Police Duty Weapon: Kimber 1911 or Sig P220R?

LE use: Kimber 1911 or Sig-Sauer P220?

  • Going Classic: High-end Kimber .45 for me!

    Votes: 70 34.8%
  • Going Classy: The Sig-Sauer P220 takes my vote!

    Votes: 131 65.2%

  • Total voters
    201
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Go with the sig. Sigs are combat firearms and the DA/SA trigger is a better option with a round in chamber in my opinion.
1911s are great target pistols but for a duty weapon i want a sig. just my .02 cents.
 
I have both in 9mm but have had both in.45. I love Kimbers and SIGs but for your mission I'd carry the SIG in a DAK Gen2 model. Dennis
 
Sig all the way. I have 8,000 rounds (and counting) through my Sig and have had only two rounds (out of 8,000) cause isses. Otherwise, it has always gone bang. Not sure what the problem was and it was fixed by a tap, rack, shoot both times. Both of these happened during a tactical handgun IPSC type coompetiotion and may well have been user error.
 
My vote is for the Sig because I am not a Kimber fan. I had a very reliable Kimber but out of 4 friends that owned them all 4 had problems. I can't stand the transition from double action to single action that the Sigs and HK's have. If it were up to me I would vote neither.
 
I dearly love my Kimber 1911 and it has never acted up for me.
I completed the Farnam defensive handgun course with a worn old SIG 2340.

I do not own a SIG but between the two for everyday carry in an LEO capacity I'd choose the SIG. Being a lefty my EDC for cc is an XD
 
Kimber all the way. A few horror stories of a few people that have suffered jam after jam in no way discounts the years of reliable combat service that the 1911 design has given the world and continues to do so this very day. Like others have said, the 1911 is not for everyone though. For those who choose to pursue the course of carrying a 1911, obviously there is some training that is involved, but you would be rewarded with a naturally pointing firearm, whose ergonomics and trigger pull are truly second to none.

Carry what you will, and good luck with it no matter what.
 
I have heard too many stories on the web on Kimbers being jam-a-matics. I see some folks saying that Kimbers can be "made to work." What sensible person wants to buy a $1500.00 gun that has to be taken to a gunsmith right after purchase? Better even to buy a cheap GI model Springfield and some $30.00 magazines. I am sure a lot of Kimbers work fine out of the box, but I have heard more jamming stories about Kimbers than I have about Hi-Points for heavens sake. I can't understand the strange hold that Kimber has over the minds of American pistol shooters. I would go for the SIG.
 
I have 2 sig 220's and a custom kimber myself . But the kimber would make me sick when rolling around in dirt and other stuff if it was damaged. sigs are reliable and are easier to refinish. Sorry but true the finish comes off after about a year of patrol use. the sif has easier parts and holsters so . I vote sig. Good luck and get night sights and good grips g10 or hogue alum. 5 mags minimum.
 
I would vote Sig 220 over any 1911 for duty use, 'cause they fit my hand better, and I trust them more. Both are accurate guns.

My first choice, outside of the OP's two, would be the XD45 Tactical. 14rds of 230gr sweetness at your disposal. Mine has been 100% thru 4K, and I shoot it every bit as well or better than a 1911.

YMMV.
 
Alright, here is a hypothetical:

Let's say you've been hired by a large metropolitan Police Department with a high crime rate and you are encouraged to supply your own sidearm (true story). Long story short, they'll permit to you carry a high-end Kimber 1911 .45ACP or a Sig-Sauer P220R .45ACP.

Here is why I would choose the double action SIG P220 over a single action SIG P220 and the 1911: grip and thumb safeties!

The real problem isn't either gun's performance. Both are fine, provided the user is satisfied with reliability, ergonomics, grips, sights, trigger weight, etc. The real issue is the nature of the fighting that the police officers typically get involved in. Encounters tend to be very close with a high probability of physical contact (not including cuffing) between the officer and suspect. What I have learned is that the MARTIAL ART of SELF-DEFENSE is MORE important tha the gear. This sort of conflict REQUIRES proficiency in hand to hand, knife and gun. It is EXCEPTIONALLY easy for someone to interfere with the drawing of a firearm and/or close the short distance before the weapon's muzzle is on target.

This is the result of a FAILURE in TIMING on the part of the good guy:

accessWeapon1.jpg
Fighting for the gun mistakenly introduced at the wrong time

Notice how the bad guy (on top) is working to control the right arm of the good guy. A gun has been introduced into the fight and is now available to the bad guy if he can manage it. There are times to draw and times to use a fist; this good guy misjudged the tactical situation and now gets to fight for his weapon. Fortunately, retention issues can be solved with Level 3-5 retention holsters such as made by Safariland.

Any gun with a safety is a liability in this situation because of physical pressure. If the good guy cannot get a solid grip on his weapon (and that definitely happened to me in these non-cooperative exercises), the gun is temporarily disabled. This is a BIG problem because THE SHOT MUST GO OFF NOW and the good guy may not get another clean shot. Jams are very easy to induce, even with just pressure of an elbow against the slide. Grappling over a weapon is at best a bad situation; the good guy better know his physical ground game and be physically up to the challenge.

Some folks will claim that the 1911's safeties will prevent the bad guy from operating the weapon. Relying upon a "what if" like that is not prudent and is a denial of reality. We cannot presume to know the skill sets of the criminal in advance. One case in point: gang members getting into the military, getting deployed to Iraq, and then returning to the US to use their skills and experience. Prepare for the worst because your adversary may actually be a better fighter!

Force on force exercises such as the one above demonstrate the problems that can occur with shooters put under pressure. They fail to sweep their safeties or mess up achieving a solid grip (sometimes with help). The result is that they take fire. Fortunately, movement is a great defense, but it lasts only so long before the adversary requires a sight picture. These problems occur for folks with extensive experience with 1911's and similar guns. It's a mistake that can happen at any time and with a little bit of help (like a punch to the hand or gun arm), the probability of failure to disengage the safety goes up.

Our ancestors knew what they were doing when they invented the double action revolver. Go read Ed McGivern's Fast and Fancy Revolver Shooting for a detailed look at the controversy of the 1920's and 1930's surrounding this issue.
 
Wow this thread got resurrected twice!!!!

But of the two guns listed I would go with a Sig over a high end 1911. You're gonna cry when you jump a wall and scratch the crap out of that beautiful 1911.
 
I've carried both a Kimber and a Sig 220 as a uniform duty weapon. Both are single stack .45 pistols. Both good pistols, equally reliable. The Kimber was is a ton easier to shoot well than the 220. Ditched both for a Glock 21. Why? Magazine capacity and no concern for weather, and carry damage. Just made sense going from a load out of 25 rds to 40 rds. Guess my answer to the original question is neither one.
str1
 
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