Poll for shooters over 40 years of age

[tarosean]

Over 40, carry a .45ACP as main EDC. Yet has nothing to do with any writings/magazines/etc. All about the fact that it is still thinner than modern guns until you drop down into 380 pocket pistols.

 

[jimbo555]

My first handgun was a colt 22 single action. My first carry gun as an adult was a s&w model 39-2 9mm. I have handguns in 22,380,9mm,45acp and 45colt. My main carry is a kahr cw45. It has for me the right balance of size, capacity, weight, accuracy, and caliber. I feel most comfortable carrying a 45. Just the way I feel.

 

[Grmlin]

I am over 40. I grew up shooting rifle and pistol mainly .22. .38 and .357. The first .45 I fired was in the Marine Corps and could shoot it better than the Beretta 9mm. I will eventually get a .45 1911 just other needs now.

 

[double bogey]

I have never shot a person. but I have shot a bunch of animals. A large hole gets them down quicker than a small hole.
Also, any advancements in hollow point ammunition applies to both calibers.
Not a veteran but I agree with post #39.

Now, I carry 1911's fairly regular, but carry a G23 most of the time.

 

[Skyshot]

I'm 60 and have been a .357 mag fan for most of my life. In the last ten years I have come to love the 1911 45 acp just because of the feel of the gun. It's my primary EDC. I've owned a bunch of different handgun calibers in semiauto and revolvers. My tastes and preferences have evolved over the years and no gun guru or magazine hype or caliber has influenced on what feels right in the hand. For me the handgun is a defensive last ditch option. I never had to shoot in defense of my life, but I've killed enough big game animals to know that a bullet of any caliber may not be as quick a killer as thought or read about or have been told about. Having said that I have confidence in a 230 JHP at 900 + fps being enough to discourage further advancement from an evil doer.

 

[Nom de Forum]

Why am I suspicious? You are arguing with people's opinions, and of course you and I seem to be arguing facts. You seem to remember the 1970's and 1980's differently than I or Walt Sherrill seem to remember them. I'd suspect a pollster would ask a question and let the responders, respond without making an argument for one side or the other.

For example…

Of course you also included this earlier in the thread...

I'll suppose there is some "purpose" to the thread other than simply gathering a collection of people's experiences with either staying with a caliber or changing to another. I would guess you have a conclusion already determined, and are trying to steer the poll responses in a certain direction.

You are over-thinking what the poll question is about. It truly is the simple request for information it openly appears to be. I have made no arguments in support of one answer or the other. In fact I would be fine with nothing other than people who meet the poll criteria just posting they participated in the poll and not giving any explanation for their choice. That may be even more desirable to prevent the thread from getting derailed with a few very interesting comments and mostly mundane comments.

The conversation you and I are having is interesting but not something I am seeking with this thread. We apparently are remembering the history of the 1970’s and 1980’s somewhat differently, but I think we are mostly recalling different parts of the history. I have a larger than average library of publications from that time period. It supports what I have posted about pistol bullets and cartridges. More to the point, I was a 1911 fanatic and member of The Cult of the .45 lead by Jeff Cooper in the 70s and 80s. I remember what talking points I used to argued against anything that was not a 1911 .45ACP. I also remember that it was not until the late 80’s and really the 90’s we started to get both reliably expanding and sufficiently penetrative HPs in SD calibers.

I am not attempting to stir responses to the poll. I am hoping people participate in the poll before reading any posts.

 

[CoalTrain49]

Never paid any attention to mags or authors touting the cartridge. I've never read anything written by Jeff Cooper. Bought my first 45 acp about 5 years ago and it is the only pistol cartridge I shoot now, I have several 45 acp pistols and one revolver. I'm 66.

 

[Sauer Grapes]

I voted the 2nd choice, but never really carried a 45. 38spl use to be my weapon of choice. Now it's 9 and 40.

 

[Tallball]

I will be 50 on Monday and have been shooting handguns since I was 14. I used to read a lot of gun mags as a younger man, but not much anymore.

