Possible abduction attempt ...?

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TallPine

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somewhere in the middle of Montana
This happened yesterday morning but I didn't really find out about it until last night ...

One of my 18 yo daughters went out to feed their horses at 6am before school. Her little Sheltie alarms at something, and she hears a noise right behind the haystack. The dog turns tail and runs for the house and my daughter wisely follows in haste. Some number of seconds later, a vehicle starts up on the neighbor's access road right below the yard, and tears off down to the county road and out of sight.

I wasn't up yet, I heard the dog barking and listened carefully for anything else but didn't hear anything. After all, they sometimes run into a skunk or a racoon early in the morning - usually nothing to worry about.

Now I am really upset. My father instinct is really broiling. I guess for the rest of the winter I will do as I did this morning and get up early and go clear the yard with flashlight and AK before they go outside. When I think of what could have happened I just shudder ... thank goodness for the dog.

It looks to me like somebody has been watching us and had this planned out, but wasn't counting on the dogs. The old man that lives behind us is already in big trouble with the feds over something, and he seems to have all sorts of unsavory characters hanging around at times. I had to run one of his guests off last summer after he was riding his ATV all over our land and scaring the horses.

I don't know when this neighbor is going to trial, but I hope it is soon and that he gets convicted and permanently removed (along with all his buddies) from the neighborhood. They are talking about confiscating his house and land if he is convicted.

No matter where you go, you can't have peace .... :(
 
Bad neighbors are just plain b-a-a-a-d news! When I was a small lad, we lived directly across the street from a couple of bootleggers. Nice enough folks, actually, but their clientele was a different story.

Dad came home from work one evening, and a car with a couple of strange men pulled in the driveway behind him. He asked how he might be able to help them (this is the polite South, after all), and the driver asked for some hootch. Dad politely directed him across the street. The driver and passenger, who had obviously been given slightly incorrect directions or had misunderstood (couldn't tell "right" from "left," maybe :rolleyes: ) got a bit upset, and demanded Dad sell them some whisky. Dad patiently explained the folks they were seeking were ACROSS THE STREET! :mad:

The driver then angrily demanded that Dad give him what he asked for. :evil:

Dad, agreed, walked inside, grabbed his double-barreled 16 gauge and two buckshot loads, and returned to the vehicle. Leveling the shotgun at the driver, he explained that the driver was "asking for it." I really don't think that's what the driver was really asking for, though. :eek: The car left rather quickly . . .

And some close friends think I'm paranoid for keeping a revolver in my pocket when I'm in my own home and my back yard!
 
We have two other dogs, they just didn't happen to go out with her at that time. (too bad the Belgian Malinois didn't go outside at that time also, then we wouldn't have had to feed her for a couple days :evil: )

The girls have a gun at their disposal, but they don't expect to need it a hundred feet from the house.
 
"Out in the fields, a man should never be parted from his weapons. No one knows when a man in the open will have need of a spear."
- Hávamál (attr. to Odin)
 
Looks like you're all set except for changing the mornign routine. Let the big dog run, have the girls practice with the pistol and carry it, don't loose any more sleep. You might want to move/remove any obsticles from their field of view/fire between them and the neighbor's or have them drive to the barn and orbit it before feedind, btu it sounds like you're set.


