Possible Makarov (Original not caliber)

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christcorp

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Ok Mak gurus; need advice and info. I make them bullet statements so hopefully it will be easier to answer what you can. I'll make the most obvious question #1.

1. Dealer has a used pistol for sale. Has had it quite a while. On the tag it says "WALTHER"; but no where on the pistol does it say "WALTHER". But there is a very small engraving on the frame that says "9mm Mak". Did "Walther" ever produce a pistol in "9mm Makarov" caliber?

2. Assuming the answer to #1 is "NO"; which I believe is the correct answer; can someone help me determine this pistol. There is very little information on the pistol. The following are the only inscriptions I can find:
a) Small inscription; probably by importer; on the left side of frame; close to trigger; that says "9mm Mak"
b) Serial Number (Matches on frame and slide) is "Cxxxx" (4 "Xs" represent numbers)
c) The word "germany" is written I believe on the slide, but it could have been on the frame
d) Magazine release is on the BOTTOM.
e) Grips "seem" to be like the "Russian" makarov with the rounder "Egg/oval" shape at the top of the grips. But there are no circles and stars on the grips.
f) On the frame; above left grip; is a marking of "60." That's the number 60 with a period after it. I believe there was another marking close to that, but I can't remember it.

Anyway; if anyone out there has any clues, that would be great. That seems to be all that's on it. I field stripped it to see if there were any other marks. NONE. It field strips like the "Walther" in that you pull on the trigger guard, and have to sort of hold it to the side so it doesn't pop back in; so you can bring the slide back and up and out. In other words, it's not a "CLICK" like my CZ-82, but more like the walther clone FEG-PA63. I don't know much about "REAL MAKAROVS". Something tells me this IS A REAL GERMAN Mak. But the dealer doesn't really know what he has. And obviously, neither does the owner, being it's marked on the tag as a "WALTHER".

From looking at a lot of pictures on gunbroker of supposed "German" Makarovs; it seems that the one I'm looking at is german. They want $350 for it and 2 extra magazines and holster (That also fits the 2 magazines) What do you think? Any assistance is appreciated. Thanks....
 
Did you get a picture?

Makarovs are either E German, Russian, Bulgarian, or Chinese. Many people mistakenly believe that the Mak was a copy of the Walther.

Walther never made them.

What you saw was most definitely an E German Makarov.
 
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It's a fixed site, and definitely doesn't resemble the IJ70 russian. And being it says "germany" on it; I'm leaning towards an E. German Makarov. I was just wondering if there were any other german 9mm Makarov "CHAMBERED" pistols that weren't actual "Makarovs". I.e. just like the cz-82, pa63, p64 are CHAMBERED for 9mm makarov but AREN'T actual Makarov pistols. I'm just surprised that there weren't more markings on it. But the markings that are there, seem very close to the e. german makarovs I've seen pictures of. Now to just decide if $350 is a decent price, or if I should try and get the price down significantly, or if I even need another pistol chambered in 9mm mak.
 
Actually Shear; it is very close to that. Black grips. Serial numbers in the same spot. The number "60" is the same. Not quite sure about the mark to the right of the "60", but there's definitely something on the one I was looking at. The other marks in the one in your link, front of the trigger, don't seem to be on the one I looked at. Although, very small, there was the inscribed "9mm Mak". Also; can't remember where; I believe on the revers side (Right side; passenger's side); is where the word "Germany" is written.

But I would say that if the picture in your link had black grips; WITHOUT the star and circle; it would probably be the closest yet. The "60" is definitely dead on balls accurate. And I've seen a few other pics of the E. German ones with the number being a "61" or such. Definitely the closest.

So, I guess it is the e. german that I thought. Now, my only question is: do I get it??? Thanks....
 
Sounds like an EG to me. Only the commercial versions had adjustable sights all others had fixed sights, regardless of country.

Post your info on gunboards.com's mak forum and you'll have an expert answer before the day is out. Many collectors there with at least one sample of every kind of mak made.
 
Yep,you're right about the rear sight,hammerklavier. I can't remember where I read that but researching it(which I should have done FIRST,lol) proved you to be right.
 
The EG is the only version of Makarov utilizing a fixed rear sight....
Click to expand...

Not true. My Bulgarian has a fixed rear sight, as do Chinese and Russian service issues. The only one to have adjustable sights was the Russian commercial version, the Baikal.

christcorp: If it's a Mak, snag it. Those extra mags are hard to find. Pro-Mag makes some but they never fit.
 
Well, I'll probably be passing on it. Because it's on "Consignment", the dealer really isn't at liberty to lower the price without checking with the owner. But he plans on contacting him to tell him that it's NOT a Walther.

If I didn't already own a CZ-82, PA-63, and P64; I would consider buying it. Even at the $350 price. Mainly because of the 2 extra magazines. But considering that I already have 3 9x18 makarov caliber pistols already; and there's a gun show in town tomorrow and over the weekend; I'm sure I can find something else to spend $300 on. Thanks for all the info.
 
The "9mm MAK" marking was applied by the importer to conform to GCA 68, which requires the name of the importer and the caliber to be marked on any imported guns (like milsurp) that don't have that information applied at the factory.

