Possible abduction attempt ...?
- Thread starter TallPine
- Start date
- Status
TallPine
Member
No further incidents, but we are being VERY careful.
It's getting down to about 10 below every night (and only about 10 above in the daytime) so I doubt any evildoers would want to lurk around out there for very long. The morning of 12-15-04 (when the incident occured) was unseasonably warm, about 45 F even at 6am. The slimey neighbor appears to be gone for the holidays/winter (?) and the pothead artist from down the road a couple miles has been coming in and out to check on his place (water plants or whatever ...?).
Still, I'm not sure if the neighbor had anything directly to do with this - it might have been one of his friends that slipped up here even after he left. Or he/they all might have been on their way out of state and trying to grab some entertainment on the way.
(the other sick thing that bothers me is that they might have, or will, use the neighbor's place as a hideaway for someone they might have nabbed somewhere else
)I'm still going out first in the morning with a light and the dogs (armed of course), and either going outside with the gals or watching from the windows when they are outside. The old black mutt has figured things out and goes out with my wife when she feeds her rabbits - the dog stands around and watches the whole time.
I put a couple "No Tresspassing" signs down along the neighbor's driveway just for good measure. Maybe that will be a "sign" that we are aware of what's going on ...
I'll let you all know if there are any further incidents, or better yet, if I catch any "varmits" in the yard. I would just love for our Belgian Malinois to get ahold of some creep
... he would probably be begging me to shoot him, just for some relief Bob R
Member
I am glad to hear that things seem to be better, but now
Where would this be? I am living up by Glacier Park right now, but looking for some property within 4-5 hours driving distance of there to buy. I really, really, prefer the rugged stuff, I am not much of a flatlander.
PM me if you want.
thanks
bob
Where would this be? I am living up by Glacier Park right now, but looking for some property within 4-5 hours driving distance of there to buy. I really, really, prefer the rugged stuff, I am not much of a flatlander.
PM me if you want.
thanks
bob
Preacherman
Member
For those who've suggested air horns: they certainly do have their uses...
TallPine
Member
Well, a small vehicle came in last evening about 8pm, so the neighbor might be back home (he drives a Subaru Forester)
Weather has warmed up a little too, so things might be "warming up"
I was very careful checking outside this morning - both big dogs out ahead of me and me carrying the AK with safety off.
Weather has warmed up a little too, so things might be "warming up"
I was very careful checking outside this morning - both big dogs out ahead of me and me carrying the AK with safety off.
aguyindallas
Member
I propose walking around in plain daylight, darkness or whenever you or the kids walk outside with a gun. Maybe this creep will see that the people that live here are armed and decide its not worth the trouble. You live in the country, so if anyone is close enough to see you with a gun, they probably dont belong there anyway. (Not that its not ok to walk on your on place armed). In fact, I would get the family together for a little on property range time so everyone is up to speed and hopefully the creep will hear all the shooting and beat the streets.
Good Luck, I would be just as fired up as you were if I thought some whack job was looking at my girls!
My parents live on the Mexican/Arizona border, so they see people on their place all the time. Guns are close, however, these people are generally harmless. They just want a drink from the hose and keep moving. Mom has the border patrol on speed dial.
Good Luck, I would be just as fired up as you were if I thought some whack job was looking at my girls!
My parents live on the Mexican/Arizona border, so they see people on their place all the time. Guns are close, however, these people are generally harmless. They just want a drink from the hose and keep moving. Mom has the border patrol on speed dial.
standingbear
Member
get some motion or infra red activated lighting and place it up high enough that someone cant just unscrew the bulbs.they arent expensive and are very easy to connect if you have some electrical know-how.
other options; get a light and run an automatic opener to the switch,you can turn on the light from the safty of your home or car.move the hiding places and shed some light on them.the game camera is an ex idea,itll only operate when something passes in frot of the sensor and can save the snapshot for later use,just hide it where it cant be seen or tampered with.add some new signs that show your intent like,no tresspassing or something to that effect.itll show that you are now monitoring the area.lots you can do to make snooping or whatever an risky attempt in the persons mind.
other options; get a light and run an automatic opener to the switch,you can turn on the light from the safty of your home or car.move the hiding places and shed some light on them.the game camera is an ex idea,itll only operate when something passes in frot of the sensor and can save the snapshot for later use,just hide it where it cant be seen or tampered with.add some new signs that show your intent like,no tresspassing or something to that effect.itll show that you are now monitoring the area.lots you can do to make snooping or whatever an risky attempt in the persons mind.
thorn726
Member
hey you know you could try the old Ghetto solution, but in Montana it probably wont do much good?, every one is armed ? or no?
