Police Gun Buyback Events: Are You Ever Curious?

[fiddleharp]

Our local police department recently held a gun buy-back event that was covered by all the local TV news media. 120 guns were collected.
http://www.fmpolice.com/CivicAlerts.aspx?AID=496
As the camera panned across the table, I could make out numerous long guns mixed in among the usual "jam-o-matic" pistols. Several of these rifles and shotguns appeared to be if not antiques, at least collectables.
My curiosity got the best of me and I e-mailed the police department, asking for a list of the makes and model numbers of the weapons collected that day.
They never replied.
Is it just me, or are you guys ever curious about what types of firearms are turned in at these events?
Maybe it's just the sight of all those scopes and tooled leather slings headed for destruction that gets me down. I also can't help but visualize some young person bagging his first gobbler or buck with one of these old but apparently functioning long guns. I do recall that my first shotgun was rather old and cheap.
Have any of you ever inquired about this to your local police department?

 

[WVGunman]

I have never though about this, but it wouldn't surprise me if the entire force all took their pick of the haul before sending the rest to the incinerator.
I think gun buybacks are just pissing into the wind. That being said, I don't approve of the cynics who eagerly turn in broke p.o.s. guns they just would've thrown away otherwise.

 

[hdwhit]

Is it just me, or are you guys ever curious about what types of firearms are turned in at these events?

I am not aware of my local police department having ever conducted a gun buy-back event, but police departments in several other locations where I have lived have done so.

I was been present at one of them and while I could never prove it, it seemed to me that - other than the widows turning in a deceased spouse's gun - the guns being turned in looked like they were worth less than the $25 of $50 the police were paying for them.

Have any of you ever inquired about this to your local police department?

No. The departments conducting the buy-backs were acting as agents for whatever organization it was that put up the money to conduct the buy-back and they would have turned those records over to the organization.

 

[giggitygiggity]

I want to post outside of one of the buy backs and offer people money for good guns that they are taking in. That $1000 pre-64 Winchester 70 that you're planning to get $100 for as part of the buyback... How's bout I give you $200 for it, heck I'll even do $300?

Granted, I'm sure most of the guns are junkers, but I'm sure some valuable guns get bought back.

What I think is criminal is how items in evidence are usually ordered to be incinerated. I know of many excellent guns being disposed of because of that policy. If anything, auction them off and use the revenues to fund the department. It's better than them being destroyed.

 

[Rock185]

Yes I am. Thought about taking a worthless junk gun to one just to satisfy my curiosity, but it would have been about a 150 mile or so round trip just to satisfy my curiosity. Figured I might have netted enough to pay for gas and a big orange drink at best I suspect it would take a formal FOIA request to have any hope of finding out what type of firearms were turned in. I do know that many times when gun owner's die, the widow just wants the guns gone. Sometimes given away to friends, other times simply turned into the local PD, sometimes sold in bulk at ~50% of retail to an FFL,etc. From experience I can tell you that some really good stuff gets disposed of that way. I was told of a recent situation by a person I trust. The widow gave the deceased husband's guns to the handyman who was doing some home repair after his death. Apparently,the handyman was to liquidate the guns and give some portion of the proceeds to the widow. I'm not privy to the financial details, but wonder if she or the handyman made out best on that deal. We can all probably guess the answer. I do know there were some nice guns involved.

 

[OldMac]

I am curious why the police sold the guns in the first place?

I am also curious if the county implements consistent gun policy at school and at these gun buys. Can i get my $25 for using my thumb and index finger to point while saying pow. How about chewing a pop tart into a 1911 for $50?

 

[berettaprofessor]

^^^^Wins the annual "Most Sarcastic Posting" award.

 

[jmr40]

It would be illegal in most, if not all places to spend tax dollars to buy guns like this. Every event that I've been aware of has been sponsored by churches, or other groups who raise the money to purchase the guns. They usually hire off-duty cops to handle the weapons. It is hard to tell here, but since the event is being held at a church I'd think this is the same. The way the article is worded it makes it appear otherwise.