Walther never made a pistol in 9mm Makarov, but they did make the PP Super in 9x18 Police which is sometimes confused with the 9x18 Mak. The cartridges are not identical or interchangeable.

Jim
 
christcorp said:
If I didn't already own a CZ-82, PA-63, and P64; I would consider buying it.
Click to expand...

I'd sell the PA-63 and P64 to fund the EG. A year from now the EG will easily be worth around $400. I doubt if the Hungarian and Polish 9x18s will appreciate in value at all. If you're into 9x18s, you've got to have a Makarov and an EG would be a nice way to start the collection.
 
I'd sell the PA-63 and P64 to fund the EG.
Click to expand...

What he said!

The P64 and the PA-63, while reliable and functional, are downright brutish when compared to the Makarov. They are not comfortable shooters. I've owned them so I know. Even with a new set of Wolff springs, those two still banged the hand; the P64 was definitely the worst. Don't get me wrong, I use a PA-63 for carry sometimes; it's light. But, for pleasant shooting, it's not the ticket.

Comparatively, the Mak shoots like a dream. With all respect, don't pass up the Mak. It's in another league altogether.

Passing on a Mak because you own a PA-63 and a P64 is like refusing a nice Crown Vic because you already have a Gremlin and a Yugo.
 
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Woad; if you look, I also mentioned having the CZ-82. And there are arguments that it is probably a much better shooter than any of the Makarovs.

The PA-63, I really like. I also have it's sister; the AP-MBP which is the identical gun, in the 32acp version. Both shoot great; fits in my front pocket; and definitely reliable. And with the spring job, I don't find the PA-63 a difficult gun to shoot at all. It and the 32acp fit my hand perfectly. Never got caught by the slide. Never had too much recoil. Very smooth gun to shoot. NO, it's not like the CZ-82 or my Sig P220; but it's a decent gun to shoot.

If I can get the owner/dealer to drop the price below $300; I'll consider it. If for no other reason, than to just sell it. My current 3 I have plans for. CZ-82 is the main carry in warmer weather. (Sig P220 in cold months). The PA-63 is in hot weather or when I am dressed up for a formal event. The 32acp version I plan on giving to my daughter as a purse/pocket gun. The P64; I don't know about yet. The EG Makarov just doesn't have a place. If I didn't have a mint CZ-82; there'd be no question. But 2 almost identical guns in caliber and weight and size; just is hard to rationalize. But thanks for the input.

There's a gun show starting today. I was thinking of a tokarev, being I stupidly sold my other one. But if there's nothing worth buying there, I might reconsider the EG makarov. Definitely not for $350 however. Thanks again....
 
Walther made a pistol called the PP Super.
It is chambered in 9X18 Ultra caliber.
Similar but not the same as nor interchangeable with the 9X18 Makarov.

Could this be the pistol the dealer is offering?
He may be ill informed about the actual caliber and just assumes it is chambered in 9X18 Makarov.

Hit this link for a picture of the pistol and a description.
http://world.guns.ru/handguns/hg148-e.htm
 
Onmilo; thanks for the info; but we are pretty much beyond the "What is it" part of the question. It's an east german makarov. The only reason the word "WALTHER" was even mentioned, was because that's what the dealer put on the advertising card attached to the gun. In no way has Walther ever made a gun that looked anything like a Makarov. If you look at the link, you'll see that it's a traditional style Walther. Everything from the magazine ejection on the side (Compared to a makarov which is on the bottom of the heel); to the sloping front end. Also; realize that a 9x18 POLICE is not the same as a 9x18 makarov. (9x18 Police is also known as 9x18 ultra; and a totally different caliber). I never really thought it was a walther. Other than the field stripping; which is pretty common among most Blow Back pistols, there's nothing Walther about it.

I went to a gun show today. Talk about sad. I only found 2 vendors with any 9x18 mak ammo. The one had quite a bit of silver bear HP and Brown Bear FMJ. Not bad prices. $16 for the HP and $15 for the FMJ. But; I still have about 1000 rounds of silver bear left. Some of the others had a misc. box of ammo here and there. I did pick up some original TCW ammo (Later known by the name Wolf). I bought it cause it's some of the HOTTER stuff no longer available. 109 grain bullets at 1050 fps; instead of the normal 94 grain at 1000 fps. I normally use JHP for defense; but now that it's winter; if I don't change to my sig p220 45acp and stay using the CZ-82, I might load the 109 grain FMJ for winter.

But, overall, the gun show sucked. SO, I might have to think again about the East German Makarov. I definitely won't pay $350 for it. I doubt that the dealer can get the owner of the gun (It's on consignment), to lower the price much. But I'd pay $275 for it. It's probably worth the $350; with 2 magazines. And if I didn't already own the CZ-82, PA-63, and P64; I'd most definitely buy it. But I definitely don't need this one. It's been at the dealer quite a while. It will probably be there for a while more at the $350 price. But; now that the dealer knows what it is; he'll probably list it properly, and it might sell faster. Thanks again for all the info. This was a very informative thread.
 
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