20 years ago I came home one spring evening to the rented "mother-in-law's" apartment in the basement of a house on the river and the landlady pointed out that a "car" had gone down the dead end and hadn't come back up. She asked if I'd check it out. "Sure". Her boyfriend said I could grab his .45 from under the seat of his Suburban, but I declined in favor of mine - a large Huskey named Sheeba (and a large Maglight and a KBar and a .32 Colt). Since I had been told a suspicious vehicle might be on the property I circled wide around the lakeside field and came up on the barn away from the road. No evidence of vehicle and Sheeba was happy just walking around. Headed up the road Seeba suddenly quit ambling and looked purposfully ahead. Looking closer I spotted the rear of a PU just visable at the gate to the field with the old silo so I told Sheba to sit, climbed through the barbedwire fence and directed Sheeba up the road while I walked up the fenceline in the field (have I mentioned that this is a very smart large female Huskey? :D ). When I got to the gate I saw that there were 3 young men in the truck and a couple of beer cans already on the ground. Sheba had come up on the rear drivers side bumper and sat down with her tongue out seeming to wait for what I wanted her to do next. I called to the truck, "Fellas, whacha doin on private property?" in as friendly a tone as possible. The driver and passenger side doors popped open and 2 of the guys started to get out like they were going to bluster or something else silly. Before the second foot of either hit the ground I just shouted "SHEEBA!" and she hopped up all hackles and fangs and started the "I'm gonna eat your guts" barking she used when strangers pulled into the driveway. Somehow both guys bounced back into the truck, started the engine and threw it into reverse spewing gravel all at what seemed the same second. Sheeba just spinted past the truck up to me and sat down at my feet. When they squeeled up the road she looked up with her tongue lolled out with a "What are we gonna do for fun now Boss?" expression and made sure she got the petting of her life.

Moral of storey - good smart dog under control is a great force multiplier.
 
In something like this...do not question your gut feelings, run up the red flag, that does not hurt. At 6am, it appears a strange time, for something as you suspect, but thats logic, for an ill-logical situation. With your neighbors problems, it could have been surviellence, could have....and that is worth zip !!! Your daughter did the right thing, as did the dog, he barked,she ran, both wise choices. Do a check, foot prints ? anything? tire tracks, new or old thread?if you hear a car, get up, and check 24/7, many times a regular pair of binoculors, with just a small moon, will mag. up the lights...to see in the dark, better then the eye. Also your daughter might enjoy the company of her concerned, loving dad, on her morning walks...a little light sleep, at 6am, is zero, compared to knowing you and yours are safe. Arc-Lite
 
Tracks ... well, as I said, I didn't really know about the whole thing until last night after they got home when it was already dark again. My wife had said something about the car but it didn't seem that important. I went out this morning after it got light but couldn't cut any sign ... grass and pine needles and the driveway down there is hard gravel right now.

The horses (minis) are kept right outside in a pen in the "yard" (cleared area) and the haystack is right there too. Our house sets up on a little bench, and the neighbor's access road runs up the bottom of the coulee to his place, so you can't see much of the road from the house or vice-versa.

What it looks like to me, is that someone parked down there out of sight and then waited for our girls to come out and feed. Ominous, if you ask me ... like maybe "he" was planning to drag her down to the car.

Anyway, one or both of the bigger dogs and I will be going outside first from now on, at least until it is light at that time of morning again.

I am mostly just so upset ... you move way-way out in the country and then have this kind of crap right in your yard :fire: I'm not Ted Turner so I can't afford to buy ten sections of land and have to get by with 40 acres.
 
one suggestion, would be to your wife, daughter, son...everyone....if something happens, be it small, large, major, minor... to speak of it, bring it up, toss it around, and then go forward...this keeps everything current. I understand your feeling about perceived safety, "I live in the country,therefore I should be safe" questionable assumption, scum bags, have cars, and know where the country is !!! keep your focus, adapt to today, city, country, night, day. Good man, you checked the 'signs", and the red flag is up, learn from the past, it usually speaks once ! I.R. goggles are cheap, and fun..and make all nights, noon. Arc-Lite
 
I would call the cops before disturbing the area any more than you have to.

A good many serial killers are caught by evidence from the scene of a missed abduction. Could be this guy's been in business awhile. Not going to get all "CSI" or anything, but if he waited around for awhile there could be stuff down there that might be useful.

Could be nothing but let the cops decide.
 
Well, I have looked the area over and haven't found anything but turkey tracks, which are everywhere :) I also walked both ridges to see if I could find any sign of anybody hanging out up there and watching, you know like trash or a sit spot, but didn't see anything.