I've taken in cheap junk guns in the past and gotten far more from them than they were worth. I'd do it again if they ever have another one near here. I believe it is a win/win for us and them. They get to feel good, and I get money for junk.

 

[joem1945]

If the police ever offer a buy back program around here, I've got a real junk I'll sell them. I'll take the money and but more reloading components.

 

[zb338]

I have friends that acquire junk pistols and go to buy back
police departments and sell them when one comes around.
I'm surprised to hear of a dept. selling any of the buy backs.
Their goal is to take the guns off the street and melt them.

Zeke

 

[Panzerschwein]

+1

Why not? I don't see any issue with that. I've got a busted up Marlin Model 60 that I've been needing to get rid of. I'd do the exact same thing.

 

[Elkins45]

I am curious why the police sold the guns in the first place?

I am also curious if the county implements consistent gun policy at school and at these gun buys. Can i get my $25 for using my thumb and index finger to point while saying pow. How about chewing a pop tart into a 1911 for $50?

Makes me wish there were a "like" button.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Opening Post:
... Is it just me, or are you guys ever curious about what types of firearms are turned in at these events? ... Have any of you ever inquired about this to your local police department?

I don't think there has ever been a local buyback. I have bolded in the NAS quote below what the Police Executive Research Forum determined about buyback guns.

National Academy of Sciences, National Research Council,
"Firearms and Violence: A Critical Review" (2004) Gun Buy-Backs
http://www.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=10881&page=95

Gun Buy-Backs

Gun buy-back programs involve a government or private group paying individuals to turn in guns they possess. The programs do not require the participants to identify themselves, in order to encourage participation by offenders or those with weapons used in crimes. The guns are then destroyed. The theoretical premise for gun buy-back programs is that the program will lead to fewer guns on the streets because fewer guns are available for either theft or trade, and that consequently violence will decline. It is the committee’s view that the theory underlying gun buy-back programs is badly flawed and the empirical evidence demonstrates the ineffectiveness of these programs.

The theory on which gun buy-back programs is based is flawed in three respects.

First, the guns that are typically surrendered in gun buy-backs are those that are least likely to be used in criminal activities. Typically, the guns turned in tend to be of two types: (1) old, malfunctioning guns whose resale value is less than the reward offered in buy-back programs or (2) guns owned by individuals who derive little value from the possession of the guns (e.g., those who have inherited guns). The Police Executive Research Forum (1996) found this in their analysis of the differences between weapons handed in and those used in crimes. In contrast, those who are either using guns to carry out crimes or as protection in the course of engaging in other illegal activities, such as drug selling, have actively acquired their guns and are unlikely to want to participate in such programs.

Second, because replacement guns are relatively easily obtained, the actual decline in the number of guns on the street may be smaller than the number of guns that are turned in.

Third, the likelihood that any particular gun will be used in a crime in a given year is low. In 1999, approximately 6,500 homicides were committed with handguns. There are approximately 70 million handguns in the United States. Thus, if a different handgun were used in each homicide, the likelihood that a particular handgun would be used to kill an individual in a particular year is 1 in 10,000. The typical gun buy-back program yields less than 1,000 guns. Even ignoring the first two points made above (the guns turned in are unlikely to be used by criminals and may be replaced by purchases of new guns), one would expect a reduction of less than one-tenth of one homicide per year in response to such a gun buy-back program. The program might be cost-effective if those were the correct parameters, but the small scale makes it highly unlikely that its effects would be detected.

In light of the weakness in the theory underlying gun buy-backs, it is not surprising that research evaluations of U.S. efforts have consistently failed to document any link between such programs and reductions in gun violence (Callahan et al., 1994; Police Executive Research Forum, 1996; Rosenfeld, 1996).

