Police Officer Fatally Shot by another Officer...Many Lessons to be Learned Here

[Colt]

The first 2 pictures do scream "COP!", but that's not how the uniformed officer found them.

Was he correct in drawing his weapon? Is that the way cops usually take down people? He's got the student pinned on the rear corner of the vehicle, and the vehicle has a tall back end, which keeps him from getting the student leaned forward and off balance. He has only one hand actually on the student, because his other is holding the pistol, while he keeps pressure on the student's back with his forearem. Is that a proper technique? He really doesn't look in control.

It looked like they were going to fall to their left, between the vehicles, and picture 3 came as no surprise.

I guess I don't understand why the pistol was drawn at all. Seems like showing a badge would be the first step, and then if he felt the situation was beyond his control, just backing off and waiting for other cops might have been the way to go.

I wasn't there, but something in my gut tells me the college kids probably got smart, resisted this guy's challenges, maybe even commented on the officer's stature, and that's when the cop decided to "show 'em" who's who. I just can't imagine what would have made the cop draw his weapon.

Tragic, for sure.

 

[carebear]

I'm not sure if it will help, but my current plan to yell police-sounding commands if I'm ever holding someone at gunpoint seems better and better. At least it can't hurt. Also, perhaps withdrawing the gun to a less-pronounced position rather than at full extension. With a cowed crowd or already subdued individual that should be enough threat to hold them back without appearing too aggressive to a responding cop.

But....

The photos show a completely different situation than the "cop shoots guy with gun in back" that's been painted so far. In that kind of scuffle there's no way "yelling commands" or "flashing a badge" is an option. It's a wrestling match with a gun involved.

Unfortunately, it seems that once the fight went to the ground, and the bike cop showed up after the badging took place, he just shot the shooter.

Which, as has been said, makes me, a non-LEO, kinda nervous since being the "man with a gun" does not and should not equal being "the bad guy" in anyone's mind, cop or non-cop.

Perhaps in places with CCW that needs to be heavily and often emphasized to both CCW classes AND in LEO training.

My personal feeling is that it would be better, big picture, for the responding officer not to have shoot with so little information given the moral and ethical problem of killing an innocent. "Better a guilty man go free..." and all that.

I'll accept the risk that such an attitude may lead to an assailant of me not getting plugged that objectively should have been.

 

[c_yeager]

So are some of those "kids" going to be charged with assaulting an officer? Seems prudent since they escalated the whole thing in the first place. They are not blameless.

Unless youve seen an article that I havent there is nothing to actually indicate that any of the students assaulted anyone, nor that the officer identified himself as such. That could very well be how it happened, but its assuming a lot.

 

[Jeff White]

It doesn't matter here who is charged and who isn't. The purpose of this thread is to discuss how to avoid being shot by the first responding officers in a similar situation. Feel free to post in the other thread in Genearl Gun Discussions.

CCW badges are NOT a good idea. The police are going to look at you as a wannbe at the best and someone who has intent to use the badge for illegal purposes at the worst. It might not be such a friendly chat over coffee if you start waving badges around and you don't have an official commission to go with it.

I still say that in a crowd like that, you need to disengage and holster your weapon as soon as possible. Trust me, almost everyone has a cell phone on their person and few people are shy about using it. I would imagine the officers working the game got several versions of what was happening over their portable radios as things were going down.

Every couple months we get sent out on a wild goose chase on the interstate, usually a cell report of a car overturned down the embankment, PSAP dispatches police, fire and EMS on a call like that. Some people think it's pretty funny to make up a call like that just to see everything roll. One of the ways we can tell it's a hoax is if the 911 center only gets one call. Usually a real accident gets several calls.

I'd be willing to bet that dispatch received numerous calls on the incident, and being good dispatchers, put out all the information on the radio as it came in. So who knows what the responding officers are going to think is happening as they arrive on the scene?

Jeff

 

[c_yeager]

It doesn't matter here who is charged and who isn't. The purpose of this thread is to discuss how to avoid being shot by the first responding officers in a similar situation.

We dont really even know what he did to get shot in the first place. Its *possible* that he swept the responding officers with his weapon. We cant really discuss how to avoid finding ourselves in his situation untill we actually know what that situation was.

 

[El Tejon]

When I turned 18 and started carrying a pistol, my father had me go talk to a crusty state cop from his gun club. He was sitting in an overstuffed chair in a smoky lounge, tall, but with a pot belly, forearms like hams. The old cop asked me one question: "Young man, how do you win a gunfight?"

Being me, I went into a detailed Jeff Cooper litany regarding "awareness", use of cover, inter alia. With squinting eyes, he cut me off with a raised hand and said "Don't get IN a gunfight." I remember starting to say something and then shutting up. I looked over my shoulder and my Dad was there nodding forcefully.

"Boy, the gun stays there [he grabbed my holstered pistol] unless there is no other way."

Do not let ego, pride, anger, lust, or whatever add holes to your body. The deceased should have back away and brought back the cavalry for a "what's all this then" moment with the frat boys and then kicked them out or arrested for Disorderly Conduct or the like.

Cop or "civilian", playing Batman will get you dead in a hurry. In a fight, everything will go wrong. Everyone dies, why speed up the trip?

There were plenty of other options other than the pistol for the cop. He let his emotion mind defeat his wisdom mind and went for his gun. He paid the ultimate price for it.

Perhaps some good will come of it. Maybe trainers will use this example to reinforce the concept of the pistol of no pistol. I hope so.

 

[Island Beretta]

If all you have is a hammer then everything is going to start looking like a nail..