Not much help from the "cops" ... we have 4 deputies for 2500 sq miles and they won't come way out here for much of anything, least of all for "my dog barked at something" :rolleyes: Now if I have a body for them, they might come out :evil:

It's just too dang bad that the Malinois wasn't the dog that went out first ... then whoever it was would have been ripped to pieces. Incidentally, when our other daughter did take her dog out there later, she sniffed around behind the haystack and got all excited (the dog that is, not our daughter).

We are on "bright orange" alert for the foreseeable future.

I just wish I could find out when this neighbor's trial is coming up ... <sigh> ... I checked the 9th District website but they don't have any case info other than some site that you can download filed documents from that costs like 60 cents a minute.

I hope they convict this guy and sell off his place before I have to shoot somebody.
 
sounds like your doing everything you can, at this point...just let everyone know, under your roof...to just keep talking....any news, is new.... keeping the alert status high, is good, and from now on. If as you, think, it was a focus on your family, and their focus was the personal patterns of each member, it is professional, and not a clown. Either way, they were detected, and made a rapid retreat. Usually these people are looking for something easy, pro. or clown, and first round, showed you and your family are not easy. Not knowing the size of your hay storage..a thought would be to move it, now...or plan a new storage location for the future, someone thought, it was a good surveilance, for what ever reasons, and that in itself is reason enough to move it...one time their fault, two times, your fault. Arc-Lite
 
Good thing that no one got hurt.

I'd definately install some exterior flood lights, urchins don't like light. Let the dogs out routinely at various times, no matter how big they are, they will usually detect something wrong like yours did. Set up an emergency alert system, cell phone, whistle, motorola radio, horn, something. Go out in pairs during the witching hours. Definately call the cops to let them know what happened.

Knives at close differences are very effective. Guns are the best.

Being a city kid, man, the country scares me. LOL, I feel much safer in a city environment that out in the country. Anything could hapen out there! :eek:

The urchin could be staking out yoru house rather than an abduction attempt. That's was I would suspect.
 
Tallpine-

Good point made above, and seems you are taking great precautions. I'm not going to rule out the abduction concerns - that is real.

With the info you provided my gut is sensing another possiblity or two. My gut screamed "being cased!"

Perhaps related to neighbor, or neighbor's "visitors". Folks get curious about what they see enroute to places, neighbor's "talk"...just never know what illegal ears "hear".

"IF" one of these visitors spoke of your place , and someone not involved with the bad neighbor heard it...could be you are being cased, the younger girls - no disrespect- an added consideration.

I would consider a timer like deer hunters use across the road , see if in fact someone is traveling to view from a distance. Even regular string strung accross, scattering chat, cheap sand, bird seed, tossing some brush ...anything to make a note of when placed and then "disturbed".

Getting a feel of family routine is what my gut tells me for sure...not sure the girls are the primary targets.

In another life I was really conderned about kidnapping of myself, those times I had a family, I had them to consider as well. So I understand and empathize with concerns.

My best thoughts to you and yours on this situation.
 
Daughter have any crazy love lorn boys interested in her? Might be some classmate just obsessed, if it is usually harmless but not always.

I have lived in both country and city, I like the country much better, I just feel safer because you can hear things, like a vehicle coming down the lane etc. I can't wait to get back out there again, kinda stuck back in town for a few circumstances out of my control.

Charby
 
1. Make a police report.
2. Ask daughter if there is someone, including adults, who seems really interested in her.
3. Reduce the number of places for an intruder to hide in the barn (Arrange it so that daughter can see if someone is there).

