Sindawe
Member
Proof that the Gods are not without a sense of humor, perverse though it may be.
Police Stop Man Wearing Armored Helmet, Vest In SUV
- Thread starter Drizzt
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benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
The dose makes the poison...
Botulinum B toxin makes an excellent pharmaceutical at very low doses. My sister has had the injections for chronic migraines. It's a very specific enzyme that cleaves a very specific protein in motor neurons, not a systemic poison like, say, cadmium or something. Which is also why it's so effective at low doses.
The problem is when you get a systemic dose high enough to paralyze important muscles like the ones you use for breathing, of course.
Botulinum B toxin makes an excellent pharmaceutical at very low doses. My sister has had the injections for chronic migraines. It's a very specific enzyme that cleaves a very specific protein in motor neurons, not a systemic poison like, say, cadmium or something. Which is also why it's so effective at low doses.
The problem is when you get a systemic dose high enough to paralyze important muscles like the ones you use for breathing, of course.
RevDisk
Member
No, the dose just determines how much 'damage' is done. The toxin is the same, regardless of dose. In small doses, only minor nerve damage. For some people, that cures chronic migraines. For others, it paralyzes the face to an extent.
Botox is nothing more than a biochemical weapon diluted with saline. Evaporate some of the saline, you're back to having a biochem weapon.
benEzra
Moderator Emeritus
No different than how a lot of other medicines work. If nerves are malfunctioning, "damaging" them by cleaving an enzyme to reduce their spurious activity is actually a healing process. Btox doesn't damage the nerves per se, it just shuts down some of their activity (depending on the dose, how much of that activity).
Go look up the pharmacology of all your most-used medicines and see how they work. Many are low-dose analogs of plant toxins that would be fatal at high doses, but are therapeutic at low doses.
Go look up the pharmacology of all your most-used medicines and see how they work. Many are low-dose analogs of plant toxins that would be fatal at high doses, but are therapeutic at low doses.
duckslayer
Member
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- Jan 29, 2004
- Messages
- 497
Are we starting to drift off subject a little here?
mtnbkr
Member
I have you beat. Once, for Homecoming at my University, we dressed a guy's minivan to look like a giant camel (school mascot). This thing had legs and body painted on the van with tempra paint, but the hump, neck, and head were made from chickenwire, newspaper, and paper mache. After the parade, we took it for a high speed cruise down the rural back roads of NC for some velocity testing with a vanload of college kids. The hump held on till about 45mph. IIRC, the head and neck stayed on.
Today, we'd be terrorist suspects rather than crazy college kids. :banghead:
Chris
gunsmith
member
more
http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050514/NEWS02/505140323/1019/NEWS03
Resident: Firing unnecessary
By RICHARD LIEBSON
[email protected]
THE JOURNAL NEWS
(Original publication: May 14, 2005)
A Patterson man who was stopped by the FBI and police in Scarsdale, after he was spotted driving near the Kensico Reservoir wearing a military-style helmet, said yesterday that authorities overreacted when they shot him with a Taser and blew up his knapsack.
"I think they all acted like idiots,'' 43-year-old Michael Jansen said of the incident Wednesday, when police evacuated about 12 houses near Post and Gorham roads and diverted traffic from the area for four hours while members of the Westchester County Bomb Squad searched his car and used a water cannon to destroy a knapsack containing batteries, wires and electronic equipment.
Authorities also seized what they described as "canisters, including one containing an unknown liquid.'' Jansen said the "canister'' was a thermos filled with cranberry juice. No explosives were found, and police confirmed yesterday that tests showed the liquid was not dangerous.
"None of this would have happened if they would have asked me a few questions,'' Jansen said during a telephone interview from Westchester Medical Center in Valhalla, where he is being held for psychiatric evaluation. Jansen said he has undergone brain surgery four times since 1999 to remove a tumor and wears the helmet to protect his head.
"I've been stopped by police in northern Westchester and Putnam several times," he said. "They ask me why I'm wearing a helmet, and I show them a form I have that says I've had head injuries. Until now, they've always been polite about it and let me go.''
An FBI spokesman, Agent James Margolin, could not be reached for comment yesterday but said Thursday that the case is closed and no charges will be filed against Jansen. White Plains police would not comment, saying the case belonged to the FBI.
