Possibly no lead for doves in the future

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waterhouse

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I can't find the article online, but there is one today in the sports section of the Austin paper about how there is a possibility that lead will not be allowed for dove hunting in the future. All quotes below are attributed to Mike Leggett (he's our "Outdoors" -- hunting and fishing writer) of the Austin American Statesman.

"There is talk -- preliminary to be sure, nothing set in stone -- of requiring non-toxic shot for all migratory birds."

Someone in Missouri did some "research" where I guess they fed some pen raised birds some lead and the birds died.

"Typically, the smaller the shot, the less efficient steel becomes, which means biologists would have to determine whether wounding rates would increase with steel shot . . ."

They are planning on setting up a double blind study to do testing, and the article mentions several times that the decision is pretty far in the future, but it is a possibility that dove loads will be $12-15 a box if they have to switch to steel.
 
Good Lord, I hope they don't. That will surely stink. A teeny tiny pellet like that just can't maintain any kind of velocity.
 
Few would hunt doves with steel. The new non-toxic stuff performs better than lead, anyway.

It's the price of the stuff that's scary.
 
Can you imagine paying 20 bucks for 10 rounds of Remington heavy shot to shoot DOVES with???? :rolleyes: I'll cheat.

IMHO, steel shot laws in the MARSH were stupid. It's beginning to get ridiculous. I've heard of banning lead in fishing weights, banning it from range use, outdoors or in, and regulating lead casting by individuals and licensing the sale of it. :rolleyes: That's just what the world needs, more government control. Friggin' Romans made WATER PIPE out of it, but now we can't shoot it at doves?:rolleyes:

I can guarantee the cripple rate will increase. It surely did on geese, though Ducks didn't suffer quite so much since they die easier and tend to decoy closer. 6 shot will carry pretty well, but there ain't a lot in a pattern at 40 yards compared to 7 1/2 lead. Guess I'll have to get an Ultimag to hunt dove with....:rolleyes:
 
Link / Article

http://www.statesman.com/sports/content/sports/stories/outdoors/02/23legcol.html

MIKE LEGGETT: OUTDOORS

Feds mull non-toxic shot for dove hunting

Thursday, February 23, 2006

If the thought of $5-a-box premium dove loads is scary to you, wait until you get an earload of this.

There is talk — preliminary, to be sure, nothing set in stone — of requiring non-toxic shot for all migratory birds.

That box of 25 shotgun shells you stuff into your vest on opening day could suddenly cost $12 to $15 if that happens. Let's not even talk about .410 or 28 gauge that cost $9 to $10 a box now or the fact that the average dove hunter requires five shells to kill just one dove. You do the math.

There's no timetable for the change. There's not even a proposal, according to Jay Roberson, Texas Parks and Wildlife's dove program leader. But there have been some rumblings about a switch, and Parks and Wildlife plans to discuss the issue at an upcoming meeting of its Game Bird Advisory Committee.

"It's way, way early," Roberson said. "There are so many other issues out there right now." Land fragmentation, habitat loss, even the continued encroachment of white-winged doves into mourning dove territory are current issues that need to be studied and dealt with, he said. However, steel shot is going to be the one that gets most people's attention.

"There are some studies going on now in Missouri on penned birds where they were fed a certain number of lead shot," Roberson said. "They've found that if they ingest even a small number of shot, they have a very low survival rate."

Roberson went on to point out that depending on what the bird's diet is at any given time, some doves will pass the shot directly on through their systems, rather than grind it up in their gizzards, where it can reach their bloodstream and exact a deadly toll. "One problem is that it may not show up in dead birds in the field because they get weak and picked of by predators," Roberson said.

When all states were forced to comply with non-toxic shot rules for waterfowl in the late 1980s, there was considerable evidence about how much damage the pellets did in areas where shooting was frequent and bird populations were high. Doves aren't hunted the same way, and it's going to be much harder to figure out just how much of a threat there is from lead shot.

Some states already are requiring non-toxic shot for dove hunters on wildlife management areas and even at some shooting ranges where lead buildup has been a problem. But that isn't full scale all-steel shooting, though, which would really hit hunters hard financially.

"It would kill dove hunting," said Joe McBride of McBride's Guns in Austin. "Remington makes a target load steel shot for gun ranges that costs $8 to $9 a box to retailers. We have to sell it for $12 to $15 a box."

Nobody even makes a dove load right now, he said, though that should change if there was a mandatory switch to non-toxic shot. Those loads would be steel, though, since tungsten and other non-toxic shot are just too expensive to be shooting dozens of shells at a time.

Remington Hevi-shot, for instance, currently retails for about $22 to $25 for a 10-round box. That's acceptable for turkeys or even ducks but prohibitive for doves.

Roberson said the real answer for dove hunting lies in scientifically sound studies, both on dove populations and on non-toxic shot. "We need better information on survival rates and recruitment rates of mourning doves," he said. "But we have to look at the availability and efficiency of non-toxic shot."

Typically, the smaller the shot, the less efficient steel becomes, which means biologists will have to determine whether wounding rates would increase with steel shot, Roberson said. And there could be a negative impact on hunting altogether, which could render any survival improvement nil if hunters aren't spending money and thus keeping funding on track for habitat and research.

"We're poised to do that work because it's imperative that we do it," Roberson said. It also makes sense for Texas to do its own lead shot study, too, because of the sheer numbers of whitewings and mourning doves that live here. "We need to set up a double-blind study that would give us that information," Roberson said. "There's no sense in doing it any other way."

