Police Service Revolvers

[BattleChimp Potemkin]

I have an old Model 13 that our PD used a while ago. Best gun ive ever had! Came with the original wood grips so I went out and searched, found an original Bianchi Basketweave pattern holster and belt with it, plus 4 speedloader cases. I fell in love with it. Alot of the old guys and I get together and have old school police shoots (im the youngest and never was in the police, but accepted in Good guys!). I even have the draw and squatting stance down pat (not to mention we reload and fire era specific rounds, such as the 110 treasury load and the 158gr SWCHP). We have a great old time. Revolver fighting, in my mind, has fallen so badly due to automatics being the choice. Show me one vidoe or book, let alone instructor teaching revolver fighting (not just shooting). The old guys here taught me revolver fighting, and I would not trust my life to anything else .

 

[Brian Dale]

Show me one video or book, let alone instructor teaching revolver fighting (not just shooting). The old guys here taught me revolver fighting...

Agreed. Dad even taught me reloading the piece from loose cartridges in a trouser pocket—officers probably did that more often back then than people now would imagine. Part of the lesson: "If you only get four or five shells in your hand, that's OK. Put 'em into the cylinder and get back in the fight."

I'd rather have speedloaders or moon clips, but having seen and practiced how to do that quickly is one more tool. Of course I hope never to need it; that's not a reason to avoid learning about it.

Those guys were the Real Thing.

Now back to the revolvers themselves. Ala Dan, I hope that I haven't caused thread drift, Sir.

 

[Dienekes]

If choices are circa 1955: the M19 S&W was without doubt the best thing going for average sized hands. there were lots of M10s around and plenty of M15s in use. If I had bigger hands a 4" N frame in either .357 or .44 Special would get the nod. Some agencies gave you quite a bit of leeway in what you could carry, as did mine. Nowadays you tend to get what the beancounters think you should have--and every few years they get inspired by some new creation. Usually something black, ugly, with a trigger pull like a green twig.

The Colt BP with the heavy barrel hefted about like a M13. I issued myself one for a while and shot it moderately with wadcutters and the 110 grain "Treasury Load. The HB was nice but the Colt DA is not as good as S&Ws, and it is a bit more prone to acting up. And while the cylinder does in fact revolve "the right way", the ejector rod is out there unsupported and the only lockup is in back.

It's good to remember that the ammo of those days was not what it is now. The.38 Special was often a RNL, and the .357 a 158 grain SP. The use of hollow points in the late 70s was about as heated and politics-driven as you could get. You'd think we were going for tactical nuclear weapons instead of better ammo.

The truth is that with the good wheelguns and good ammo in the mid-80s, we were pretty well set. I switched around with various work guns for the first few years and spent the last 15 or so with either a Ruger Service Six or Security Six. IMHO they were just about the most bombproof of the whole bunch.

 

[Confederate]

All the guns mentioned were fine service revolvers, but the 27 and 28 were two of the most durable of the Smith line, while the Rugers were the undisputed workhorses of the medium-frame wheelguns. The Colt Pythons were too expensive and too fussy to keep in time, and the Trooper III was never very popular with cops because of the gorilla grips and the so-so accuracy. The Trooper IV was a much nicer gun. And while many police chiefs chose the S&W 19/66, the gun was clearly a lightweight and suffered terribly on quality control. The Rugers were unquestionably the best bets, with better quality control, tighter tolerances, and stronger frames, cylinders and forcing cones.

But, then, we couldn't expect a bunch of political appointees to know that.

 

[1BLINDREF]

Great topic!

Here is a picture of my father in laws Colt Official Police (his first duty weapon). He was with the Phila PD until he retired back in the late 70's.



It was made sometime in 1949 and has lots of "character".
He gave it to me for Christmas two years ago, a gift I'll cherish forever.
I thought about having it restored, but I decided to keep it as is. The character it has just makes it so much better.


Having posted the picture of the Colt.......

my choice would also be a S&W 19 with a 4" barrel. For me, its the perfect fit and a true classic.

 

[Black Knight]

I have several that I haved carried on duty (former Armed Security Officer, current Dept. of the Army Police Officer). I would choose either my 4" S&W 686, 4" Colt Python, 6" Colt Python, or 4" S&W Model 10HB. With the exception of the 4" Python all the others I have actually carried as a Security Officer. The 6" Python was carried in a Bianchi Model 27 Breakfront (plain black leather). I would love to find the same holster for my 4" Python, but a Gordon Davis Border Patrol Agent holster that I have for my 686 will do nicely.

