Post-Victory Model .38 (?)

[theq]

Hi all,

I found a thread from back in 2003 where some people were trying to identify their victory model smith and wesson revolvers, but it didnt really help - I seem to have some sort of exeption. I bought this revolver deactivated (theyre illegal live in the UK), and its a really nice peice to add to my collection, however im having some trouble finding out more about it, even after this page:http://www.coolgunsite.com/pistols/victory_model_smith_and_wesson.htm
By deactivated all that is done, is the firing pin is filed down and the chambers have a discreet ring half way through to stop rounds, otherwise its iintact.

The deactivation certificate says:
Type and make: Revolver - S&W "Victory"
Number: 908522
Calibre/Chamber Length: .38"
Country of Origin: USA

However, these are the markings on the pistol:

at the end of the handle, next to the swivel: 908522 WB P
on the side of the barrel: 38 S&W CTG
on the top: Uninted States Property
right hand side, under the barrel: Made in USA
serial number also on the front of the chambers

What is really odd, is that for a supposed "Victory model" (im assuming the proof house that deactivated it know what theyre talking about), it has no "V" prefix, and also from what I gather the number of victory models made was around 800 000, so surely the serial number cannot be 908522?

I cant see any other marks so far, but i may not be looking in the correct place - does anyone have any idea?

thanks,

theq

 

[XavierBreath]

Sir,
It appears you own a S&W Model K-200 also known as a .38/200 British Service Revolver. The WB is an inspector's stamp, from Ordnance officer Waldemar Bromberg. The P is proof it passed military proof testing. Around 110,000 K-200s were loanded/leased to the British prior to the adoption of V prefix serial numbers. Your serial number, 908522, falls within that range. While technically not a "Victory" because it lacks the V prefix, your revolver was no doubt accepted for military use. It is a wartime revolver in .38S&W.

 

[Old Fuff]

X-Breath is correct. Smith & Wesson introduced their Military & Police Model in 1899 at serial number 1 (one). They continued on until 1942 when they hit no. 999,999 and the machine that stamped the numbers could go no higher. So they started over a V-1.

Most of the Military & Police revolvers numbered in the upper 700,000's to 999,000 went to England as .38-200 model revolvers.

 

[Old Fuff]

Additional historical information from another thread:

The history of the Smith & Wesson model .38-200 revolver is an interesting one that has been covered extensively in past threads. These can be located by using the forum's search feature.

In 1940 Smith & Wesson for all practical purposes was bankrupt. During the Great Depression they had continued to build revolvers and make parts, even thought those revolvers for the most part weren't selling. While this might seem foolish, their motive was to keep their skilled and valuable work force intact. If they were laid off and moved on they couldn't be easily replaced, and management knew it. But they could only keep this up for so long, and that time was about up.

In desperation they contracted with the British to design and build a 9mm carbine. They had absolutely no experiences with such arms, and the prototypes wouldn’t work with the U.K.’s ammunition. At this point the customer ask the company to refund a one million dollar pre-payment they’d made. Smith & Wesson couldn’t do it, as they’d spent the money, and had no other available funds. To save themselves they offered the British a deal. They would pay the debt in revolvers (sold at a special lower price) rather then money.

There was one problem. What revolvers S&W had on hand were chambered in .38 Special. The British service cartridge – normally used in Enfield and Webley top-break revolvers) was based on the .38 S&W cartridge, loaded with an extra heavy 200 grain bullet, and called the .38-200. So Smith & Wesson proposed to convert .38 Special revolvers they had on hand to .38-200 by reboring the barrels and replacing the cylinders as necessary, or using both new barrels and cylinders.

By now the Germans had conquered most of Europe, including France, and were planning to invade England. Given the circumstances the harried Brits. quickly accepted Smith & Wesson’s proposal and the deal was on.

Production started in March 1940, and by September the firm discontinued its commercial business to concentrate on .38-200 revolvers to the exclusion of others. This situation continued until February 1941, when they got caught up enough to restore some commercial and U.S. government orders. However they continued to make .38-200 revolvers throughout the World War Two period. During this whole period some 568,204 .38-200 revolvers were made.

It is interesting to note that next to the .38 Special cartridge, the .38-200 is the most common chambering found in the Military & Police revolver. Yet it was never cataloged for sale in the United States.

The standard barrel length was 5 inches. However during 1940 and 41 some were made with 4 and 6 inch barrels. With Hitler on the march the British did not quibble about barrel length. After 1942 these revolvers were marked “United States Property” or U.S. Property and sent under the Lend Lease Program, rather then being purchased directly as the earlier guns had been.

After the United States entered the war following the bombing of Pearl Harbor on December 7, 1941 this country found itself facing a serious shortage of handguns. As a result many .38-200 revolvers were diverted, and rather then sent to England or her Commonwealth countries, spent the war in holsters worn by security and plant guards at U.S, manufacturing factories.

A substantial number were also sold(?) to the O.S.S, the U.S. Army’s clandestine service during the war. For what reason the “spooks” need these revolvers is still not publicly known.

Following World War Two, during the middle 1950’s, these revolvers were declared surplus by the British Army, and many – if not most – were exported back to the United States. Unfortunately, because the .38 S&W cartridge wasn’t popular a substantial number were rechambered to .38 Special. These are usually marked on the side of the barrel, “.38 S&W Ctg.” And elsewhere, .38 Special. Both cartridges can be fired in the rechambered revolvers, but split cases and poor accuracy are often the result. It is most advisable not to shoot Plus-P cartridges of any kind in these revolvers, and some will go so far as to say they shouldn’t be shot at all. Be that as it may, they have a lot of interesting history behind them.

 

[theq]

wow, thanks very much for your really quick and informed responses. This is really interesting, I appreciate this help greatly