[email protected]

>< >< ><

Personal Thoughts:

Mods may consider this over in Reloading Forum for a bit.

I recall when non-toxic shot was being "considered" for Migratory Waterfowl. Do a search for "NILO Farms" for starters. "NILO" is "OLIN" -like in Winchester -, spelled backwards.

I do NOT recommend Steel, Bismuth IMO is the way to go.
My /otheres experiences with it in T&E and uses for Ranges going to non-toxic shot, and those areas requesting non-toxic shot adjacent to areas with Waterfowl. This kept folks from getting tripped up if stumbled onto wrong area with Waterfowl and having lead shot for Skeet/ Trap and small game hunting.

WE saw that "leg sticking out there" and we didn't get tripped by it either. Ammo checked and we were using Bismuth for small game and Clay shooting.
Ticks a Federale off something awful too. :)

Especially when the gate was closed and one had to enter/ exit a certain way. Nice try...we recon'd ahead of time and out "thunk" 'em.

Do you realize how many folks get tripped up? How come so many folks are at G&F Auctions? Bidding to get back firearms that have been in the family...got popped and guns, vehicles, boats and such confiscated.



-Folks we need to keep tabs on Gubmint - period.
-We need to improve on and continue to be ever watchful of Regulations which can trip us up. Get enough points and hunting privileges can be suspended in some areas depending on regulations.
-Hunters as a whole can be tainted with Negative Media Reports. These matters affect us ALL - even those that do not participate in dove hunting, hunting, or shotguns for whatever purpose.
-This is NOT a "Us vs Them" We must continue to be United in Responsible Firearm Ownership.
-If one needs to get proper instructions to be a better shotgunner - do it!
-Continue to BA/UU/R
-One CANNOT buy skill and targets (game shots)
-Reloading Bismuth for instance not only will better tailor a load for YOUR Gun, For YOUR tasks ( type of dove hunting) also allows you to continue using that classic old gun that steel shot will ruin.
-Not to mention for the monies , better loads, less shells used per bird.
-Got kids, family? No better way to be Responsible Firearm Owner than to turn off the TV, Pass Forward Reloading, and discussing Responsible Firearm Ownership while reloading, Patterning guns...the whole passing forward experience.

It is my belief , one method of "discouraging" new shooters and hunters, is to make it more of a hassle.

WE already have generations not growing up with firearms in the household, never learning woodscraft, hunting and fishing...etc.
Meddling and Mindwashing by Public Schools and Media, and so many other others reasons.

Get together with other Responsible Firearm Owners, teach the kids about hunting and habitat, reloading, shooting, hunting, hunter safety.

Returns are greater than the investments.

Regards,

Steve
 
There's no threat to dove populations around here. The things are getting to be as thick as urban pigeons downtown. Too bad they're out of season. The dog loves to eat 'em.

I don't care a lot for the meat. I'd eat it if I were hungry.

I've heard that there are ways to get it to taste better, like brining.

Anyone do that?
 
Dove meat is quite mild compared to waterfowl. I like to wrap it with a chunk of bacon and shishkabob it on the grill. Yummy.

Bismuth? You're now wanting me to pay $50 a box to hunt DOVE? :what: Bwaaaaaa, ha, ha, yeah, right! No thanks, I'll just hunt my own property and if a game warden looks like he's about to come on my property, I'm shooting rabbits. It's remote, only one way in, 4x4 road, and I can keep an eye on the paved road. I mean, I've never seen a game warden down there anyway.

When things went steel on waterfowl, I bought a different shotgun, one that could handle it. I started shooting steel. I did hunt that first couple of seasons with lead under my waders and steel in my shell pouch for the game warden, even got checked once...:D Yes sir, I'm legal! Actually, no reason I couldn't do that again. Just have to stash the lead in the weeds and go for loads as needed, or figure something out like that. What it will do is keep me from hunting on public areas. I'll just have to be content with my own property for birds. There is occasionally some good hunting down there. I was on a sunflower planting binge for a while down there, but sorta slacked off on that.

If I wanna hunt a public area, I'll have to hunt with steel. Heavy shot, bismuth, even Federal tungsten-iron ain't in my dove hunting future. I buy the stuff for the occasional goose hunt, but I ain't exactly a rich man. If they were to pass this, it'd just eliminate a lot of people from dove hunting IMHO. It almost killed duck hunting. Lots of people quit duck hunting. I, OTOH, couldn't give up my waterfowl. I don't hunt dove that much anyway. Had a good bird lease a couple of years ago, but dropped it cause I lost my job. I haven't held a job in two years. Got some income from investments, but it just pays the bills. I had to cut back on extravagances while I tried to figure out how to make a living. I've sorta sputtered at that, but I'm still working on it.
 
Thing is, a study done at the range in Blackburg, VA, where my friends and I have held "Range Day" a few times (25 vets/mil/cops with 120 guns, from custom EAA pistols to Thompsons to ARs to classic bolts, 4 SF writers and our fans. I think we were responsible for one ton of the eight tons of lead they found:D ) showed ZERO lead in the water table or plants. Unless you have REALLY acidic water, the lead just sits there...gee, kinda like it does in NATURAL LEAD DEPOSITS, eh?

Sure, if you actually ingest lead, it's toxic. Even in marsh, how many animals ingest how many pellets? Near zero.:banghead:
 
Wow, this is plain stupid. Lead is not that toxic in its elemental form. I think all the people alive today with bullets in them can attest to that. Sure it may suck to have that hunk of lead in you, but it is not as bad as some people make you think.
 
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