- do these folks know you are armed??????
do some MAJOR target practice where they might hear it?
most people stay away from houses that go BanG.
- do these folks know you are armed??????
do some MAJOR target practice where they might hear it?
most people stay away from houses that go BanG.
TallPine
Member
thorn: oh yeah, the neighbor knows very well I am armed (practically everyone up here is) because I have a shooting range in my "backyard" and I killed his dog last summer because it was coming onto our property and killing our cats. I actaully thought the latter was a good thing because if I am that protective of my cats, then imagine how I am about my daughters ...
I am convinced in my own mind that when the little dog alerted and my daughter went back to the house, whoever was out there expected daddy to be coming out with a gun shortly, and that is why they vamoosed.
Yeah, I did put up some no trespassing signs right along his driveway easement, just for "effect".
As far as shooting trespassers, the general rule in Montana (not the law) is that you might very well get shot trespassing on someone's land - might not be a justified shoot but that doesn't matter much to the dead person.
I'm not really excited about spending a bunch of money on fixed lights and cameras, etc. For one thing, there is just too much country to cover: 40 acres total, and about 2-3 acres of "yard" that is "developed" and/or used daily. I think going out and checking the area myself is as good a solution. We have some other neighbors a few miles away who think yard lights are a bad idea, because the dark actually gives them an advantage on the home turf. They have only lived around here about 85 years though
It's cold again - about 0 to 10 above, so I don't expect much lurking in this weather.
If something does happen again, I really want to catch the person(s) and detain them for LE.
I am convinced in my own mind that when the little dog alerted and my daughter went back to the house, whoever was out there expected daddy to be coming out with a gun shortly, and that is why they vamoosed.
Yeah, I did put up some no trespassing signs right along his driveway easement, just for "effect".
As far as shooting trespassers, the general rule in Montana (not the law) is that you might very well get shot trespassing on someone's land - might not be a justified shoot but that doesn't matter much to the dead person.
I'm not really excited about spending a bunch of money on fixed lights and cameras, etc. For one thing, there is just too much country to cover: 40 acres total, and about 2-3 acres of "yard" that is "developed" and/or used daily. I think going out and checking the area myself is as good a solution. We have some other neighbors a few miles away who think yard lights are a bad idea, because the dark actually gives them an advantage on the home turf. They have only lived around here about 85 years though
It's cold again - about 0 to 10 above, so I don't expect much lurking in this weather.
If something does happen again, I really want to catch the person(s) and detain them for LE.
TallPine
Member
Update:
Through the concern and kindness of a THR member (thanks! ) I found out yesterday that the neighbor is going on trial on 03-14-05 Hopefully, there will be new owners shortly after that. (the feds are supposed to confiscate and auction the place if he is convicted)
It's below zero and snowing for several days, so I don't expect to have anyone lurking around out there much
Through the concern and kindness of a THR member (thanks!
) I found out yesterday that the neighbor is going on trial on 03-14-05 Hopefully, there will be new owners shortly after that. (the feds are supposed to confiscate and auction the place if he is convicted)It's below zero and snowing for several days, so I don't expect to have anyone lurking around out there much
very good news tallpine... consider though, you did not expect someone in hiding last time, so maybe make your current patrols and routines a part of each day, very little effort, and the down side, is major. with the little actual data, I would not feel this was an act of the neighbor, but one of someone yet unknown....
TallPine
Member
Arc-Lite: yeah, always need to expect the "unexpected"
We let one of the big dogs out for a few minutes first thing this morning, and I was watching from the window when the girls were outside. It was dang cold, and I just didn't make my usual "rounds"
Our driveway is separate (somewhat parallel) and up the hill a ways - our house is up on a "bench" above the neighbor's easement, which runs up the bottom of the coulee.
