Possible recovery of stolen gun

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cjwils

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Hypothetically, say that a gun was stolen in a burglary several years ago. Local police investigated and filed a report listing the gun by make, model, caliber, and serial number, and included a photo. Police reported it to NCIC.

Recently, Burglary Victim learned that the gun came up for discussion in an internet firearms forum (not this one). That discussion includes make, model, caliber, serial number, and photos; leaving no doubt that it is the same gun. Burglary Victim does not know the real name and location of the Present Possessor of the gun. It is likely that Present Possessor does not know the gun is stolen. It is likely that Present Possessor is in another jurisdiction, maybe in another state.

What should Burglary Victim do at this point?

What obligations is Present Possessor under? Must he return the gun? Sell it back? Hand it over to law enforcement in his area?

What if Burglary Victim received an insurance payout for the burglary, including the estimated value of the gun? Must the value of the gun be refunded if the gun is returned? If the gun is damaged would any refund be reduced?

What if, because of damage, Burglary Victim prefers to keep the insurance money and not have the gun returned? What would happen to the gun? What happens to Present Possessor?

Any other major considerations?
 
It would appear to me, that the victim and the present owner are legal and satisfied with the present scenario. The present owner, if having any sense at all would not post the description of said gun if they had any clue at all it was stolen. Odds are it may have been sold more than once by legal responsible gun owners not having any clue. While there may be a gray line as to what is really legal in this scenario, to me, the ethics would tell me, if I'd rather not have to cough up the money and the present owner is happy with his purchase, I'd let it be, unless I knew for sure the present owner could name the robber. The present owner would be the only real loser in this case if the gun was reported found if the robber cannot be identified.
 
buck460XVR said:
The present owner would be the only real loser in this case if the gun was reported found if the robber cannot be identified.
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I would feel some obligation to the current owner. . . he doesn't know he's in possession of stolen property, and might find out in extremely inconvenient circumstances, maybe involving a stay in jail.

If roles were reversed, and I was unknowingly in possession of a hot gun, I would wish to be informed so I could sort it out.
 
If everyone's satisfied with the way things turned out so far, I would go about finding a way to get it removed from any database of stolen guns. No point in letting any unknowing owner get caught in the crossfire if someone sells it to a LGS and the number gets flagged.
If the current owner is obviously not the thief, I might let them know. Maybe they could help trace back.
 
Title never passes on stolen property. The person who stole it never had title, and could not pass title to anyone else.

If no insurance is involved, the person presently in possession of the firearm is obligated to return it. The person who sold him the gun owes him his money back.

If insurance made a payout, the insurance company has claim on the gun.
 
entropy said:
That is why in said case, it would be best to let sleeping dogs lie.
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Its not exactly a sleeping dog, it is a stolen firearm and if for what ever reason it comes out, the current owner is in a bit of trouble. The lawyer fees would very likely exceed what the person paid for the gun, not to mention the aggravation, lost work time, worry and anger at having bought a stolen gun. If it was me I would like to know that fact.
 
cjwils

In your hypothetical case I would say the Burglary Victim might want to contact their local PD or BATF office to see what they might suggest in terms of pursuing this matter.
 
Report what you know to the jurisdiction to whom you first reported the theft and let the chips fall where they may.

The present possessor (note that I didn't say owner) may lose the handgun, but he will no longer be in possession of stolen property. The original owner may or may not regain possession since there are too many variables to say outright.

Edit to add: I have had one handgun stolen, and that is what I would do.

Colt Pony .380 Auto SN: ML03841 (stolen 4/99, reported to Albuquerque Police Department)
 
denton said:
Title never passes on stolen property. The person who stole it never had title, and could not pass title to anyone else.

If no insurance is involved, the person presently in possession of the firearm is obligated to return it. The person who sold him the gun owes him his money back.

If insurance made a payout, the insurance company has claim on the gun.
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Denton nailed it
 
If it were me, I'd report it to the agency that took the initial report. Something stolen from me, maybe a cherished firearm, I want it back. I'll deal with the insurance company that paid out if need be. Depending on condition when recovered, some insurance money may still be required.

No way I'm letting a thief or a possessor of stolen property keep my goods if there's a possibility to recover them. A law enforcement agency should be able to track down the owner of the computer address that posted it.
 
I would personally contact local law enforcement and let them handle it from there. Even if I didn't want the gun back I would turn it in in hopes that it could be traced back to the initial thief.
 
If for any reason the SN is run by any LE agency the gun is going to show up as stolen and the person in possession has some explaining to do. Chances are very good that the current owner is a victim who had no clue the gun was stolen and will not be prosecuted. He will not however be allowed to keep the gun.

If I were in possession of such a gun, and had any clue that it might be stolen I'd be taking it to the local LE and having them run the SN. If it turned up stolen then I don't want it. I have on several occasions had LE friends run the SN of used guns I had purchased just to confirm they were not in the system. None have so far.

The person who had the gun stolen should take the evidence to the local PD and show it to an investigator and let them handle it. If it is in fact the same gun, someone in the jurisdiction where the gun currently is should be making contact with the owner.

Personally, if I had possession of the gun, and didn't know it were stolen, I'd be glad to find out and get it back to the rightful owner. Just bad luck for me. If insurance is involved the original owner needs to have a meeting with the insurance company. Depending on the gun and any sentimental value I might be inclined to just let them have it. If it were a family heirloom I'd pay whatever it took to get it back.
 
and when you make that trip to your local PD - you'll be needing your original case number so that whoever you make the report with can do a supplement to the original case number... The report will also be needed to be directed to the originating agency (and they will be the ones required to remove the stolen message from the system if the weapon is ever recovered...).

In these days where quite a few have serious computer skills - tracking down the owner of that internet posting might not be so hard at all - with the appropriate data...

You never know when some relatively simple matter - info on a stolen weapon... may not end up involved in something much bigger (or you could just as easily find out that a friend or relative was involved in that initial theft....). That sort of stuff kept me paying attention as a young cop, all those years ago...
 
This sort of situation explains why some people blank out the serial numbers of guns when posting pictures on the Internet. It's not unreasonable to try to avoid trouble if there's the slightest chance the gun might have been stolen.
 
AlexanderA said:
This sort of situation explains why some people blank out the serial numbers of guns when posting pictures on the Internet. It's not unreasonable to try to avoid trouble if there's the slightest chance the gun might have been stolen.
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This isn't it at all. I've been known to blank out serial numbers. The reason is that there are scammers out there. They steal pictures and post fraudulent ads. It would not surprise me to learn that a legal owner had to defend against a claim of theft based on a posted picture that included a serial number. The thought of blanking a serial number on a picture of one of my guns because it might be stolen never crossed my mind until your post. Frankly, I agree with the others who have posted that should they become aware that they were in possession of a stolen firearm, they'd want to make it right.
 
A little off topic but I have a friend that runs a pawn shop post a pic of a generator he had for sale couple days later the police showed up and told him it was reported stolen from another county. He took the generator in from the original owner and had the original sales receipt from the owner, the police had a copy of the picture he posted showing the generator sitting on his shelf, the report filed with the police didn't list the serial number. Thieves will file false reports with police and let the police do the stealing for them.
 
lemaymiami got it right. Report it to your local PD, Or best, contact the original PD that it was first reported to if you have moved. A supplement report will be made to the original with any new info. A follow up investigation will be done.
If it is the gun that was reported stolen, an attempt will be mad to recover it. But then you would have to worry about someone like me. I put guns in gun jail. I'm a NIBIN Examiner. I match shootings to shootings and guns to shootings. If the PD that does the recovery or, any that handle it have a NIBIN Examiner, it will be test fired and entered into the ATF NIBIN system. If it is matched to a shooting it will be healed as Evidence for that case until it is adjudicated.
 
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