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Popular False rumors about war

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by brigadier, Aug 17, 2008.

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  1. brigadier

    brigadier Member

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    Here is a thread for false rumors about war.


    * The Handgun is strictly an offensive weapon.

    If this were true, then police officers would leave their handgun in the glove compartment and in stead shoulder their AR-15 or shotgun when they pull you over. The whole pint in a handgun is that they are small and light weight weapons that can be drawn and fired at close range with reasonable accuracy. These are features that are most valuable in RESPONSE to an attack. There ARE some handguns that are made for very specific offensive purposes such as hunting or kicking in doors, but they are specialized weapons that are highly limited in numbers.

    * War heros usually make good national leaders.

    Though war heros tend to make either very good or very bad national leaders, they usually make bad ones. The reasons vary but may include these factors:
    * Warriors are exposed to massive killing and often brutality which can have negative affects on their ability to have respect for life.
    * Warriors, particularly the ones who become heros, tend to have a very strong sense of conviction, which may serve good or bad purposes.
    * The battlefield is full of harmful and bad feelings that can also hurt someones regard for life.

    In modern America, we often strive for a leader who is a fearless warrior as if it's a rare commodity while the rest of the world has seen almost nothing but that throughout history and is sick and tired of it. Again, there ARE good leaders who were once war heros, and the ones who become leaders tend to become unusually good leaders (George Washington for instance) but these guys get their mystic reputation partially because of their scarcity.
    Below is a list of war heros who became national leaders AND had a major impact on the world. It's a random list containing good, bad and in between, but you will notice that the vast majority of them were not only bads leaders, they were outright monsters.

    George Washington, Dwight D. Eisenhower, John F. Kennedy, Adaulph Hitler, Janos Hunyadi, Nikita Khrushchev, Istvan III of Moldavia (Stephan the Great) Vladislav III of Wallachia (Vlad the Impaler), Edward I of England (Edward the Longshanks) Julius Cesar, Harold Hardrata, Temujin of Mongolia (Genghis Kahn), and the list goes on and on.


    * The 20th century would have been allot better had nuclear weapons NOT been invented.


    The exact opposite is true. Here are some things that almost definitely would have happened had nuclear weapons NOT been invented:

    * The war with Japan might have gone on for a few more years in which possibly hundreds of thousands of Americans would have perished, along with as many as two thirds of the entire Japanese population.

    * The United States and the Soviet Union would have gone to war.

    * Our Energy problems would have been much worse.

    * We'd be spending a fortune on our Aircraft Carriers.

    * Nations would be settling their differences to this day the way they did before and during WW II and Who knows who else might have tried their luck with us.

    To this day, there have only been 2 nuclear strikes against any country, and that was Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Nuclear weapons have demonstrated to the world a level of destructive and killing power that no one wants to face. Now that many nations around the world have them, nations are forced to settle their differences in ways that do not provoke the use of such weapons. One good example that I already mentioned, The USSR wouldn't have been very restraint about going to war with the US if they didn't fear American ICBMs, and there is a possibility that the US wouldn't have worked as hard as we did to settle things peacefully of the Soviet Union didn't have ICBMs as well.

    * The adoption of the Beretta M-9 was the first time the US incorporated foreign weapons in to our military.

    Here is a list of just a few foreign weapons that we were using BEFORE the Beretta M-9 came in to service. Yes, some were made in the US, but I noticed that my Beretta has: "Made in USA" stamped on the slide:

    * V-8 Harrier (British)
    * DHC-4 Caribou (Canada)
    * B-57 Canberra (British)
    * M-72 LAW (Norway)
    * Beretta M-12 (Italy)
    * Walther MP (German)
    * STEN (British)

    * The B-2 is the first American aircraft that can carry and fire Nuclear Weapons.

    A common rumor despite the fact that even amateurs in military aircraft no is not true. Here are just a few aircraft that everyone and their grandma knows about that can carry AND fire nukes:

    * B-1 Lancer
    * F-14 Tomcat
    * B-52 Stratafortress
    * XB-70

    That's just well known American aircraft. That's not ALL American aircraft that carried nukes. To broaden it further, don't think for a minute that the Soviet Union never made any aircraft that could carry and fire nukes.

    * Only America and the UK have ever made stealth aircraft.

    Technically, the Russian S-37A is a stealth aircraft.


    * The SR-71 is the fastest non-secret aircraft in the world.