BattleChimp Potemkin:

I agree as well. I was originally taught with revolvers and now have to carry a Beretta 92FS on duty. I do not feel out gunned when I carry a revolver. In fact due to all the training and qualifying I did over the years I feel very confident with them. Some trained with autos today think they have more shots so they have more opportunities to miss before it gets down to business. With a revolver we were trained its always down to business and each shot counted as if it were your last.

 

[Moonclip]

I have always wanted a Colt OP. If we are not limited to 1955 hire date I would maybe carry the 625-2. I forgot about the Colt Python also, I'd be proud to carry that also in 1955.

I prefer moonclips for reloading a DA revolver quickly but I'd feel comfortable with one of the DA S&W .44spl revolvers also. If past 1955, I'd possibly back it up with a Charter Arms Bulldog if I could find one I'd trust. Even today in most jurisdictions, I'd feel comfortable carrying my 625-2 and backing it up with a higher capacity autoloader like a Glock 26 or a S&W 6906.

 

[deputy tom]

sparkyguy has one just like my old duty gun but mine wasn't issued by the City of Pgh.Lots of my close associates were from that Dept. however.I still own mine and it is one of my favorites bar none.tom.

 

[Otony]

I would feel very comfortable and well served by a .38 Special Model 10, although I would rather opt for hard chrome or electroless nickel over old fashioned nickle. Too bad these finishes were not around in the 50's, at least not in the firearms field.

Make mine a 4" heavy barrel, smooth trigger, and spurless DA only hammer. Grips are almost too personal to discuss, as what works for me is garbage for someone else, but the Ahrends with no finger grooves fits quite well for my hands. Since those were not around, then I would go with factory Magnas with a T-grip. Holster is a real no brainer, a break front Berns-Martin would be as far as I looked. I actually own a break front Safariland (for a Model 10, heh-heh) made from their leather look kydex that is an even better holster than the older Bianchis and Berns-Martins, simply because it is slimmer and lighter, but I would be happy with the old school.

As a backup, I would look no further than a similarly finished and bobbed Colt Detective Special, simply because I find them easier to shoot well than a J-frame. Plus there is the added benefit of the Colt being able to use the same ammunition, although what was around in '55 wasn't much to shout about. The unshrouded barrel would save a bit of weight, and I would make sure it was fitted with a Tyler T-grip. Leather? Some sort of pocket holster.

If I was allowed to stroll a few years into the future, I would be interested in a .357 fixed sight GP-100 with the short shroud, or a Smith 581 would get the nod, with the Ruger being my first choice. Backup would be the same Colt, IF I could not find a Magnum Carry, with a Bianchi Speed Strip to feed it in either case.

Why, oh why doesn't some manufacturer take up the mantle from Colt and start making the Magnum Carry again! I would use it with .38's, but having the .357 option is a distinct advantage. The 6 shot D-frame is the perfect snub platform, and far out performs the J-frame. We have only the Rossi 461/462 in this camp as of this writing, and quality control is reportedly spotty. Even so, a 461 is next on my "must buy" list, if only to see for myself.

Otony

 

[Confederate]

I have an old Model 13 that our PD used a while ago. Best gun ive ever had!

The 13 was indeed a classic. Poor choice of a number, but the gun itself was superb. I think everyone who ever bought one of these new remembers the day they bought it and what it was like all nice and new in the box. If there was ever a more perfect gun for the drawer in the home...well, the 13 would have been mighty close to it. It was always one of my top choices to show people who had never seen or held a handgun before. It was simply an elegant revolver. Smith & Wesson no longer has what it takes to produce a gun like that again. The deep bluing was not eco-friendly and it would have looked dumb with a lock.

If someone has a nice photo of one they can post, I'd love to see it!

 

[ar15a292f]

I would choose the 6" Heavy Barrel Official Police in 38 Special. I just picked it up 2 weeks ago. It was made in 1959. I will add a Tyler T-grip to it. It currently wears what I think are imitation stag service style stocks. I am looking for a set of checkered walnut service stocks for it.

 

[Ash]

Don't know about the Gorilla Grip issue with the Trooper, there are large grips but there are great service-style grips (I have both types). Service grips work just fine and are not hand-filling.

As to accuracy, I've not heard of Colts being inaccurate revolvers. Also are you sure about the Mk IV? I think you mean Mk V, which replaced the Mk III. The Anaconda and King Cobra are based on the Mk V design.

Ash

 

[golden]

Does Not Sound Right

ALA DAN,

I used to carry the .357 magnum and it was the 125 grain jacketed hollow point load that made this caliber's reputation. If we stick to 1955, I do not think that load was available.
Even the 110 jhp loads did not appear till the 1960's.
My 1958 GUN DIGEST lists only the 158 grain lead and full metal jacket loads. These were heavy recoiling, LOUD and most likely to over penetrate.