In the past five years or so I have gotten two 45acp handguns. They are both great and I would trust either for SD.

I didn't vote because at heart I am a 357 or 44 or 38 guy, but I would feel adequately armed with a good 45acp.

PS No offense intended, but Mr Cooper always seemed a bit crazy to me.

 

[Evil-Twin]

Evil-twin,

This type of post makes me question the age and experience of the poster. I strongly suspect your hyperbole ("like an explosion, and an electrocution at the same time.. getting hit with a 9mm is like taking a jolt from a 220 volt electric line.. take the same shot with a 45 and it like getting hit by a jolt of 440 Volts. 220 volts hurt like hell, 440 volts feel like someone hit you in the chest with a 20 lb sledge hammer, before you go unconscious") is an indication of you being very young and/or inexperienced. Regardless of that the "information" you provided is not very relevant to the thread. The thread is not about about terminal ballistic performance and I fear anymore comments like yours will turn it into another stopping power/9 vs .45 goat rope that will get it closed.

__________________
NRA Endowment Member

You quoted me, then proceeded to call me a kid and a liar... this is certainly the low road.

Not something I expected to see in this forum... I'm wondering how you have managed to fit into this form for 7 years.
Bill aka ET

 

[JB357MAG]

I am a giant fan of the 1911!

I am in my 50's and wanted one since I was a kid.

Im also a bit on the thick side and last Dec I have picked up
for me the perfect daily carry gun, an M&P shield in 9mm.

Nearly 1/2 the weight of a 1911.

I do have a Colt Gold Cup National Match and an Auto Ordinance
1911A1.

I trust the 9mm caliber will do what I need, just hope I never have
to use it.

Jimmy

 

[Nuclear]

I'm over 50 (not really sure what that has to do with the question), my first handgun was a 9mm "wonder nine", because that was the current wisdom at the time, a lot of light, fast bullets. Had a crappy trigger and was way too big for what it was. My next handgun was a 40S&W (thanks to the FBI & gun rags) that only held 10 rounds (thanks to the Clinton AWB). It had a slightly better trigger, but the recoil was much worse than the 9mm, or any 45ACP. I then transitioned to a 1911 in 45ACP because I was competing in a gun game. And started conceal carrying a 9mm single stack, because I was finally living in a free state. The 45ACP is now my house gun, because it is still heavier than my concealed carry 9mm. But if I open carry, I sometimes carry the 45ACP. Or a 38 Super, which is superior to the 9mm.

The reality is that a 45 will make a bigger hole, and penetrate soft tissue just as far as a 9mm. You may not get a second shot off, so all things being equal, I'd carry a 45ACP.

So I didn't vote on the poll, as I found it somewhat slanted and without a valid option for me.

 

[mokin]

I'm over 40, grew up shooting, but never carried a .45 for self defense. Since I never carried one I didn't vote in the poll. All the hype in those formative years turned me off. It's too bad because today I think I'd like one.

All about the fact that it is still thinner than modern guns until you drop down into 380 pocket pistols.

Maybe I'll pick one up someday.

 

[jeff-10]

I'm forty so technically not "over" 40 and have been shooting my whole life. First gun was a Marlin Model 60 at 11 and had a Ruger MK 2 the following year. Mainly own and shoot handguns.

Never owned a 45 ACP and never had interest in it. 40 S&W is my favorite, followed by 9mm, then 357, then 10mm and finally 38. It is all I shoot. The 10mm and 357 change places on my favoritism hierarchy but the 40 S&W and 9mm are always the top 2.

 

[entropy]

Actually, back when I started shooting, the Cult of the 125 gr. HP .357 Mag. was in full force, and I was a big believer. My first three handguns were a Trooper MKIII, and then two Pythons. Of course, since I was under 21, I was limited to what my Dad would sell me.
I fell in love with the 1911 when I fired one at 8 years old, also the first time I fired a .357, a Python. I 'got back into' the 1911 while in the Army, then they took mine all away, and gave me a bunch of 9mm's . The Berettas are good guns, and we all shot them more accurately, but I would have preferred the .45's back. After I got out, I bought a Remington-Rand 1911A1, and have owned several different makes of 1911 since then. (Kick myself for selling the Rem.-Rand, young and bills due.... ) Two of my 3 main CCW's are .45 ACP; the other is a S&W Bodyguard 38.

 

[C0untZer0]

Some people come out of the military loving the weapons they used while they were in - I was just the opposite, I grew to hate the M16A1, I could not believe how dirty that rifle could get. The same thing happened with the 45. I actually shot a Singer and asked my platoon sergeant incredulously "The same company that makes sewing machines?" I even shot the 1911 in post competitions, the rules were they came straight out of the arms room with no modifications. They would clank if you tipped them left to right and really no one did that well with them in the competitions. I left the service not thinking very highly of the 1911 either.

I pocket carry a Rohrbaugh R9. IMO, no one has been able to make a reliable pistol as light or compact as the R9 chambered for .45 ACP. And when I purchased my R9, there wasn't a lot of ballistics testing of the 380 AUTO. All of the tests that I saw at the time had 380 bullets stopping short at around 10" of penetration or zipping out the back of 18" blocks of gelatin.

I really didn't migrate from the .45 to the 9mm.

 

[Dr.Rob]

I shoot my 9mm hi-power clone in competitions and it's my go-to handgun. I have shot it a LOT more than my .45's in the past 10 years, so much that I have 3 of them. My first center fire handgun was a 1911 in .45 ACP. I own 4 different 1911's and a .45 ACP revolver.

At 47, I'd still reach for my 9mm first.

 

[tipoc]

During the late 60’s to mid 90’s the hyping of .45ACP superiority over all other common self-defense calibers was at its high point in The Gun Press. I am curious about the number of shooters who as children and adolescents during these years were influenced to choose the .45ACP for self-defense carry but are no longer carrying a .45ACP as their primary SD caliber.

I did not enter anything in the poll because the poll did not cover me, as I mentioned earlier.

Also because the suppositions here are wrong. There is a point to this "poll" (which isn't a poll) and the authors misunderstanding of the history of handgunning for the last few decades enters into it.

The gun press never did hype the "45 acp over all other self-defense calibers". Repeat, they never did that as a whole.

To the extent that they did do it the round was the .357 Magnum that was the "King of the Handgun Rounds".

Jeff Cooper was never an advocate of the "One Shot Stop" theory and never advocated that one round from a .45 would "put a man down" without accurate shooting. There is a un-informed misunderstanding of Cooper's contributions.

Up until the post war period the U.S. was a nation of wheelgunners. That only began to change after the war and it did that slowly. Till the 1980's law enforcement used revolvers overwhelmingly and the 38 Spl. was the round of choice and considered "good enough". Law enforcement, with a few exceptions did not use 1911s or pistols in any caliber till the Illinois State Police adopted a S&W pistol in 9mm.

In general the .357 Magnum was the go to round and the one that the gun press advanced as the king. This began in the 1970s once Super Vel ammo hit the market with jhp ammo of 90 gr., 110 gr. and 125 gr. that actually worked and in 125 gr. could occasionally hit 1400 fps from a 4" barrel of a Model 19 or M27. Law enforcement flocked to it and it was raised as a standard against which to measure the performance of other calibers. It still does that today. (357 Sig anyone?)

The 44 Magnum was immensely popular in the 1970's. More so than the 45 acp. The latter was thought of as a military round suited for the Army or bullseye work but not a good hunting gun or for self defense. (Cooper advocated it, but he was in a minority.)

In the late 1980s and throughout the 1990s Marshall and Sanow advocated the theory of the One Shot Stop (OSS) here too the .357 Magnum with a 125 gr. jhp ruled the roost as the "King of the OSS" with a 98% OSS rating. (They gave some loadings of the 45 acp a 96% but no one paid attention to that). They also praised the 9mm+P+ as the next most useful, before the 45acp and there many followers, well did what followers do, they did it for many years. It's only begun to fade out in the last 2-3 years. (It's being replaced by the "9mm is better than any other defensive round because it's performance is just as good and you can shoot it fast and accurately" crowd who have swum to that piece of flotsam now that OSS has sunk.)

The debate those years was light and fast vs. slow and heavy. The 9mm vs. 45 debate fell into that category.

It's a vague insult to believe that most shooters back in those years choose a gun or a caliber based on what the gun magazines said. That folks were so gullible and easily influenced.

tipoc

 

[Nom de Forum]

Oh Tipoc! I don't have time tonight to post all the corrections to your half-truths and falsities. I do have time to post that the The Poll is indeed a poll. The point of the poll is very simple: a non-scientific attempt to get an idea of the percentage of shooters in the specified sample group who post they are still using a .45 and how many are not. It is my belief the sample group was exposed to more hyping of the .45ACP than preceding and following age groups. I am curious what the long term effect is of that hyping of the .45ACP. Between you and JTQ I don't which has reacted with more unwarranted suspicion and defensiveness of things that are not under attack. What is an outstanding example of demonstrated ignorance of human behavior is this statement you made:

"It's a vague insult to believe that most shooters back in those years choose a gun or a caliber based on what the gun magazines said. That folks were so gullible and easily influenced."

 

[Tony k]

just turned 40. My first experience with pistols was with the M9 in the Air Force. I thought the pistol itself was fine, but I was not impressed with the 9mm ball ammo. Based on that experience and the "hype" surrounding the .45 auto, the first pistols I bought were in 45 auto. My edc has changed from a 1911 to a CW45 to a CM9 over the past few years. The 1911 is too big for my preference. My CW45 is not reliable. My CM9 is reliable and easy to carry.

I've read enough and seen enough ballistics tests to conclude that there isn't enough difference between the two calibers to justify all the hullabaloo. Excellent SD ammo is available for both calibers. I prefer the smaller size of the 9mm for CC.

 

[tipoc]

It is my belief the sample group was exposed to more hyping of the .45ACP than preceding and following age groups.

I already showed you that that was wrong. If any round was the go to round of the gun mags it was the .357 Magnum and the 9mm to a lesser extent as it became the go to round for law enforcement and the military after 1986.

After that the 40 S&W became rapidly the round of choice for law enforcement and again trumped the 45 acp as the dominant choice for many buying new guns.

Note your use of the term "hyping". It implies that if a fella chose to use the 45 acp in 1978 or 1986 or 2006 it was as a result of "hype" and not a well reasoned choice based on what gun they choose to use and what task they set out to accomplish. It also ignores what other guns and calibers they may have chosen as well.

tipoc

 

[R.Ph. 380]

I sometimes carry a 380 just to be onery. I usually carry my XDS 45 3.3" and sometimes a high capacity 9mm. No specific reason, just feel like changing up. Sometimes my Officer sized 1911.

 

[Valkman]

I only carry .45, have never owned nor shot a 9mm handgun. This is not because of someone's writings or internet lore as there was no internet when I started shooting bullseye around '89 (I'll be 60 in Nov.). The only thing I'd ever heard about 9mm was the Miami Shootout but that didn't really matter - Bullseye was shot with a .22 pistol and a 1911 in .45. I loved the .45 right off, shot great with it, and have stuck with it ever since.

Now I may not carry a 1911 but a XD45 with 13rd mags or even a XDs with 7rd mags.

Anyway, to each is own. Maybe 9mm is a good a stopper as .45. I doubt it but really don't care as I will stick to it as that's what I'm good with.

 

[earplug]

I do't get paid to lug around a large firearm anymore. J Frame works for my current use.

 

[1911 guy]

While JHP bullets have been available for years in 9mm, bullets that performed reliably and consistently are a relatively new development. New, of course, being the last several decades.

Back when "the hype" was at it's peak it was justified. When compared to other commonly used rounds it under performed. Not an issue today and I'd feel comfortable going with 9mm if i weren't already heavily invested in .45ACP reloading and pistols.