    It's the fastest "non secret" JET POWERED aircraft in the world. The X-15 for instance was around before the SR-71 and was almost twice as fast, moving at Mach 6.7! The Challenger space shuttle was moving at around 18,000mph (in the Mach 20s) when it blew up. Today we can get stuff moving at much faster speeds, though we generally choose not to for lack of purpose.

    * The F-14 cannot go as fast as the SR-71 because it's not built strong enough to handle the speed.

    Close but no cigar. While it MAY or may not be tough enough to handle the speed, the real primary reason it for it's slower speed is the weight and shape of the aircraft. The sheer capabilities of the F-14s engine are not as significant as they sound. Many fighter jets come with engines that will outrun an SR-71 if put in the right torso. The SR-71s own engines will outrun the SR-71 if put in the right torso.

    * Special computer guided anti-tank, anti-aircraft weapons cost millions each because of all the extreme high quality mechanics and state-of-the-art computer technology in them.

    Not true. Other then maybe some of the destructive materials in the warhead, they don't have anything in them that is any more spectacular then stuff you can buy at Wal Mart or your local outdoor sporting goods store.
    The high price is because of the cost of development VS how many are to ever be made. When the Military orders them, they usually order everything that is to ever be made all at once. If it costs $70 Million to design, develop and TEST (remember that you are doing major $ in damage testing these things) and the military only orders 100 of them, then then you can bet your bottom dollar that they would have to go for close to, if not over a million dollars each. The price per unit wouldn't be as high if the military ordered 1000, though the military would still be spending more money which is why they tend to go with higher price, smaller quantity with specialized equipment like that.


    * The Harriers and Raptors are the only plains that can take-off and land on aircraft carriers without assistance.


    The Russian SU-27 and American C-130 can take-of AND land on the deck of an aircraft carrier without assistance.

    * It's against the Geneva convention for the military to use Hollow points.


    It's against the Hague convention of 1899 to use hollow points and is arguably no longer in affect, though military forces tend to avoid using hollow points for tactical reasons.

    * The far right started WW II.

    WW II was started by the Axis and it is universally known that the Axis were National Socialists (the far left) as they have repeatedly admitted in their own words. The far right social motto is: "If you're not bothering anyone, then whatever you do is your business." Can you even imagine Hitler and Mussolini thinking or talking like that?

    * Flamethrowers were never used until WW II.

    Conventional flame throwers as we think of them, were first incorporated by the Byzantine Empire around the time of it's birth. They were a large role of paper, leather or other type of material that was filled with flammable material. They were very large and used primarily for naval combat. The popular 4th of July firework: "Roman Candle" is named after them.

    * The USS Nimitz is the largest aircraft carrier in the world.

    The Nimitz class carriers are the largest group of carriers in the world, but when it comes to the largest individual aircraft carrier, the USS Enterprise still holds the gold.

    * The DKM Bismark was the largest and most heavily armed battleship ever made.

    There may have been a battleship named after your state that was both larger and more heavily armed then the Bismark. Even so, that title doesn't belong to any American or German ship. The largest and most heavily armed and armored battleship ever completed was the Japanese IJN Yamato, which used 18 inch main guns and had a keel of similar size to Forestall class AIRCRAFT CARRIERS! The IJN Yamato was twice the size of the DKM Bismark and comparably more armed.

    * The Russian revolution of 1917 did not happen in a city called: Petrograd. Petrograd was a made up city for the Rasputin and Anastasia story. You won't find a "Petrograd" anywhere on a map of Russia.

    People who say this do so out of ignorance of the Russian language. Since most Americans don't understand Russian, this is understandable. While we usually use Russian names to refer to Russian cities, Petrograd is a common exception. "grad" is put at the end of a name in Russian to establish the name as that of a city or place. "Petro" is the Russian name for "Peter." You will sometimes here Russians refer to it as: "San Petrograd" in which they borrow the word "San" (Saint) from other languages since their is no Russian word for Saint.
    So, translated to English, "San Petrograd" means: "St. Petersburg."
    Again, Americans usually use Russian names to refer to Russian cities, which would probably give you just as much confusion if you heard the name in English. A couple examples:

    Visburg (Visgrad)
    Stalinsburg (Stalingrad)
     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2008
  2. Crunker1337

    Crunker1337 Member

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    A really good read, IMO.
    For the first entry, I might note that the only offensive handgun, meaning, a handgun purpose-built for offensive combat, that I'm aware of is the HK Mark 23. All others are, to my knowledge, sidearms or personal-defense weapons.
     
