Poor mans 6-PPC?

[Rupestris]

A friend of mine has a 6mm PPC that is an absolute joy to shoot. Short action, light recoil, unbelievable accuracy.

I’ve been looking for something similar but in an off-the-shelf round. I don’t reload and don’t get many opportunities to get to the rifle range. I’d like something similar in ballistics and recoil. I’d also like to keep whatever I go with above .22cal so that it can also be used for Deer here in Michigan.

So, after digging through web sites I have found that the .243 Win is about as close as I’m going to get in a store bought rifle/ammo on my tight budget.

For my questions:

What are the disadvantages of the long action?

Will a typical sporting rifle in .243 shoot the lightweight 55 to 70-grain offerings as well as it would the 100gr ammo? (I keep hearing rate of twist issues when discussing AR's.)

Is there another round out there that I am overlooking with ballistics similar to the following:

Larger than .22 – Smaller than .30
Ammo offerings in 60 to 80-grains
Velocity of 2900 to 3400fps
Light recoil (compared to .308, .30-06, etc)

I’m not looking for info on barrel length, downrange energy, or cost yet. Right now I’m just trying to find out if there is something else I should consider.

The rifle will be used for target shooting @ 100 & 200 yards for now (not competition), possible varmint, and deer hunting.

Thanks,
Chris

 

[Taurus 617 CCW]

Average twist rage for the .243/6mm is a 1 in 10. That means the bullet will make a complete rotation for every ten inches travelled. 1 in 10 twist rate is very versatile. You can shoot a bullet as light as 50-55 grains, all the way up to a 100 grain bullet. The most accurate bullets will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 55-80 grains for that twist rate. If you had a higher rate of twist, say a 1 in 9 or even a 1 in 8 you could support bullets that surpassed 100 grains but you would lose the lighter ones. The problem with shooting bullets that are too heavy for a particular twist rate is that they will have a tendency to "keyhole" at mid distances. (See attached) I believe that you chose a fine caliber for varmint and hunting purposes. With 6mm as a deer cartridge, shot placement will be more important because it doesn't have the sectional density that the 7mm-30 calibers offer but it's still a winner.

 

[Smokey Joe]

Rah, rah, .243!

Yep, Rupestris, you picked a winner, IMHO. .243Win is inherently accurate, fine varmint gun, xlnt for killing targets, and works well for deer. For Bambi, I'd use a 100 grain, high-grade bullet like a Nosler Partition or Accubond, or Barnes Triple Shock, and you have less room for error in shot placement.

Negligible recoil, works in a short action, doesn't eat a lot of powder if you reload. Mine is a Ruger Model 77 Mk II Target--a trifle heavy but not a killer, and hits what I point it at. (Ruger uses a funny-looking metal finish on these; don't let it put you off.)

Dandy "starter" cartridge for kids, or anyone on the small and slight-of-build side, and some people never bother to go any further--they are satisfied. Can use a light rifle and not be punished by the recoil.

To respond to yr question abt long action disadvantages: You have a longer back-and-forth bolt stroke, and the longer action is a trifle less stiff, all else being equal, than a short-action rifle, which doesn't help accuracy. That said, us "ordinary" shooters are never going to notice the stiffness difference. The short action takes a little less material, so is a trifle cheaper to manufacture, but there is so little difference really that some makers price the short and long action in a given model, the same.

On the plus side, the long action can handle a longer cartridge, which (before the advent of the short-and-fat rounds) meant more powder capacity and more velocity for a given weight bullet. The extreme of this is the magnum-length action, which is even longer, and handles such whompers as the .300 H&H magunm and up. Long action rifles can be built with a heavier action (more metal) to overcome the stiffness question.

So, short action, long action, magnum action--don't let that be the deciding factor in your choice of a particular rifle or cartridge.

But to get back to yr original question, YES! Get yourself a good .243Win and enjoy it!

 

[cmb3366]

It's going to be impossible to come close to that level of accuracy in a factory gun, even more so with factory ammo, even more so in a deer caliber . Currently the hot guns in benchrest are custom action guns, and the 30Br is gaining massive ground in score. What this means for the average consumer is that there are alot of old 6ppc rifles built on remington 700's, 722's and 40-X's, floating around for sale at good prices ($500-$900). I bought an old Heavy-Varmint worked remington 722 with a shot out Hart Barrel (still goups in the high 2's, low 3's ) in an old school aluminum stock with a 2oz shillen trigger and BSA36X for $600 a few years ago. Its outdated for BR, but a ton of fun for "plinking" and winning turkey shoots (they wont let me shoot it at the local one any more ). Anyhow, the guns are not that far out of reach. Now for ammunition, you can buy brass made for your chamber for $2 a piece (if you dont want to form your own), and reloading with hand-dies is very simple, and the whole hand dies setup can be bought for around $250. Why buy an immitation when you can get the real thing?