Anyway, nobody would just happen onto this location.
We let one of the big dogs out for a few minutes first thing this morning, and I was watching from the window when the girls were outside. It was dang cold, and I just didn't make my usual "rounds"
Well, my guess is that it was one of his "guests" - either current or someone who had been up here previously. It's a private drive (easement) that runs about 1/4 mile through our place, and NOBODY is supposed to use the drive except the neighbor, his guests, delivery (Ups, fedex, propane,etc), or emergency personnel. (of course we also use it to access some of our property - the drive IS our property, he just has the right to drive through)
Our driveway is separate (somewhat parallel) and up the hill a ways - our house is up on a "bench" above the neighbor's easement, which runs up the bottom of the coulee.
Anyway, nobody would just happen onto this location.
It sounds like you have a very good handle on this, and if some lessons were learned, that will be remembered for the future, then all of this has turned into something of value. Just keep in mind, how easy it can be, to fall back to sleep, something we are all guilty of, in various degrees...keep the true question in focus, it really does not matter who it was, the fact is, it happened, and the results, would have been major. keep your powder dry, and be ready for the worst, and hope for the best. Arc-Lite
Itote
Member
,...yeah,,...but..,,, god, it's hard to,, read,like that. :banghead:
You might want to consider buying the property if it is confiscated and auctioned. It may go cheaper than market value through a govt. auction.
If you buy it, you could rent it out or sell it. Either way, you'll have better control over who your new neighbors are going to be. Heck, if you get it cheap enough, you could just set it up for one of your kids when they are old enough (if they aren't already).
If you buy it, you could rent it out or sell it. Either way, you'll have better control over who your new neighbors are going to be. Heck, if you get it cheap enough, you could just set it up for one of your kids when they are old enough (if they aren't already).
TallPine
Member
Trebor:
Yeah, we would like to do that, but we are trying to get our own place paid off so I can at least semi-retire someday. Even at below market value, it would probably be a substantial sum for 40 acres and several buildings (none of which I would have any interest in - I would prefer to just burn them down
).
What I am hoping is to get some decent people interested in bidding on the property. Maybe some of you THR folks would want to move to rural Montana ...?
Itote:
Just what seems to be the problem ... ????
Yeah, we would like to do that, but we are trying to get our own place paid off so I can at least semi-retire someday. Even at below market value, it would probably be a substantial sum for 40 acres and several buildings (none of which I would have any interest in - I would prefer to just burn them down
).What I am hoping is to get some decent people interested in bidding on the property. Maybe some of you THR folks would want to move to rural Montana ...?
Itote:
Just what seems to be the problem ... ????
FPrice
Member
TallPine...
Let me know when it's listed. And where.
Thanks.
Let me know when it's listed. And where.
Thanks.
SRYnidan
Member
Do some checking there was a young woman abducted in Montana some years back (I think the 80') was compeditive cross counrty skier. Was taken by a father and son team I think for breading purposes. caused quite the stir at the time.
TallPine
Member
Yeah SRYnidan, I think that was the "mountain men" that wanted themselves a woman. She was jogging on a trail IIRC. Somehow, they accidentally wounded her (AD/ND) while she was tied to a tree, and I think they abandoned her. She was found and treated and survived.
Seems like it took a while for the law to catch them - not until the cold and snow came. ASFAIK, the father is still in prison, and I read an article about the son being released a few years ago (Missoula area, maybe?). The father took all the blame in order to get his son a lighter sentence. The son wanted to put it all behind and go straight from now on.
Doesn't have anything to do with our situation. The neighbor is going on trial for selling dirty movies, and he seems to attract a lot of really unsavory characters to his place. The whole neighborhood (many square miles) wants to get rid of him
(seems like there was another gal that went missing on a trail down in Wyoming 3 or 4 yrs ago ... I don't think she ever surfaced )
Seems like it took a while for the law to catch them - not until the cold and snow came. ASFAIK, the father is still in prison, and I read an article about the son being released a few years ago (Missoula area, maybe?). The father took all the blame in order to get his son a lighter sentence. The son wanted to put it all behind and go straight from now on.