Police said an FBI task force member started following Jansen through White Plains after spotting him on Route 22 wearing the helmet and with a camera mounted on his car's dashboard. The FBI contacted White Plains police for assistance, and Jansen was stopped in Scarsdale.
Jansen said he works as a freelance photographer and was on Route 22 when he noticed he was being followed while he was driving through White Plains.
At that point, he said, he turned on a video camera mounted in his car and taped the entire incident. White Plains police said the tape was seized and is in the custody of the FBI.
"When I got out of the car I thought it was just a traffic stop, but the police started yelling and screaming at me on a speaker and they were pointing all kinds of weapons at me," he said. "I was holding up the paper I have with a picture of my head injuries.''
Police said Jansen was shot with a Taser after he ignored several orders to stop walking toward them. Jansen said the police were about 50 yards away from him and that he couldn't understand them. He said when he did hear them say to get on the ground he didn't want to because he was afraid he might hurt his head. At that point, he was shot with the Taser, he said, and several officers took him to the ground and ripped the helmet from his head.
"Would you pull a person out of a wheelchair to arrest him? I don't think so,'' Jansen said.
Once at White Plains police headquarters, he said, "they treated me well, but they wouldn't let me call a lawyer or make a phone call. They questioned me for about four or five hours. But they acted more normal, and a few of them apologized and said they made a mistake.''
Jansen's mother, Christina Jansen, said police came to the apartment she shares with her son Wednesday afternoon and searched his room.
"They were sent by the FBI, and I think they were embarrassed,'' she said yesterday.
Jansen said he expects to be released from the hospital Monday.
"When I get out the first thing I'm going to do is put my helmet on,'' he said.
http://www.thejournalnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050514/NEWS02/505140323/1019/NEWS03
Resident: Firing unnecessary
By RICHARD LIEBSON
[email protected]
THE JOURNAL NEWS
(Original publication: May 14, 2005)
A Patterson man who was stopped by the FBI and police in Scarsdale, after he was spotted driving near the Kensico Reservoir wearing a military-style helmet, said yesterday that authorities overreacted when they shot him with a Taser and blew up his knapsack.
"I think they all acted like idiots,'' 43-year-old Michael Jansen said of the incident Wednesday, when police evacuated about 12 houses near Post and Gorham roads and diverted traffic from the area for four hours while members of the Westchester County Bomb Squad searched his car and used a water cannon to destroy a knapsack containing batteries, wires and electronic equipment.
Authorities also seized what they described as "canisters, including one containing an unknown liquid.'' Jansen said the "canister'' was a thermos filled with cranberry juice. No explosives were found, and police confirmed yesterday that tests showed the liquid was not dangerous.
"None of this would have happened if they would have asked me a few questions,'' Jansen said during a telephone interview from Westchester Medical Center in Valhalla, where he is being held for psychiatric evaluation. Jansen said he has undergone brain surgery four times since 1999 to remove a tumor and wears the helmet to protect his head.
"I've been stopped by police in northern Westchester and Putnam several times," he said. "They ask me why I'm wearing a helmet, and I show them a form I have that says I've had head injuries. Until now, they've always been polite about it and let me go.''
An FBI spokesman, Agent James Margolin, could not be reached for comment yesterday but said Thursday that the case is closed and no charges will be filed against Jansen. White Plains police would not comment, saying the case belonged to the FBI.
Police said an FBI task force member started following Jansen through White Plains after spotting him on Route 22 wearing the helmet and with a camera mounted on his car's dashboard. The FBI contacted White Plains police for assistance, and Jansen was stopped in Scarsdale.
Jansen said he works as a freelance photographer and was on Route 22 when he noticed he was being followed while he was driving through White Plains.
At that point, he said, he turned on a video camera mounted in his car and taped the entire incident. White Plains police said the tape was seized and is in the custody of the FBI.
"When I got out of the car I thought it was just a traffic stop, but the police started yelling and screaming at me on a speaker and they were pointing all kinds of weapons at me," he said. "I was holding up the paper I have with a picture of my head injuries.''
Police said Jansen was shot with a Taser after he ignored several orders to stop walking toward them. Jansen said the police were about 50 yards away from him and that he couldn't understand them. He said when he did hear them say to get on the ground he didn't want to because he was afraid he might hurt his head. At that point, he was shot with the Taser, he said, and several officers took him to the ground and ripped the helmet from his head.
"Would you pull a person out of a wheelchair to arrest him? I don't think so,'' Jansen said.
Once at White Plains police headquarters, he said, "they treated me well, but they wouldn't let me call a lawyer or make a phone call. They questioned me for about four or five hours. But they acted more normal, and a few of them apologized and said they made a mistake.''
Jansen's mother, Christina Jansen, said police came to the apartment she shares with her son Wednesday afternoon and searched his room.
"They were sent by the FBI, and I think they were embarrassed,'' she said yesterday.
Jansen said he expects to be released from the hospital Monday.
"When I get out the first thing I'm going to do is put my helmet on,'' he said.
dasmi
Member
Good. And give the psych ward the finger on the way out.
duckslayer
Member
- Joined
- Jan 29, 2004
- Messages
- 497
So I suppose since he was not under arrest (even though he was not free to leave) they didn't have to let him call a lawyer? That is a crock.
RevDisk
Member
:banghead:
I swear, common sense... isn't.
thereisnospoon
Member
Response Please?
I want to see the Wagon-Circlers response to this latest developement
I want to see the Wagon-Circlers response to this latest developement
coylh
Member
I so much want a copy of that video!
Sindawe
Member
[cricket]
chchchchirp...
chchchchirp....
[/cricket]
chchchchirp...
chchchchirp....
[/cricket]
Vernal45
member
They will, they are just busy changing the tires on there wagons. Too many flats lately.
Just move along, nothing to see here. Police State business. Move along.
What latest development? We still have'nt heard the cops' version of events. All we know is a guy who musta looked like Artie Shaw during his Laugh In days went whacky enough to win a ticket to the happy camp. Do ya think his version of events might be spun just a tad, as may the cops?
I know a forty year old who lives with mom and wears a helmet, he's "special". Heck, we had one guy who strolled around every day wearing a gas mask, he was a real treat to deal with, too. I'm like everybody else and would love to see the cruisercam tape. Ya dont get stunned and carted off for being playing well with others. But of course the cops'll lie, everybody knows the dude in the helmet is a stable and reliable source whose word must be Gospel.
I know a forty year old who lives with mom and wears a helmet, he's "special". Heck, we had one guy who strolled around every day wearing a gas mask, he was a real treat to deal with, too. I'm like everybody else and would love to see the cruisercam tape. Ya dont get stunned and carted off for being playing well with others. But of course the cops'll lie, everybody knows the dude in the helmet is a stable and reliable source whose word must be Gospel.
Vernal45
member
Seems like we have heard from the POPO. And is smells like something my cat leaves in the litter box.
JohnBT
Member
"I was holding up the paper I have with a picture of my head injuries.''
I had a client who used to do that. He called it his get out of jail free card.
"Police said Jansen was shot with a Taser after he ignored several orders to stop walking toward them." Beats being shot with a gun I suppose.
I'd rather see this film than the new Star Wars film. I wonder how accurate his recollection of the events will be.
John
I had a client who used to do that. He called it his get out of jail free card.
"Police said Jansen was shot with a Taser after he ignored several orders to stop walking toward them." Beats being shot with a gun I suppose.
I'd rather see this film than the new Star Wars film.
I wonder how accurate his recollection of the events will be.John
Michigander
Member
So let me get this straight:
If I wear a helmet when driving an automobile, that is cause to stop me?
If I have a camera on my dash, that is cause to stop me?
Or, if I do have a camera mounted on my dash, I better not drive near a resevoir or nuclear facility, or else it will be cause to stop me?
If I wear a helmet and have a camera on my dash, that is cause to stop me? Or only near a resevoir, nuke plant, etc.?
Is it against the law to have a camera mounted on the dash of my vehicle?
Is it possible to go anywhere or do anything without breaking some law(s) or causing one to be stopped in the United States of America (land of the free) anymore?
If I wear a helmet when driving an automobile, that is cause to stop me?
If I have a camera on my dash, that is cause to stop me?
Or, if I do have a camera mounted on my dash, I better not drive near a resevoir or nuclear facility, or else it will be cause to stop me?
If I wear a helmet and have a camera on my dash, that is cause to stop me? Or only near a resevoir, nuke plant, etc.?
Is it against the law to have a camera mounted on the dash of my vehicle?
Is it possible to go anywhere or do anything without breaking some law(s) or causing one to be stopped in the United States of America (land of the free) anymore?
thorn726
Member
the "canister'' was a thermos filled with cranberry juice
oh my God.
this is UN believable, a TOTAl outrage.
guy couldnt understand police so they taser him.
this whole thing is really not cool at all, a horrible measure of the state of things.
i was really hopngi the guy had some wacky story about being a nutjob or something.
this is just sad, and makes me angry. poor guy has a brain tumor and this is what he gets?
ps- check out my bowling post in armed polite society to see how "secure" the local resevoir is here
oh my God.
this is UN believable, a TOTAl outrage.
guy couldnt understand police so they taser him.
this whole thing is really not cool at all, a horrible measure of the state of things.
i was really hopngi the guy had some wacky story about being a nutjob or something.
this is just sad, and makes me angry. poor guy has a brain tumor and this is what he gets?
ps- check out my bowling post in armed polite society to see how "secure" the local resevoir is here
goalie
Member
Actually, we have. They said no charges would be filed.
There are a whole lot of high school and junior high school pupils that look goofier than this guy....and they are a lot less productive as well. At least this guy had a job....
I'd love to ride out there in full gear with a camera mounted on the handlebars of my motorcycle and a Platypus on my back with some of that suspicious liquid inside. Throw in a Stop & Go tire plugger in the saddle bag and they would think I had a dangerous weapon, especially when the run my license and see I have a CCW....they'd probably detain me for 6 months...just in case.
Now who was saying someone at the scene was a can short of a six pack? I think the wrong individual(s) was implicated as being the can short.
I'd love to ride out there in full gear with a camera mounted on the handlebars of my motorcycle and a Platypus on my back with some of that suspicious liquid inside. Throw in a Stop & Go tire plugger in the saddle bag and they would think I had a dangerous weapon, especially when the run my license and see I have a CCW....they'd probably detain me for 6 months...just in case.
Now who was saying someone at the scene was a can short of a six pack? I think the wrong individual(s) was implicated as being the can short.
Art Eatman
Moderator In Memoriam
I'm deliberately ignoring the right or wrong, the "woulda/coulda/shoulda" stuff:
You better get used to the idea that the world changed on 9/11. The best you can hope for is some sort of apology AFTER somebody over-reacts to what once was merely regarded as behavior that was a bit "different".
Yeah, millions and millions of people are continuing their lives, but they're ready in a heartbeat to go bonkers at something that strikes them as "maybe dangerous" and/or "terrorist". It makes no nevermind what a real terrorist would actually do. The underlying lizard-brain is in fight or flight mode.
The present focus of the entire Establishment is on prevention. As we've discussed here many times, prevention of crime of whatever sort is almost impossible without trampling all over our civil liberties. Still, the focus is on prevention--and it's gonna stay that way for a long time to come.
I'll give odds that it's gonna get worse, particularly if some sort of actual terrorist event does occur.
Art
You better get used to the idea that the world changed on 9/11. The best you can hope for is some sort of apology AFTER somebody over-reacts to what once was merely regarded as behavior that was a bit "different".
Yeah, millions and millions of people are continuing their lives, but they're ready in a heartbeat to go bonkers at something that strikes them as "maybe dangerous" and/or "terrorist". It makes no nevermind what a real terrorist would actually do. The underlying lizard-brain is in fight or flight mode.
The present focus of the entire Establishment is on prevention. As we've discussed here many times, prevention of crime of whatever sort is almost impossible without trampling all over our civil liberties. Still, the focus is on prevention--and it's gonna stay that way for a long time to come.
I'll give odds that it's gonna get worse, particularly if some sort of actual terrorist event does occur.
Art
El Tejon
Member
I predict legal-pad yellow skies over New York.
Advice to po-po: settle and be quick about it!
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