  3. brigadier

    brigadier Member

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    Same here. The reason I mentioned "offensive" handguns as multiple makes and models is because it includes hunting handguns (like Thompson single shot pistols for instance) as well. I grouped them because there may be an offensive handgun besides the MARK 23 that I don't know of. In other words, I am keeping from saying something that's untrue.
     
  4. divemedic

    divemedic Member

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    Leaders:

    You forgot Andrew Jackson, US Grant, Theodore Roosevelt

    Nuclear Capable Aircraft:

    B-29 Liberator
    B- 36 Peacemaker
    B-47 Stratojet
    B-50 Superfortress
    B-58 Hustler
    A-6 Intruder
    S-3 Viking
    P-3 Orion
    F/A-18 Hornet
    F-16 Fighting Falcon
    FB-111
    H-3 Sea King Helicopter
    Mig 27
    Tu-95 Bear
    Tu-16 Badger
    Tu-22 Blinder
    Tu-22M Backfire
     
  5. ranger335v

    ranger335v Member

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    "To this day, there have only been 2 nuclear strikes against any country, and that was Hiroshima and Nagasaki."

    I think it's interesting that all the bleeding hearts worry about deaths by nuclear weapons and have little concern for deaths by other means. The bombing of Toyko alone had already cost them more lives than were lost to nukes! Even the Japs agree that the total death toll FOR THEM would have been much greater if the war had continued as it was going at the time.

    Of course, the bombs saved not only a couple or three million Japs but many more Allies too, there were more nations involved than just us, you know. But our whiners have ONLY experssed concerned about the Japs!

    Without the bombs, a large part of Japan would have been taken over by the USSR, much to Japan's detriment and the rest of the world's.

    Ah, well, the full depths of our liberal's ignorance is yet to be determined!
     
  6. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Yes, a really good read if you can get by the errors and misrepresentations.

    Okay, I am at a loss. Popular rumors? Honestly, I have only heard of one of them.

    War rumors? Many of these are simply technical rumors, not war rumors. Others are simply opinions, not facts.

    Of the 'corrected' information presented, some of what I checked is in error as well. So the rumors are being replaced with, well, rumors.

    The USS Enterprise is the largest aircraft carrier ever? No. It is the longest, but the Nimitz class have a much larger displacement.

    The C130 cannot takeoff from any of our aircraft carriers unassisted. The C130 requires some 1500 feet minimum takeoff distance and the flightdecks on US carriers aren't more than about 1100 feet. In order to takeoff, the C130 requires the carrier to be in motion, ideally into the wind, and a minimal loading. Only then is it taking off going to happen without JATO or catapults. Harriers and Raptors can takeoff from the flight deck of a stationary carrier at anchor or in dock.

    Whether or not we would have been better off without nuclear weapons is an opinion, not a fact, and as such, a rumor.

    I really liked the one about war heroes usually making good leaders and then your list of war hero leaders that were good, bad, and monsters. Here, you have used a play on words. It isn't that war heroes make morally good leaders, but that war heroes have to skills to lead well. Hitler was a fine leader, a monster, but he really did some amazing things from a military perspective as a leader.

     
  7. Schutzen

    Schutzen Member

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    Very interesting, but you missed on more than a few.

    The M9 Berretta was not the first foreign made/designed weapon in the US arsenal.

    I would have started with the Brown Bess Musket issued to the Continental Army.
     
  8. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    Also the Douglas AD4/A1E Skyraider was nuclear capable. It carried a single nuke under the belly and the launch involved a half loop (Immelman turn).

    As the aircraft reached vertical a system would "toss" the bomb away from the aircraft as the pilot continued his half loop. The pilot would roll out from inverted at the top half of the loop and fly the opposite direction hoping that he'd get far enough away to avoid the blast.

    Never actually used, the system was however tested and approved.
     
  9. Drgong

    Drgong Member

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    [​IMG]

    Indeed, this plane, one of the most useful planes in its era (Including Veitnam) had a nuclear launch abilty... not that I wanted to be the pilot ;)
     
  10. TexasRifleman

    TexasRifleman Moderator Emeritus

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    I have lots of hours in one though it was doing the air show circuit, not with someone shooting at me thank Goodness.

    I have the flight manual for the nuke launch maneuvers. Quite a bizarre idea.
     
