Police Duty Weapon: Kimber 1911 or Sig P220R?

[chris in va]

I had a very strong recommendation from an LEO when I was considering a 220. He basically said it saved his life.

Mine is older, 1995 vintage. Plain Jane, no rail. Not one FT-anything after probably...500 rounds...which is all I can afford.

 

[TAB]

given the choices I would go with a 1911.

 

[outerlimit]

I would go with the 1911 even though I'm not a fan of Kimber. I would have to replace some MIM parts. I can certainly understand why some people would prefer the Sig, and I wouldn't have any problem carrying it either. I just prefer SA as opposed to DA/SA.

 

[Ala Dan]

Quite naturally, I voted for the SIG P220~!

I carried one for many year's as a LEO; and it earned the reputation as
"MY BACON SAVER"~!

 

[Phil DeGraves]

"I continue to search for documented instances of 1911 pistols going off from being dropped on their muzzles, and I have yet to find one documented instance of an unmodified 1911 in good repair discharging due to a drop on the muzzle from any kind of normal height..."

While I don't have documentation on it, I have heard that the reason for the 80 series safety was because of paratroopers with BHPs and 1911s with a round chambered that would discharge upon hitting the ground. I believe you could create the same situation if you dropped the pistol on its muzzle from 30 feet.
It all sounded ridiculous to me, since I am not jumping out of airplanes with loaded guns and am not likely to be jumping or falling off of anything 30 feet high with my pistol holstered, but we are in the age of litigation.

 

[JoeSlomo]

I own a new Kimber custom TLE / RL II and currently have a love / hate relationship with the thing...

I bought it because a buddie has one that shoots MUCH better than my SA Govt model 1911 and figured that the extra accuracy can't hurt during our local IDPA / Action pistol matches.

Up until I purchased the Kimber, I was completely unaware that 1911's had so many "issue's" simply because my springfield ALWAYS fires. Much like a prostitute , my 5" springfield will take any and all comers, factory or reload, no problem, out of any magazine I have ever used. I attribute this to the somewhat "loose" nature of the gun, which doesn't do much for extreme accuracy, but makes er' reliable.

The Kimber...not so much. It's a tighter gun, and while it shoots more accurately, it's having teething problems right out of the box. I had stoppages immediately with the kimber using 230 grain win ball ammo. After doing some research, I narrowed the issue down to a tight extractor, loosened it up a bit, and she is running much better. She is now approaching about the 600 round mark, and the contact surfaces are smoothing out and polished, which is leading to smoother action, but I wouldn't trust it for duty until I get a serious run on time between stoppages.

My buddies kimbers have thousands of rounds through them, run pretty much flawlessly, and are stupid accurate for a production .45.

So, while the kimber has the potential to be a great pistol, it also has the potential to be a nightmare, but you can say that about most pistols.

 

[wtfd661]

I carry a Sig P220 as my duty weapon, because I have to (department issued), off duty I carry a Kimber Tactical Ultra II (with zero problems, no FTE, FTF, FTB, etc.) The Sig is a fine weapon, but given the choice I would gladly carry a Kimber even if I had to purchase out of my own pocket.

 

[wally]

I'd go with the SIG P220R SAO over the current Kimbers, if it was between the older pre-Series II guns, my love of the 1911 would win out.

But I'd take the Kimber over any DA/SA or DAO or half-cocked striker gun.

--wally.

 

[Ske1etor]

The Kimber SIS is a regular kimber with a grey finish, a solid trigger, and blocky sights, that can act as a mechanism to work the slide by using only one hand. They still insist on the one piece steel guide rod, and still rely on the custom II package, which putd spring tension on the rear sight, and makes for a crappy trigger pull. The first SIS guns were based on the "classic" series and had no stupid, drop safety, but Kimber has since went back to the Series II platform, and added a titanium firing pin. Ya'll know anything about titanium? It is brittle and tends to break, or shear, before bending. I don't like it a bit.

My +2

Actually, the SIS Custom and SIS Custom RL have the GI style guide rod and NONE of the SIS's have the Schwartz safety.

For a service gun, I recommend the SIG... For me... I recommend the Kimber.

 

[Lobotomy Boy]

I've shot tens of thousands of rounds through Glocks, CZs, and Rugers, along with quite a few rounds through Sigs, XDs, and HK USPs, and I've shot hundreds of rounds through various 1911 platform guns. Some of the 1911s have been very good, but for the rest--at least 95+ percent of the jams I've had have been in the small percentage of rounds I've shot through 1911 guns.

Don't get me wrong--I love 1911s. I'm sure most Kimbers are fine, and those that aren't can be made to work--if you have one you know is reliable, more power to you. But if my life was on the line, I'd go with the guns I know that I can depend on beyond a shadow of a doubt. Life or death situations are not the place for theoretical discussions about aesthetics or personality or soul. Give me a Glock or a CZ or a Ruger or an HK or a Sig, please.

 

[Ske1etor]

Sorry to burst your bubble but there ain't a single firearm on this planet that can be depended on without a shadow of a doubt. Firearms are man made machines. Anything man made can and will fail and anything mechanical can and will fail. Put those two together and you have an item that is prone to failure.

I don't trust anything beyond a shadow of a doubt. To make that claim means that you would pick up any firearm from anyone of your suggested manufacturers and stick it in a holster and go on your duty.

I can be 99% sure that my firearm will work every time I pull the trigger but that extra 1% is a delusion.

Pick the firearm you want, run your own reliability tests with it. If you are satisfied then carry it. Don't assume that every single Sig will come out of the box running perfectly.

 

[Mister V]

Funny I should find this thread. Earlier today I was at a gun show and listened to a vendor talking about Sig and Kimber. He told a potential customer that a lot of people say they want a Kimber 1911, which he said is fine if you don't mind having to get the trigger repaired after 1000 rounds. The vendor recommended Sig 1911's but, since he sells them, that was expected.