Some sites to look at:

http://www.benchrest.com/cgi-bin/cl...nes&category=Centerfire+Rifles&query=category

http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=348661

http://www.sinclairintl.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?category=search&item=KIT4&type=store

 

[Rupestris]

Thanks for the replies.

Why buy an immitation when you can get the real thing?

Time and money are the big restraints. I don't get to shoot rifles from a bench too often. I'd like to start with something that has the potential to shoot 1moa (or better), light recoil, and something that is available in factory loads (lighter if possible).
Kind of a beginner BR rifle if you will.

Yes, I do have an underlying lust for a 6mm PPC, but it'll have to wait 'til I can swing it.

The deepest range available to me now is 200yds. Buying a BR rifle capable of that type of accuracy and limiting it to 200 yards would almost be a sin. Probably a bit boring as well.

 

[Buzztail]

sounds like you need a 6mmBR, or real close to it.
Do some reading here 6mmBR.com
I'm sure you'll find something to fit your needs. My Savage action, 14tw Lothar-Walther barrel, SSS trigger etc.... will shoot .2s with handloading, and will put the factory Lapua 77s into the .3s.......for under a grand

 

[esldude]

Buzztail,

Is 6mm BR available off the shelf or hand load only?

 

[Jim Watson]

Let me suggest something radical. You will not be happy target shooting with a deer rifle after shooting a real target rifle. So get a NICE .22 lr. Apply cmb3366's advice, a secondhand .22 target rifle will have a lot of miles left. It will shoot MOA at 100 yards, you just stock up on the ammo that turns out the most accurate and go shooting. If you REALLY are going deer hunting, get an inexpensive rifle, sight it in, practice with it from realistic field positions, etc, etc, but do your serious shooting with the .22. I know a lot of people who have rediscovered the .22 and realize they can go shooting without getting kicked and without spending big bucks for ammunition or time at the reloading bench.

 

[Buzztail]

Buzztail,

Is 6mm BR available off the shelf or hand load only?

6mmBR is available factory loaded in three weights from Lapua- 77gr, 90gr, and 105gr. Graf & Sons keep it in stock here .You'll find that most guns will easily shoot one under a half inch, with many going to a quarter with it. I'll add that it's NOT hunting ammo, and not suited for taking large game. I load 6br with a lee hand press at the range, so it's cheap and easy to set up to reload. 6br is one of the easiest rounds to load for out there. cci primer, some Varget, and the pill of your choosing- you'd be hard pressed to load an inaccurate round for it.

 

[esldude]

Didn't realize there was factory ammo. Nothing against hand loading. Just one of those things I know I never get around to doing. Darn it Buzztail, now I might need another rifle suddenly. There are worse problems to have. I bet a Cooper 6mm BR would shoot real good. If only I had the funds......

 

[Buzztail]

I have to warn you, a real quarter inch rifle will send you home with your hat in your hand at first:banghead:
It feels good to have a gun that I KNOW I can not outshoot.
If you wind up with a used gun vthat already has loading data, it's not hard to get someone to load for you.

 

[pete f]

A good buddy was a traveling bank rep in montana and the dakotas for years. He always carried a XP100 in 7 BR in the car and would use it for those ops when he had a morning or afternoon free. He spent an awful lot of time popping coyotes road side prairie dogs, and other some such things. He and I then built a xp100 based rifle in 6 BR. That rifle was a joy. we found it remarkably willing to shoot good with what ever we packed it with, the bulk packed 6mm 70 or 75 gr. TNT speers were easliy 1/2 inch loads and would just explode what ever they hit, and cost next to nothing something like 96.00 per 1000. even the bulk remingtons worked for 3/4 inch at like 60.00 per 1000. stingy on the powder they work great. I have a 243 rem 788 that needs a new barrel and am thinking about making that into a 6 BR or a 6.5 BR.

 

[BigFatKen]

bulk bullets

I did not believe you could get bullets for a penny until I saw for myself and sure enough, Cabelas has them here for about 1.3 cents.

 

[Buzztail]

penny bullets shoot like they cost a penny. Don't do a 6br, or a 6ppc that sort of injustice.
try these:
Berger
Fowler
Lapua
Clinch River
That'll get you a good start. At the least you'd want to use something higher quality than Remington bulk bullets or you'll never get to use the advantage of the round.
I'm not saying that you have to spend a fortune to reload 6br, but you should not try to load it for $.25 per round either.
I load 55gr blitzkings over Varget with a cci 450 primer and Lapua brass. Cheap, and a boat load of velocity. I can load ~200 rounds per pound of powder.