  11. brigadier

    brigadier Member

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    The Nimitz class has a SLIGHTLY larger displacement because they are carrying a little more weight (mostly equipment) and have larger keels at the water.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjNyQvhsQE8&feature=related

    http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/q0097.shtml

    In a sense you could say you are right, though the base of this is the available evidence, and the evidence suggests what I said.

    I don't fully get what you are saying but it sounds like you missed it.

    Yes. And how does that at all contradict what I said?
     
  12. dalepres

    dalepres Member

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    I've never heard almost all of those "rumors". Those might be trick questions that, if asked of someone graduating their GED class with honors, you might get some of the answers that you provided or selections on a multiple choice question for same GED with honors grad, but otherwise, I don't think those are popular rumors at all.

    Good point. And the SR-71 is a lot faster than the OP seems to think. For decades, any time the Russians came close to beating the speed of the SR-71, the US Government simply declassified a higher actual number for the SR-71. When I was in the Navy, we had a fly over from a SR-71 as it was coming out of Soviet airspace. Believe me, the SR-71 could fly faster than you think it could fly.
     
  13. Navy joe

    Navy joe Member

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    I think at the height of the cold war anything was nuke capable. As mentioned the A-1 and A-4 were. Here's a fun one. One day I was working on our antiquated H-3 helicopters, UH-3s that had formerly been SH-3s. I wanted to write a gripe on a small cockpit box and didn't know what it was. After much research I discovered it to be the control box for a nuclear weapon carried on the pilot's hardpoint, as in right below his window. SH-3 nuke bomber! Fun mission!
     
  14. Harve Curry

    Harve Curry Member

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    Add the French LeMAt revolver, Enfield rifled muskets, some artillery pieces. Actually quite a few weapons from the 19th century, I cannot name without looking up in some books.
     
  15. bcp

    bcp Member

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    The space shuttle reaches that speed as a glider.

    :D:D:D
     
  16. Picard

    Picard Member

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    Ah, she was a fine ship.

    Sorry, but I had to say it, with my name and all...
     
  17. SDC

    SDC Member

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    For small arms alone, you can add things like the Benet-Mercie machine rifle (a light machine gun issued to the cavalry in the early 1900s), the Vickers 11mm "balloon gun", and even the current-issue M240 and M249 machine guns.
     
  18. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    Right, your claim that Nimitz was the LARGEST is in error. It is the LONGEST, but not the LARGEST.

     
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2008
  19. jdh

    jdh Member

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    Add the U2 to carrier capable aircraft. Down near the bottom of the second link in brigadier's post is a link to the U2 carrier test.

    AND, the real top speed of the SR-71 is still classified. We may never know how fast the sucker can go.
     
  20. Drgong

    Drgong Member

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    the SR-71 was SUPERFAST...

    The Mig-25 was one of the fastest jets the russians ever made, and the syrans used theres for observations as for a long time Israel didn't have anything fast enough to shoot down a Mig-25, and the SR-71 makes the mig-25 look like a snail...
     
  21. BruceRDucer

    BruceRDucer Member

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    Hey Brigadier,

    I didn't WANT to read all that; but I couldn't stop either! LOL:D
     
  22. Lady with a Gun

    Lady with a Gun Member

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    What I remember, as a quotes about handguns:

    1. A handgun is what you use, when you don't have time to get a rifle or a shotgun.

    2. Only a fool uses a handgun, when he/she could be using a rifle or a shotgun. Rifles have much longer effective range. Shotguns are much faster and more positive for taking down close quarters targets.
     
  23. Tommygunn

    Tommygunn Member

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    As for nuclear capable aircraft, there either is, or used to be (it's pretty old in any case) a "Genie" rocket that could be launched from a variety of fighter/interceptor jets. It was a "dumb" rocket, IIRC, and just headed straight toward a preprogrammed point.
    I have never heard the B-2 being refered to as the first American aircraft that could fire nuclear weapons. It may be out there ... but I just never heard it.
     
  24. Wes Janson

    Wes Janson Member

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    Hell, there were nuclear-equipped Jeeps, so I'd say most anything capable of locomotion was nuclear-capable at that point in time.

    No "may or may not" about it-the F-14 wouldn't stand a chance at Mach 3+. Read up on the design history of the RS-71, and the material developments necessary just to keep the thing from falling apart in midair.
     
  25. redbone

    redbone Member

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    My take is that it's pretty much all BS.
     
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