I'm considering adding a .45 to my collection at some point in the future and reliability is important, but I think durability and repair records a little more so for me. So, with the understanding that the best made gun can break or fail at any time, how would others here rate Sig and Kimber for repairs and durability? And by that I don't mean the quality of their customer service. I mean the need or lack of need for repairs other than normal wear and tear. I'm not opposed to knowing how you'd rate these 2 brands with others as well. With all the choices these days I won't rule out anything.

Rich

 

[mr.trooper]

I would choose a 1911, because i don't like DA/SA guns.

SAO or DAO for me thanks. Maybe a 220 DAK?

 

[9mmepiphany]

The 1911 is an aficionado's weapon, and still has a place in the modern arsenal for those who are dedicated to it

i highly respect Hilton Yam as concerns the 1911 for duty and agree with his opinion. the 1911 is more maintenece intensive and requires much more committment and attention than the 220.

"Sig, the other isn't an option as a serious gun."

--Tell that to LAPD SWAT and SIS, FBI's HRT, and the USMC's Special Operations Command!

i think that you'll find that these agencies have heavy armourer support. i seem to remember the LAPD issues 2 identical Kimbers to each of the officers

i have carryed both a 1911 (Colt Combat Commander) and Sig 220 (regular, pre-rail) as duty guns and would highly recommend the 220 to anyone other than a dedicated 1911 operator.

while the 220ST is a great shooting gun (I have 2), you might find it a bit weighty at the end of a 12 hour shift. i'd give up the additional recoil dampening for the comfort of the alloy frame

 

[HorseSoldier]

If you're talking about a Kimber you've already owned and put through its paces and know it runs, I'd go with the 1911.

For an off the shelf purchase, I'd feel better with the Sig P220. (Or a higher end 1911 in the Wilson, Ed Brown, or Les Baer price range.)

 

[Zach S]

I voted for the "high-end Kimber," although mine are "entry level" Kimbers. No custom shop stuff here. All of them have been rode hard and put away wet. Before I carried it, I put about 4k rounds through my EDC with nothing more than lube. Its a stainless pistol, which is a good thing. I had to blast it to get it clean.

I dont own a P220, or any of the fine pistols SIG has to offer, although a P220 is on my list. If I still have a job at the end of next month, and I get my bonus, I may have to pick one up...

i think that you'll find that these agencies have heavy armourer support. i seem to remember the LAPD issues 2 identical Kimbers to each of the officers

Its not a spare. Their lighted guns have Surefire 610Rs on them, and they aren't exactly easy to remove and reinstall. So they have their lighted pistols for SWAT calls, and use the other for when they don't need (or want) the extra bulk of the light.

 

[johnnylaw53]

As long as you know what you are doing with a 1911 type weapon and they don't mind you carrying it cock and lock go for the Kimber. In the mid 80's my department let the narcs carry what they wanted to we was working a deal that was moved to Houston once the deal went down one of our narcs was putting his 45 in his waist band and shot his self in the leg almost lost him. After we got back to our department the sheriff walked in and told us 1911 are no longer allowed. I still think they are great LE weapons but sad most departments don't have the budget to properly train LEO's who would carry them.

be safe

 

[jocko]

sometimes some of these "top" organizations just want to be different than anybody else. because the SWAT, FBI or anyone else wants to shoot 1911, sure doesnt rule out Sigs, or glocks as being worse.

I know I will get flamed here, but IO the 1911's have served it time and served it well. A great gun today but better IMO are out there..

 

[glockman19]

I'll take the Kimber Custom Shop high end 1911 over a Sig.

 

[1911shooter]

SIG all the way. better reliability, cheaper. and more accurate. plain and simple better all around pistol.

 

[9mmepiphany]

I'll take the Kimber Custom Shop high end 1911 over a Sig.

i might do that too, but i don't think the Kimber would stand much of a chance against a similarly customized Sig.

they even point as well when you add Hogue Extreme grips

 

[Mister V]

Lots of good input in a very short time. Thanks. I have plenty of time to think this over and maybe try out each at a local range. Meanwhile I went back to the gun show and decided the Para 1911 feels really nice so maybe I'll need to try that one some day. And I bought a CZ75.

Maybe I should've asked which .45 is as reliable, rugged and fun to shoot as the Ruger Mk. 1 Standard I bought in 1979. Shooting that pistol still makes me smile 30 years later. Feel free to insert your own snide relationships and the opposite sex here.

Rich

 

[Anna's Dad]

Neither would be my first choice for a duty gun, but I'd go with the Sig over the Kimber.

I have read too many reports Kimbers with feeding or other reliability problems. I'm sure the huge majority of Kimbers are fine guns but I think the Sig would be a better choice for a duty gun.

If your question was for a range gun rather than a duty gun, I'd say either would be fine and advise you to choose whichever one feels better in your hands or performs better for you if you get to try 'em out.

 

[shooter1]

Well, what do you know! Been there, done that! I owned both a Kimber SS Target l and a Sig 220. Both were as reliable as a mechanical device could be. I chose the Kimber. Why? Because I could shoot it so much better than the Sig. I could shoot in the 480s with the Sig. My first qual with the Kimber, I shot a 497/500 and backed it up with a 500/500! Later I was required to carry a Glock 21. I didn't shoot it as well as the Kimber or the Sig, but it's hard to argue with 13+1 rounds of .45acp!!! Carry the one you shoot best, and train, train, train!
str1

 

[SigP229R]

I voted for the Sig simply because I already have two ( A P229R .40 and a P6 9mm), I like them both and the 229 is my daily CC and besides all that they are the easiest pistols to breakdown and clean that I have ever used.