In the .44 and 45 calibers, only large, heavy lead round nose ammo was available. Not much of a choice.

If stuck with a revolver, then a S&W in .44 special or .45ACP with a 4 inch barrel.
However, given the time line, I think that a COLT .45ACP pistol would have been a better choice.

Jim

 

[coyotehitman]

Alot of the old guys and I get together and have old school police shoots

This is a fantastic idea. I have been wanting to put together a nostalgic duty rig for some time. Do you have any old police load data or other info on who issued what during the 70-80's revolver era that you could share with me. If so, please PM me.


My choice would be the Smith 28 hwy patrolman or a Smith .41 mag, carried in a clamshell holster.

 

[keyboard commando]

COLT Official Police

SMITH & WESSON Model 10-5

SMITH & WESSON Model 12-2

SMITH & WESSON 357 MAGNUM (pre model 27)

SMITH & WESSON Military & Police (pre model 10)

 

[Will5A1]

Make mine a pre-21, shipped April 8, 1955.

 

[ravencon]

About a year ago I acquired a M66 that had been retired from a small town CT police department. Sure, it has some honest holster wear but the action is slick and it shoots well. It isn't my fanciest revolver but I like it just fine.

 

[LeonCarr]

Lots of nice nice revolvers on this thread.

My pick is a 4 inch S&W Model 65. It is the classic Model 10, in .357 Magnum, in stainless steel.

The one I own was almost sold in a fit of stupidity, but I found myself just in time .

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

 

[Cosmoline]

For uniformed duty belt carry, I'd go with a Colt OP 4"

For plainclothes concealed, I'd go with what I have, a Detective Special from the early 1950's

 

[moewadle]

SW Model 21

from the 2007 Catalog...their classics line. I just found a NIB and put on layaway. Nickel, wood grips, 4" barrel, 6 in the wheel, .44 Special.

 

[Seafarer12]

It's hard to beat a 4 inch Smith in 357. I have a model 19-3 and it is a truely fine firearm. I know the stainless models are nice because they are rust resistant but as far as a thing of beauty and old style blue finish is hard to beat.

 

[420Stainless]

A Python for me. 2nd choice would be a Model 19. Wouldn't turn my nose up at any of those choices though.

 

[Archie]

If I had the money, I'd go for a blue, four inch Combat Magnum.

If I had to do with less money outlay, a four inch Military & Police would probably fit the bill.

With luck, I'd have a 3.5 inch .357 Magnum as a duty gun. But that would take some extra money. If real lucky, a four inch Target Model of 1950 in either .44 Special or .45 ACP would do very nicely.

Any of these guns with the S&W target grips would be good. I don't remember when Steve Herrett first started carving grips, but a set of his, or Walter Roper's or Fitz grips made a big difference in handling. Especially for that M&P with the simple 'magna' stocks.

Someone mentioned ammunition as a limiting factor. The ammunition of the day in factory form was not as breathtaking as it is today. However, most jurisdictions were fairly lenient in the use of handloaded ammunition. So saying, the lowly .38 Special takes on new meaning with 158 grain SWC bullets and higher doses of 2400 powder. As does the .357 Magnum - except more so. .44 Special was not an overwhelming round in factory form; but a SWC bullet and between seven and eight grains of Unique made it quite suitable for social work. The same held true of the .45 ACP or .45 AutoRim round.

A Don Hume or Tex Shoemaker or George Lawrence holster would have served nicely. Obviously whatever the department mandated, but plain black has always looked very elegant to me.

 

[vanilla_gorilla]

Given the 1955 date, I'll take a 5 inch .357 Magnum

 

[roo_ster]

Hokay, a service revolver in 1955.

Let me preface this with the fact that I am a relatively large guy and like the way a large revolver fits my hand, give appropriate grips. I also shoot them better than small/med revolvers.

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My first choice would be a 4" bbl large-frame S&W with adjustable sights chambered in .45ACP. I would have it factory nickeled upon purchase. I am not sure of the model designation, but I believe such a critter had been produced sometime after WWI.

Second choice would be the above in .45Colt.

For plain-clothes duty, one of the above with a 2.5-3" bbl.

I would prefer a LSWC projectile in my cartridges.

Backup would be a S&W small-frame Chief's Special in .38spl, bobbed hammer, factory nickeled.

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If l must have a med-frame revolver, I would choose one of the adjustable sight S&W .38spl revolvers.