Outside the United States there have been a small number of buy-backs of much larger quantities of weapons, in response to high-profile mass murders with firearms. Following a killing of 35 persons in Tasmania in 1996 by a lone gunman, the Australian government prohibited certain categories of long guns and provided funds to buy back all such weapons in private hands (Reuter and Mouzos, 2003). A total of 640,000 weapons were handed in to the government (at an average price of approximately $350), constituting about 20 percent of the estimated stock of weapons. The weapons subject to the buy-back, however, accounted for a modest share of all homicides or violent crimes more generally prior to the buy-back. Unsurprisingly, Reuter and Mouzos (2003) were unable to find evidence of a substantial decline in rates for these crimes. They noted that in the six years following the buy-back, there were no mass murders with firearms and fewer mass murders than in the previous period; these are both weak tests given the small numbers of such incidents annually.

My take on buy-backs Aside:

Most of the time, the buy-back event is the first time that the particular gun has been "on the street" so rather than take the gun off the street, the buy-back event put the gun on the street. Given the number of people who I have seen show up at gun shows with inherited guns they did not want and those guns turned out to be loaded when inspected, public buy-backs may be a danger to public safety.

I have a Noble Model 40 pump I bought for $8 (eight dollars) that someone had stripped of its cartridge carrier to repair a better example of the model (it is safely funtional as a single shot shotgun). I had single shot .22 rifle and a .380 pistol that gave good service for decades until parts failure made them more economical to replace than to repair. I have an EMF and FIE brass frame revolvers at the end of their usable lives and two black powder era .38 S&W revolvers in NRA Poor condition, no resale value as guns or collectibles, but some pleasant keepsake memories attached.

Seven junkers, at $50 each, $350 buyback value or at $100, $700. I would not turn them in at a "buy-back" at any price. I refuse to participate in an event that is a useless farce. I refuse to give my blessing to an anti-gun agenda that demonizes guns and by extension gun owners. Local murders of note included a stabbing in a boarding house, a couple beaten to death with a baseball bat in their home, a war vet hammered and stabbed in his home, a druggie beaten to death with a rock by her "friends", two drug dealers executed with a gun by rival dealers. If anyone local offered knife, baseball bat, hammer, rock or gun buy-backs as answers to the violence problem ... I am not sure what I would do but I would not show up get a giftcard.

 

[Stony]

Check out ebay sometime and see how many guns you can buy....minus the frame. Quite a few firearms are stripped and sold for parts by individual officers or at least the officers are involved somehow. This occurs with turn in guns as well as court ordered guns that have to be destroyed. Scopes, stocks, internal pistol parts, slides....all kinds of valuable stuff. With a number of departments only the frames are required to be destroyed.
If the money from all this went to a good cause, I would have less of a problem with it.....

 

[thump_rrr]

I remember a few years ago there wasa story of a woman in Conneticut who was turning in an STG44 worth over $20,000.
Fortunately the police made her aware of the value and told her that she should sell it.

 

[Hardtarget]

I know their "stated goal" is but I always wonder what really happens to the real GEMs that show up. And who goes home with them.

Mark

 

[Speedo66]

I traveled from Westchester Co. NY to NYC many years ago to participate in a high priced gun buyback scheme. It was held in a church in a bad Brooklyn neighborhood and officiated by khaki clad range officers from the NYPD, with money donated by Chase Bank.

Hundreds of people showed up, line stretched out the door. There was a huge pile of gun cases on the floor, I really wanted to take some of the nicer leather ones home.

I saw mostly hunting guns, i.e., bolt action rifles and lever actions, some with expensive scopes. Why not take the scopes off and sell them separately? However, there were also military collectibles like M-1's, and Carbines.

The star of the show was a US marked Colt Single Action Army, which the officers kept on the counter, rather than throwing it into the piles behind them. I asked about it's eventual disposition, "you're not sending that out to be made into hangers, are you?" I was told no, it would be kept at the range for training purposes. I have often wondered if it made back to official safekeeping or wound up in some higher ranking officers collection.

