighting the tough fight... Sheesh...
I wonder what else he lies about? Does he fabricate evidence? Does he withhold disclosure of evidence from defendants' counsel?
Now, sit down and weigh the consequences... You can continue to get your parking tickets fixed by this fellow, or you can suck it up, and tear him a new orifice. He _used_ your reporter and your paper. Are you going to let him get away with it?
Chuck Bogardus
=========
Campers, the fellow who wrote that thing on the 5.7mm pistol _really_ needs to be sent back to whatever institution he's interning from, so that he can take a course or three about fact checking... And common sense. One doesn't need to actually know much about firearms (or any subject, for that matter...) to think "Hey, this guy just told me that 2/3 of the cops killed have been killed with this kind of gun, but I've never heard of it before - I wonder why?"
Now, if you guys _really_ want a juicy article, go after the bone-headed DA... Lemme guess - he's elected, right? He's using your paper as a podium to show how "tough" he is on crime, and making stuff up in the process so that it'll look like he's fighting the tough fight... Sheesh...
I wonder what else he lies about? Does he fabricate evidence? Does he withhold disclosure of evidence from defendants' counsel?
Now, sit down and weigh the consequences... You can continue to get your parking tickets fixed by this fellow, or you can suck it up, and tear him a new orifice. He _used_ your reporter and your paper. Are you going to let him get away with it?
Chuck Bogardus
Jake in TX
Member
I did some checking on this district attorney, and found that most of the Times Ledger article was lifted verbatim from a press release from the DA's article:
http://www.queensda.org/Press Releases/2006 Press Releases/07-July/07-20-2006.pdf
Does anybody think it might do any good contacting the DA's office directly?
Jake in TX
http://www.queensda.org/Press Releases/2006 Press Releases/07-July/07-20-2006.pdf
Does anybody think it might do any good contacting the DA's office directly?
Jake in TX
DWARREN123
Member
I seen a report where the .17 HMR could shoot thru a personnal protection vest. No firearm shoots anyone, it has to have ammo capable of it and someone to aim and shoot.
Don Gwinn
Moderator Emeritus
Yes, Jake, I think that would be fun if nothing else.
I think it will be fun to send all this to John Stossel, too.
I think it will be fun to send all this to John Stossel, too.
Low-Sci
Member
That "prenatal rays of death" made me laugh my butt off.
I am in awe of the sheer stupidity required to make a statement as asinine as the DA's with a straight face. That DA had to know it was a lie. Either that or by "same type of gun" he actually meant "semiautomatic." But I doubt it.
I am in awe of the sheer stupidity required to make a statement as asinine as the DA's with a straight face. That DA had to know it was a lie. Either that or by "same type of gun" he actually meant "semiautomatic." But I doubt it.
Langenator
Member
If that DA is that sloppy with his facts and/or research, you really have to wonder about his won/lost record.
How much of NYC's crime problem would be solved if they didn't have idiots like this running the prosecutor's offices?
How much of NYC's crime problem would be solved if they didn't have idiots like this running the prosecutor's offices?
No surprise here. One of the things that you find about modern journalism is that much of it is driven by press releases. It takes time and money to actually go get the news, so much of what you read in most papers is regurgitated press releases.
Reporters are no more experts in every field than anyone else. They often just do not have the time to fact check, or maybe just don't bother because it jives with either their personal bias or their employer's.
The sad part is very few newspapers will print corrections and the few that do often hide them where few will see them.
I once emailed a reporter for the local rag and pointed out that a story he did had put a decimal point in the wrong place. No return call, no correction ever published as best I could tell. The error was real basic arithmetic so one would think it would have been easy to verify, but no such luck.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
If you're gonna email the reporter, BE POLITE!
The DA is another matter...
Our job, here, is to try to educate people as to the facts, not to go blowing smoke about, "Me so smart, you so stupid!" Any fool can do that.
Remember, the deal here at THR is to show people we're grownup, mature adults. Sure, a lot of us have to fake that, but we can at least try.
, Art
The DA is another matter...
Our job, here, is to try to educate people as to the facts, not to go blowing smoke about, "Me so smart, you so stupid!" Any fool can do that.
Remember, the deal here at THR is to show people we're grownup, mature adults. Sure, a lot of us have to fake that, but we can at least try.
, Art- Status