My opinion. May have been nothing. But...
I don't like the "coincidence" that someone (possibly) hid themselves in the location where your daughter is routinely alone, and this location just happens to be sepparated from your house. In other words, if I wanted to abduct her, I would spy on her daily activities until I knew that this was the best location and time of day to find her alone and do what I wanted.
As a homicide prosecutor (and a long time prosecutor of sexual predators), I know that many creeps learn their prey's habits, figure out the best time to strike...then do it.
If this was a predator, then he will wait a little while to get his courage up, then come back when he figures y'all have let your guard down again. He may select another location or time of day, or he may return to the barn.
You need to report this (the cops may blow it off, they may take it seriously). Who knows? There could be a rash of this sort of thing in your jurisdiction and some detective will put a pin down on the map next to your house, and figure out a pattern.
I don't want to sound like an alarmist. The dog could have smelled a rat, and when he barked an unrelated spy in your neighbor's case was frightened and drove off. But if this were my daughter, I'd make the barn safe, always keep the dog with her outside, and have her circle the barn with a pistol before she goes in. Maybe she has a sibling who could go with her?
Let us know if something else comes up.
David
 
"Might be useful to setup a hunters camera on the other side of (or in) the hay. At the very worst, you are out $70 or so dollars."

Great Idea.
 
TallPine,

You haven't bought or sold a sawed off shotgun lately have you? Sounds suspiciously like a certain Idaho situation we are all too familiar with. Maybe you are being staked out by a different kind of goblin.

Greg
 
Anyone going out into the dark, for any reason, really needs to carry a good flashlight. If nothing else, so you don't trip over Mr. Skunk who is not your friend. :)
 
I wrote out a post last nite, but there was an error when I selected "Submit" and all my text was lost :mad:

Anyway, the hay is not in a barn, just in a stack pen only about 75 feet from the house, and the edge of our "yard" which is the cleared, mowed, and developed area of our land.

I wouldn't be so concerned about this except for this one neighbor who has the access through our land to his place. I would tell you what he is in trouble for and give you the news link, but that would basically be posting my address for the whole world to see (since we live "next door").

To make it worse, I found out last night that our other daughter had seen a vehicle stopped on the road below our house at that same time of morning a week or two ago ... :confused: ... makes it seem like he/they were watching from the road.

Funny thing is that we haven't seen any traffic at all going in or out of that place the past few days ... like he was going out of state and - well, you fill in the blanks :uhoh: .

The girls have a heightened sense of awareness now ... one of them strapped on a 22 revolver (yeah, I know - but they are recoil and noise sensitive) when they to walk their dogs the last couple evenings.

I'm checking the yard area every morning now before the girls go out. I'll let you all know if I catch any varmits ;) :evil:
 
I certainly agree that the heightened alert level is called for!! Nothing wrong with little-one carrying a .22, nothing at all! Just make sure she has a holster that she can clear quickly and encourage her to shoot, not threaten!

Camera's an excellent idea. So's binocs-check his place out, maybe he left a candle burning or something. Also, check with an LEO you trust (as in most of them), maybe they know where neighbor has gone and if he'll likely be back.

Stay sadfe.
Bob
 
tallpine....if this road is accessed by you, and your neighbor only....might be the time for a locked chain, or gate, with two keys only, yours and his... if this neighbor that has caused problems, is the other one, with the key, cool, when they ship him off to the big house, change the locks..ya I know, Montana, big sky, freedom.... trust...but this calls for action, and to keep control of this entire situation. Another thing, that still might not be clear with the family, is the HIGH need to talk, of the days and nights events... in detail, a little info here, a ittle there....is not the way this data should be coming in.... talking at dinner, is wise, for about 1000 other reasons as well. If you have some late night buds, might be the time, to pass some cash, for use of their night eyes. The reaction on this board, has been concern, if I knew you, I would have been there from day one.... call in the favors, hire some night eyes...make some visible changes.... if as "cooke" on this board says, and it sounds right to me, time to keep the red flag out, and expect the worst, and hope for the best... regain control of this situation, we are not talking of a skinned knee, were talking social scum bag predators...and your family is the ham Arc-Lite
 
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