Poor gun handling in police department. Not cop bashing at all.

[GigaBuist]

Okay, this has happened twice now. In Michigan whenever I buy a pistol I have to bring it in for a "safety inspection" which doesn't gurantee my pistol is safe to fire in the least bit.

Since I moved jobs I now to go the Kent County Sheriff's Department in Grand Rapids, MI to do this. Typically I went to the substation in Gaines before that becuase it was closer to work and within my area of residence.

The first time I come in to get something inspected for my own safety and those around me (or whatever their rationale is) I I have a Keltec P3AT in the case with an empty mag in it. Hey that's just how I store it. I dont't think it's unwise at all. I bring it in and let the feller in charge open the case up. he proceeds to inspec the pistol for safety measures (serial number, barrel length, etc) and sets it back in the case.

Please not that he did not clear the weapon. Magazine in the whole time, never cleared the weapon. Hey I'm pretty sure (99.99%) that I cleared that thing before I put it in my trunk but I'm still nervous when the guy doesn't double check things. Partially because I've been in line behind guys that are getting their weapons checked out. Perhaps "bubba" in front of me forgot to unload his new pistol? Heck if I know -- and heck if this guy knows!

Okay, must be a fluke. Nobody that makes a living handling guns for the local police deparment could possibly be this inept. I'm not expecting a marksman out of the guy but I'd assume they know how to check to verify a weapon is unloaded!

Nope. I go back today with a new pistol and it's the same guy. He lifts it out of the case with a thumb and index finger only like it's a dirty condom. He honestly has NO idea how to handle a fiream. Again, didn't clear the weapon (another semi-auto) and made zero requests for me to do it for him or ask me how to do it. This is absurd.

I'm not cop bashing at all here, but this is just plain nutty. It's not freaking safe! He does seem to keep his finger off the trigger, but he's manhandling the gun for a number of minutes without any desire to clear the gun. Just trusts that the general public will do the right thing I guess. His entire lack of proper grip on the arm when he first meets it (ie: the dirty condom grip) scares the crap out of me. If I ever have to bring a $2,000 rig in front of this guy I'd be scared crapless of him dropping it. Heck even the "cheap" stuff I've hade him handle in this mannter would make me angry if he dropped it!

The other local shop? Wonderful. It's a woman in her mid 40's or so that clears every single weapon in a proper manner put in front of her. 1st order of business. I complimented her on this action after seeing the actions of fellow #1 above. Her response was basically that anybody that didn't clear a weapon upon receiving it was freaking nuts. I agree entirely!

To stand there and watch somebody "safety inspect" my pistol with the slide forward, and magazine in, twice just blows my mind.

 

[mummac]

I'd write a letter or make an anonymous call. You never know, you could save someone's life.

 

[Pilgrim]

A good friend of mine, now deceased, owned and operated a gun shop for fifty years. He had a habit of assuming that guns brought into his shop for repair were unloaded by the customer, and three bullet holes in the walls proving it.

He also handed weapons to customers off the racks for their examination without first clearing them. He took the position that "...it was unloaded when I put it on the rack 'xx' weeks ago. Why would it be loaded?" Needless to say I was pretty uncomfortable when the customer didn't clear the weapon either and started waving it around.

I've come to accept that there is no guarantee anyone can be counted on to observe the "Four Rules". It seems sometimes that the worst offenders are those who through years of experience no longer think themselves capable of a negligent discharge.

Pilgrim

 

[Ivy Mike]

to be fair, the case theat my FN Forty-Nine came in makes picking the gun up rather difficult. The easiest way is to do the "dirty condom" approach. I pinch it by the trigger guard (NOT the trigger) and then slip the rest of my hand around the grip. I always clear my guns before putting them in the case and always check them after removing them.

Some cases are badly designed...not checking every gun, every time is just asking for a new orifice.

 

[whm1974]

I expect that a person who's job is do Safety Inspentions on weapons will check to see if the gun loaded or have the owner clear the weapon in front of him. Nevermind that the REAL propose of this is really resistraition and not safety.

Okay, this has happened twice now. In Michigan whenever I buy a pistol I have to bring it in for a "safety inspection" which doesn't gurantee my pistol is safe to fire in the least bit.

Do you have to do this with all handguns including PPT? What about someone who just moved to Michigan, does he have to bring in every handgun he owns? What is the penity if someone doesn't do this? The law or not I suppose a lot of people in your state don't bother with this.

-Bill

 

[Mixlesplick]

Do you have to do this with all handguns including PPT? What about someone who just moved to Michigan, does he have to bring in every handgun he owns? What is the penity if someone doesn't do this? The law or not I suppose a lot of people in your state don't bother with this.

Someone moving to Michigan has to register all pistols with the local police department within a short period of time. I think it is thirty days. If the pistols aren't registered the least that can happen is confiscation if caught. No pistol can legally be purchased from a gun store or private party without the purchase permit from the police. I think most people comply with this law although there must be stolen handguns or unregistered handguns around just like anywhere else.

As far as the unsafe "safety inspection" I would make a complaint with the sheriff. My friend made a complaint with the chief of a Grand Rapids area police department about the inspectors refusing to register any more pistols the day he went in. (He heard some of them laughing about it out of sight). I don't know if anything came of it but the chief called my friend back personally and was taking a lot of interest in the matter.

 

[MP5]

I'd write a letter or make an anonymous call. You never know, you could save someone's life.

Agreed. Don't just tell people here, tell someone in charge who can hopefully prevent a needless tragedy (and more cries of "get rid of guns!").

He also handed weapons to customers off the racks for their examination without first clearing them.

Scary. Thank goodness the people at the shop/range I normally frequent are religious about checking before handing. It's good for running a safe business, and a good reminder to less scrupulous customers.

 

[carpettbaggerr]

If he keeps his finger off the trigger, it won't go off. And doing nothing may be safer than trying to clear an unfamiliar weapon. How come YOU didn't clear the gun, before handing it over? You know you're suppposed to, right? I don't hand anyone anything without clearing it first.

 

[Tamara]

GigaBuist,

I had a friend, who, if you tried to hand him a weapon with the action closed, would just stand there and stare at it with his hands in his pockets until the person holding it got uncomfortable and asked him why he wasn't taking it.

"Because the action's closed," he'd reply, "It's unsafe to be handing people weapons with the action closed."

Of course, handing them a cased weapon is a mitigating circumstance, and places the onus on them to clear the weapon.


carpetbagger,

If the officer was unsure of how to clear a semiautomatic pistol, the correct response for him would have been to enquire with the owner about the proper procedure, or ask that the owner demonstrate that it was clear and lock the action open, if possible. Ignorance, as they say, is no excuse for breaking a law.

 

[Old Fuff]

Well first of all, the so-called “safety inspection†is a scam. What they are really doing is registering the gun. When the law was written someone in the legislature got worried that registration, as such, might not be Constitutional. Consequently rather then face a court challenge on the issue they made it a phony safety inspection.

Often the clerks or officers that do the inspecting don’t know zip about handguns, and don’t care. All they want too do is get the information they need to fill out a form. In one instance I am familiar with the “inspector†cocked the hammer on a new Smith & Wesson .44 Magnum, and before the gun’s owner could stop him, took a plastic mallet and socked the hammer a solid blow. When the hammer fell he declared the revolver to be unsafe. The owner brought me the gun to be checked out, and for an opinion.

The police department eventually paid for the repairs.

If you live in Michigan, and submit a handgun for inspection, use extreme caution. Presume that the person you are dealing with hasn’t any knowledge about proper procedure and safety rules.

Because they probably don’t.

 

[armoredman]

Good Lord Above, you people put up with this garbage? I safety inspect my own weapon, when I get it, and every time I handle it!

 

[manwithoutahome]

You can tell who the real gun owners are from the "hacks" who think they know how to own guns.

In the gun stores I won't take a gun without the action open. When I close the action to get the feel of the pistol I always open the action before handing it back.

I've seen too many people who just pick up a gun and start waving it around, even worse, pointing it at people and dry firing (and they wonder why I "hit the deck" when it's pointed at me).

You hear about too many "accidents" and it really ticks me off when you read the statement "I thought it was unloaded" or "I didn't know it was loaded". The most important rule to me is that ALL GUNS ARE LOADED. Even if they are unloaded (checked by you) they are still to be treated as if they are loaded.

Wayne

 

[tcsd1236]

You didn't even mention whether the person you dealt with was a uniformed officer. We have plenty of non-sworn staff who deal with the public and have no experience with firearms. Some officers are only familiar with the issued duty weapon, because thats the only firearm they have ever handled.

 

[warrior23]

I know in our Dept if you dont clear the gun before you come in the building you can kiss your license and your life possibly good bye,the gun has to have the slide locked back no mag,cylinder open, no ammo in gun or the case you brought it in with.

 

[Dienekes]

Welcome to the 21st century.

The only cure for stupidity is death.

 

[Jason Demond]

The people at the Barry County Sheriff's office have you make the gun safe, then hand it to them.

 

[ExtremeDooty]

I like the Barry Co Sheriff's office. I've always taken my guns in already in a safe mode usually with a trigger lock.

I recently had to move into Kalamazoo and I'm not sure how the City of Kalamazoo treats people with CPL's. Does anyone know if you can use a PO box for your address on a CPL?

 

[Russ]

Before you shoot it, make sure you wipe the Krispy Creme residue off of it.

When I lived in the PRK there were several occaisions of improper gunhandling by the expert police. One officer shot himself through the hand at the range with his Glock 40. Permanent disability on the taxpayer nickel.

I had a friend who was and is an LA County Sherriff. He used to leave his 686 revolver out in the open where his 3 year old daughter and 8 year old son had easy access to it.

Some say only police should have guns. What a joke.

 

[Standing Wolf]

It's not freaking safe!

Michigan's so-called "safety inspection" has nothing to do with safety and everything to do with registration.

When I lived in Michigan years ago, the brave boys in the blue uniforms made no pretence of inspecting my guns. They just wrote down the make, model, serial number, et cetera, and handed them back to me, usually butt-first, but not always.

One of my Colt Trooper Mark III revolvers was listed as a "35F" caliber gun.

 

[Jim K]

Police are not necessarily more careful with department guns. In one department a car acquired a round "moon roof" when a female officer decided to see how the shotgun worked. They patched the hole on the outside with body putty and moved the Mars bar to cover it up.

Another car in the same department acquired an extra air vent when one of the city's finest (male this time) put a 9mm through the floor pan.

A federal security police officer working in a kiosk with bullet proof glass proved the glass was bullet proof by accidentally firing his Beretta into it while "checking" the gun. The bullet stuck in the glass and the powers that be taped a security poster over the area so the hole and bullet could not be seen from the outside.

I could go on, but that will give you an idea.

Jim

 

[cracked butt]

Just bite your tongue and get in line with the rest of the sheeple, its for the children.

 

[LAK]

One of the best I have heard was that recounted by one of the British contributors in another forum from that side of the pond. During a routine encounter (post range or on the way out there I forget) with two constables, one was handling his now uncased Glock - who absently peered into the muzzle and pulled the trigger

I know of one fatal accident (presumably) that occurred in the late 70s when an Air Force armorer pulled the trigger of a .38 revolver whilst it was pointed at the head of one of his colleagues.

 

[Jim K]

Well, that is why the Brits had to ban handguns. Why some copper might shoot someone with someone else's gun. If no one is allowed to have a gun, the cop can't take it and do damage.

As to Michigan, there was another reason for that safety inspection. I don't know if things have changed, but I have it on pretty good authority that not too long ago, all guns belonging to black people were unsafe and had to be confiscated. Of course, that was the reason for the law in the first place. No racial discrimination here, just "concern for the public safety".

I note that none of the civil rights groups ever protests police profiling when it involves firearms licenses.

Jim

 

[LaVere]

Safety inspection Certificate Michigan

In the Green Card (as it is Called) It says " A Cusory inspection has been made of this pistol presented. A check for operational or mechanical defect has not been made of this pistol. "

While it is called Safety it is only for state registeration. The card does not have to be carried with you.


Gordon

 

[GigaBuist]

While it is called Safety it is only for state registeration. The card does not have to be carried with you.

Try telling your average cop that. This story was related to me by a fellow shooter. It's true, heard it from two of the people involved.

3 guys, 12 handguns, sittin on the back deck of a house shooting safely into a gorge. Given the angle (been there and shot there myself) it's effectively like having a 60 foot high backdrop of solid earth about 200 yards long. They all reload, so ammo is cheap for them, and they were all set for one heck of a good time.

Well, after a while four police cars show up (this town is small -- must have been county boys since the town didn't even have a full time cop of their own) -- The 3 guys are walking back from their targets up to the deck when they arrived. They've all got holstered sidearms on them. They're smart and non-confrontational. They put their hands in the air/kept 'em away from the guns.

Meanwhile the police are on the back deck kicking brass out of the way. It was like leaves in the fall he says. Apparently some neighbors (must have been at leat a half mile away) had called in. A number of them. They're totally legal to be shooting like this though. Upon seeing the plethora of guns laying on the tables they said, "Better have your green cards." Sure enough, they did (they know the law, but they know the average cop doesn't know the law) -- and the officers checked all the serial numbers.

Happened once to me while I was there too. DNR guy shows up to make sure we weren't shooting any critters. Checked the green cards. Picked my Glock 21 and said, "Dang that light!" Offered to let him shoot it but he declined.

Consequently, all my green cards are kept in my wallet.