Myself, I sold a rusted out .22 rifle, a similar single shot shotgun, a .22 starter pistol converted to shoot .22 shorts, and a broken Daisy air rifle. I netted $425 and used it to buy a Mossberg pump shotgun for my son and a Marlin Papoose rifle for myself. Definitely worth the trip.

 

[Sniper66]

I heard a police chief recently talking up the buy-back programs and how they get guns " off the street". Truth be told these silly programs are getting guns out of basements and closets, not "off the street". Such feel-good stunts are a misguided waste of time and money. Now, if they wanted to do some good they could have an auction to sell the occasional good gun that turns up, along with slings and scopes. Then donate the proceeds to an appropriate charity.

 

[stchman]

First off how can an entity "buy back" something that they have never owned?

Second, a gun "buy-back" is nothing but some feel good thing for antis.

Third, they have zero to negligible impact on crime.

Fourth, they are just plain dumb.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

I don't want to know at all what types of guns are being turned in at these events. It would only make me sad.

Gun buy backs don't exist where I live either. People like their guns here, and the even would generate little to no attendance. You'd see better vegan attendance at a butchers and meat marketers convention in my area than at a gun buy back.

 

[TimSr]

Every once in a while you get the poor widow, who has no idea what she has, and ends up turning in a very valuable gun that was her husband's and gets peanuts for it, when she could really use the money.

 

[Rock185]

I agree that these buybacks are just political agenda driven feel good events that do nothing to reduce "gun violence". Just a comment on the "Cops" somehow personally benefiting from these buyback events, guns impounded as evidence, guns surrendered to the PD by people not wanting them for whatever reason, etc. I worked full time in LE for 30+ years. A large dept. for 2/3 of that time, a small one for the other 1/3. Along the way I was a firearms instructor and later an armorer so I had regular contact with the firearms end of both departments. I never knew of, or even heard of, an officer/s converting a firearm or parts of firearms to their own benefit on either department. It has no doubt happened, but within my humble experience, the incidence is much less than many firearms enthusiasts want to believe......

 

[entropy]

I want to post outside of one of the buy backs and offer people money for good guns that they are taking in. That $1000 pre-64 Winchester 70 that you're planning to get $100 for as part of the buyback... How's bout I give you $200 for it, heck I'll even do $300?

Granted, I'm sure most of the guns are junkers, but I'm sure some valuable guns get bought back.

What I think is criminal is how items in evidence are usually ordered to be incinerated. I know of many excellent guns being disposed of because of that policy. If anything, auction them off and use the revenues to fund the department. It's better than them being destroyed.

My Dad hated having to turn in a Bisley a guy had pointed at him, knowing it's fate was incineration.

Rock185; The gun shop I smithed for did work on the local Sherriff's Dept.'s guns, and they paid him with guns that they were done with as evidence. They were gone over and resold. We were allowed to pick one out each-I picked a Colt Cobra, got a great deal on it.

 

[Rock185]

entropy, Yes sir, guns turned in and/or no longer needed as evidence, where LE is unable to contact lawful owners, lawful owners didn't want them, owners deceased, owners had become prohibited possessors,etc. can legally be converted to department use. I handled a bunch of them. Before we did anything with them though, we did make every effort to return guns to lawful owners. In some cases we tracked down owners states away and/or years later. Some were used in the crime lab for characteristics comparisons,etc. Others were displayed in the Armory,mostly because they were felt to be too nice to destroy. Others, usually the lower quality type guns, were used as blue/non-firing guns for training. I did remove the firing pins,etc. from a bunch of these to insure there was no way they could be fired during training. So I don't doubt that your local Sheriff could do what you've indicated with guns legally converted to dept. use. But, there was no way that I or other officers could personally gain possession of any of the,sometimes really nice, firearms we handled other than out and out theft. Years ago, my Dept. in the big city auctioned off firearms to the public. As a city employee, I was not even allowed to bid on them....