Makarov CCW

[makarovnik]

I like the CZ82 and 83 best.

The Russian and Bulgy Maks are still very good guns.

Both my PA63 and P64 kicked nasty but I prefer over the PA63 aluminum frame. I was able to put heavier recoil spring in and it helped with recoil on both guns. My PA63 would not feed truncated cone or hollowpoints.

The P64 is a nice small reliable pistol if you can handle the recoil and double action trigger. Recoil is like a snub nose .357 mag.

 

[David E]

The best and cheapest solution is to buy a GOOD holster for the Glock 19.

 

[David E]

Big Bill, may I ask? What is your point??? Are you saying that because the 9mm makarov isn't as powerful as a 9mm luger, that it's not a good self defense and/or carry round?

I'm not Big Bill, but it's obvious to most folks that the 9x18 is not as powerful as the 9x19. That whole "factual analysis" thing. Presuming the shooter can control the 9x19 fired from the aforementioned Glock 19, then the 9x19 is simply a better choice for defensive purposes.

This argument has been made many times, and there's never any proof. Sorry. I guess, all those people who carry 380's and 32's should just admit that they're going to die. And as you pointed out, the 9mm makarov is more powerful than either of those 2.... Hmmm, that makes no sense.

You just have to think for a second. For the SIZE and WEIGHT of a Makarov, you can have a better, more powerful gun that's easier to shoot and hit with.

The .32's and .380's mentioned are smaller and lighter than the Mak, so they fill a niche the Mak does not. You can easily slip a Kel-tec .380 into the pocket, but you'd have to wear the Mak on the belt. If you're going to go to that much trouble, then why not carry a 9mm/.40/.45 acp of equal, if not lesser, size and weight instead ?

 

[NWCP]

Call CDNN. They usually have pretty good prices and I see where they have deals going on the PA63 as well as the CZ82. My personal preference for CCW is a 9mm, but then again you'll be spending a bit more money for a quality subcompact. I use a Kahr PM9 for deep concealment and haven't looked back. The East German Maks are nice little pistols, as are the CZ82s, but the 9x18 is an inferior round compared to the 9x19. JMHO

 

[sarge83]

If you like the pa63 try ordering some replacement springs from Wolfe, they make a world of difference. I have the 63, a couple of real Maks and the CZ82, I still prefer the Maks over all.

 

[grimjaw]

While not as available as in times past, you can still find .380 conversion barrels for the Makarov PM. I mention this because of the more wider selection of self defense ammunition in manufactured in .380 ACP than is imported in 9x18 Makarov.

The only issue I have with the Makarov PM is the sights, and that the price has inflated so much over the $135 I paid for mine in 2004.

 

[kragluver]

+1 on the P64. I have one that I've carried now for about 3 months when I can't conceal my 1911. I don't find the P64 recoil too punishing although it is a bit snappy. I think the recoil issue is over-blown. Be careful taking a high grip though as the slide will leave "railroad tracks" on the top of your hand

I replaced the hammer spring with the Wolf 18# spring and I made my own stiffer trigger return spring. I also put a 22# recoil spring in it (also from Wolf). The result is a very nice pistol with a very good DA and SA trigger. As others have stated, reliability and accuracy are great. I use an IWB tuckable holster for the Walther PPK that fits the P64 like a glove.

 

[christcorp]

I don't understand why you would need a wider selection of self defense ammunition for the 9x18; or why you would want to spend MORE money for a caliber that isn't as good as the 9x18??? Total mystery. There is plenty of self defense ammunition for the 9x18. It is more available and less expensive than the 380. It is a larger diameter and weight bullet than the 380. And you don't have to pay the additional cost for the 2nd barrel.

There was a time when 9x18 ammunition was rare. At that time, a 380 conversion made some sense. Those days are long gone. There is absolutely no reason in the world to convert a 9x18 to a 9x17 (380).

 

[Litlman]

I have been looking at a Glock 19 at a local shop lately and it does appeal to me. I do have 2 Bulgarian Maks & CCW both of them regularly. I will put them in my pocket or in an Eagle belt side holster. They are balls out accurate & reliable. Alot of people do CCW Maks.

 

[grimjaw]

why you would want to spend MORE money for a caliber that isn't as good as the 9x18???

I didn't intend for my comments to promote thread drift. My intention in mentioning the caliber conversion was to list a positive detail about the Makarov PM, should someone find 9x18 less available or affordable; not to argue about the merits of calibers.

I'm glad, though, that your position in Cheyenne affords you such a wide view of the world situation. ;/

Mysteriously yours,

jm

 

[Jbabbler]

The only problem I see with the P64 suggestion is the complete lack of parts availability. Several people have experienced broken decockers and there are none to be had. If you get one, I would not use the decocker w/o my thumb slowly lowering the hammer. Many believe that they were "over-hardned". That being said, I love my P64 and it is a blast to shoot. Very accurate and incredibly easy to conceal. I would say that modern handguns such as the P11 have much more firepower in terms of caliber and capacity in a much smaller size. However, the P64 gives you a loaded chamber indicator, safety, decocker, SA/DA and a pretty high coolness factor.

The Makarov PM is an amazing gin as well, I have several and they fit in most holsters made for the 1911 officers model. Parts are easy to get and cheap. It is an awful large gun for it's capacity/caliber though.

 

[emilianoksa]

A Mak may be heavy but it's slim, and not as likely to print as a Glock 19 or a snubbie revolver.

 

[kragluver]

Interesting comment. That's the first I'd heard about the decocker issue. I'll start being more careful with mine.

 

[DrakeGmbH]

The only issue I have with the Makarov PM is the sights, and that the price has inflated so much over the $135 I paid for mine in 2004.

The Baikal Makarov pistol sights can be improved with a replacement fixed rear sight. Here's a before and after on mine.

Factory target rear sight:

Replacement fixed rear sight:

Although I've since retired this pistol from the carry role, it's very slim and compact. Holster choices are a bit scarce, though. I paid $200 for this pistol about three years ago.

 

[christcorp]

grimjaw; I suppose your position in Arkansas gives you some insight into the greater availability of defense ammo for the 380 over the 9mm makarov??? Cheyenne doesn't give me that insight. However; this dude: "Al Gore"; invented the internet, and ever since then, the world has opened up. As such; if you can't find a box or 2 of defense ammo (Not like you are going to be shooting a lot of people in self defense); then it's because you haven't figured out yet how to use your resources. But if you want to spend more money on a 380 barrel for Mak; so you can buy ammo that is harder to find and 2 to 3 times the price of 9mm makarov; with absolutely no positive benefits compared to the makarov; then you are absolutely free to do so.

 

[David E]

A .380 barrel doesn't cost much and is like making two guns from one. The obvious reason to buy one is versatility.

Maybe christcorp's Wal-Mart or Academy or Gart Brothers are better stocked than mine, as I've never seen 9x18 ammo there. But I have seen .380 at all three, as well as other stores.

If I cared enough to buy a 9x18 gun, I'd also buy ammo in bulk online, but most people are not inclined to do that.

 

[grimjaw]

DrakeGmbH, I knew about the rear sights available for those Baikal versions. Most things I've read about defensive pistol shooting preach the mantra of "front sight, front sight, front sight." Although I agree that replacing the rear sight is an improvement, it still doesn't make it a better defensive tool, IMO. I think Stephen Camp had (or at least pictured) a Makarov PM that had the original front sight replaced with a dovetail and a larger front sight. Since I couldn't find someone to do that on the cheap, my Maks got turned into range-only guns.

I still have one Makarov PM, a Bulgarian in 9x18 (with a .380 barrel in reserve). Even though I hardly ever shoot it, it's hard to part with them altogether. They are simple, reliable, and consistently accurate pistols, built like tanks for their caliber.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

the mak is my ccw. never a reliability issue after 100's of rounds. I did replace the recoil spring with a heavier aftermarket as I load some '+P' loads for it.

 

[Mastifflover]

Boy have prices gone up

I bought a Makarov in the early 90's chambered in .380 acp at a gunshow for like $125. Stupidly sold it later. Wish I still had it. Heavy but damn fun to shoot. My stepdad bought one at the same time and still has his.

 

[nathan]

Barnaul 95 gr JHPs shoots really good on my Russkie IJ 70 .

 

[christcorp]

David; I understand where you're coming from. But if a person isn't "Inclined" as you say to use the internet and have it as a source for buying ammo; then I really have no response to that. That simply means that a person won't use that as an option to shop. No different that a person who is dead set against shopping at Walmart. (There are plenty of those people too). But there's a big difference between saying you won't shop online or at walmart, and saying that a certain caliber isn't available or difficult to find. The 9x18 is 1/2 to 1/3 the price of 9x17 (380) ammo. 9x18 is available currently in more places than 380. Just because a person refuses to shop online doesn't make it not available. And FWIW, the gun shops I've been to in the last year (In 4 different states as well as numerous gun shows), usually had at least 9x18 self defense ammo. Granted, I wouldn't pay $18-$20 for a box of ammo to plink with. I'd buy the 1 or 2 boxes, which is all you'll ever need for self defense; and buy plinking ammo online.

But I do agree, that there are some people that are hard headed or ignorant. And if they can't buy the ammo locally, then they won't buy it at all. And as such, they probably shouldn't be buying a gun that's chambered in 9mm makarov. These same people probably wouldn't buy a particular car unless they had that dealership right there in their own town.

So, you definitely bring up a valid point. Guns chambered in 9x18 makarov, 7.62x25 tokarev, and numerous other calibers: "Including in the last year 380's in MOST places". Should NOT be bought and owned by people who are ignorant of the internet; can't or won't buy ammo on the internet; don't travel outside of their local community and has access to a greater variety of ammo; etc... These calibers are designed for the experienced gun owner or the experienced internet user.

So, I guess the right question to the original poster is: Are you the type of person who is willing to buy ammo on the internet? Getting the gun is easy through your local gun shop. (You have to do that or buy one at the local gun show). Also; does your town have many gun shows? If they do, then you can usually find 9x18 ammo there too. MOST gun shops will have some, albeit a small supply, of self defense 9x18 like hornady ammo. If not, they can get it easy enough. At what level of "Support" are you willing to give to a gun chambered in Makarov??? If you don't want to buy ammo online or similar; then don't buy a gun chambered in 9x18 9mm makarov.

 

[DrakeGmbH]

grimjaw: The problem I encountered most with my Makarov's original sights was 'losing' the front sight with the narrow rear aperture between shots. The new rear is a definite improvement in terms of sight acquisition and reacquisition. Granted it wasn't built from the ground up as a high-speed low-drag self defense weapon - it's still no slouch. It passed the shooting portion of my CHL class easily - but that's not exactly an intensive test of a pistol's ability. It's all a bit moot now as I don't carry it anymore, but I certainly wouldn't feel handicapped if I had to.

 

[David E]

If the question was, "I have limited funds, so what's the "best buy" for a CCW gun?" or, "I already own a Mak, is it good for CCW?" then I can certainly understand all the Makarov endorsements.

But the OP does NOT already own one. But he does already own a Glock 19. Most folks consider the G-19 to be a very good choice for concealment, as it is a perfect embodiment of power, capacity, weight and size.

To willingly discard a gun for one that is less powerful, has much less capacity, is heavier, is harder to shoot well and requires a different set of gunhandling protocols is a shortsighted endeavor.

I'll say it again: The best solution to the OP's question is to buy a good holster for the G-19.

 

[DrakeGmbH]

I'll say it again: The best solution to the OP's question is to buy a good holster for the G-19.

YaNi did say he wants something thinner than a Glock 19 and was considering a Makarov to fill that role. To an extent a better holster for the Glock may help with his problem - but a holster won't make a pistol shorter or thinner if it remains a problem.

If concealment is the biggest concern and dropping from 9x19 to 9x18 or 9x17 is an acceptable compromise - then I would give strong consideration to the subcompacts such as the Ruger LCP or Kel-Tec P3AT. At the show I went to yesterday afternoon I saw a dozen or more P3AT's priced between $240 and $300 - about the same price range as a Makarov but much thinner, lighter and shorter.

With the recent debate about the pro's and con's of ordering ammunition online I would hope that there isn't a stigma about ordering handguns online to find better deals than local shops offer.

 

[David E]

YaNi did say he wants something thinner than a Glock 19 and was considering a Makarov to fill that role. To an extent a better holster for the Glock may help with his problem - but a holster won't make a pistol shorter or thinner if it remains a problem.

One might be surprised how big of a difference a good holster makes.