Doesn't have anything to do with our situation. The neighbor is going on trial for selling dirty movies, and he seems to attract a lot of really unsavory characters to his place. The whole neighborhood (many square miles) wants to get rid of him
(seems like there was another gal that went missing on a trail down in Wyoming 3 or 4 yrs ago ... I don't think she ever surfaced
)Otherguy Overby
member
Hunt your own property from the BG's perspective
You really need to hunt your own property from the other perspective.
Where would you observe your family from?
Where you you stealthily approach from?
Where would you hide and lay in wait?
Of course you should look for sign in these locations...
Then you need to develop tactics to observe/attack or defend against the above points.
There are battery powered radio motion detectors that you could get and hide along the most likely acess paths.
I think someone already mentioned game cameras.
Anyway, do something. It's never too late to be pro-active, until it's too late, of course.
You really need to hunt your own property from the other perspective.
Where would you observe your family from?
Where you you stealthily approach from?
Where would you hide and lay in wait?
Of course you should look for sign in these locations...
Then you need to develop tactics to observe/attack or defend against the above points.
There are battery powered radio motion detectors that you could get and hide along the most likely acess paths.
I think someone already mentioned game cameras.
Anyway, do something. It's never too late to be pro-active, until it's too late, of course.
TallPine
Member
Overby: I have done all of that, except for the motion detectors and cameras.
I have to assume that the person(s) involved in this are planning to quietly snatch somebody and disappear rather than leave a trail of bodies. Otherwise, we couldn't even live here for fear of a "sniper" attack.
I own the ridges on both sides of the house, and have patrolled them, but not recently because of the weather (-20 and snow, followed by melting and greasy mud). I expected to find some sign of a spy location up there but didn't see anything.
I am really being careful, going outside to check the yard first thing in the morning, and then standing watch when the girls are outside taking care of their stock. For instance, they were turning the horses out of the "corral" and then not putting up the hot wire handle across the drive until they left for school (the ponies don't roam much - we don't even plug it in anymore). But now I walk down there and put the gate up as they go out so they won't be getting out of their car down there in the dark.
The house doors are always locked except when someone is outside.
I got a 2D Maglite for each girl, and showed them how to hold it on their shoulder poised to swing, rather than out in front of them. One of them also now carries a revolver when they go walk their dogs in the evening (they HAVE to keep living their lives). They also have to learn to watch out for themselves wherever they go after they leave home.
The dogs are still the big safety factor
I have to assume that the person(s) involved in this are planning to quietly snatch somebody and disappear rather than leave a trail of bodies. Otherwise, we couldn't even live here for fear of a "sniper" attack.
I own the ridges on both sides of the house, and have patrolled them, but not recently because of the weather (-20 and snow, followed by melting and greasy mud). I expected to find some sign of a spy location up there but didn't see anything.
I am really being careful, going outside to check the yard first thing in the morning, and then standing watch when the girls are outside taking care of their stock. For instance, they were turning the horses out of the "corral" and then not putting up the hot wire handle across the drive until they left for school (the ponies don't roam much - we don't even plug it in anymore). But now I walk down there and put the gate up as they go out so they won't be getting out of their car down there in the dark.
The house doors are always locked except when someone is outside.
I got a 2D Maglite for each girl, and showed them how to hold it on their shoulder poised to swing, rather than out in front of them. One of them also now carries a revolver when they go walk their dogs in the evening (they HAVE to keep living their lives). They also have to learn to watch out for themselves wherever they go after they leave home.
The dogs are still the big safety factor
Bob F.
Member
Tallpine: agree completely with last post.
I've considered redoing the broken motion activated lights outside. They're on the garage end where I have a very limited view and where the driveway comes in (naturally). Could wired 'em to a buzzer or chime so I'd know when they come on, but then the neighbor's Lab and the whitetails would have me up all night!!
Love having a big dog around!!
Stay safe.
Bob
I've considered redoing the broken motion activated lights outside. They're on the garage end where I have a very limited view and where the driveway comes in (naturally). Could wired 'em to a buzzer or chime so I'd know when they come on, but then the neighbor's Lab and the whitetails would have me up all night!!
Love having a big dog around!!
Stay safe.
Bob
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked