Powder and Primer storage

[SlowFuse]

I just brought home three cases and am planning on storing primers, powder etc in them. I have two Pelican 1610 carry-on style rolling cases that are 21x16x10 internal and a large Pelican 0500 35x18.5x25.

Any issue storing powder and primer in these? They all have the atmosphere vent which makes me think good to go but also have proper o-ring seals around them. I've heard of tight sealed powder containers turning into pretty much bombs in a fire. But, theyre plastic so again I'd think the container would melt before holding pressure.

Anyone stored components in a similar case??

 

[Allen One1]

I have heard the stories too and I tend to believe them, if you heat a loaded shell it will go off, if the plastic would melt first and relieve the pressure I don't know. For me I'm going to continue storing powder and primers in an open area, it may burn hot but it isn't going to turn into a bomb. I also have a fire sprinkler right above the storage area which may help if it comes to that.

 

[edwardware]

You want to avoid three things: moisture, heat, and containment.

Moisture and heat should be obvious.

Containment us the difference between an extended whoosh and a BOOM that blows the roof off. SAAMI publishes guidelines for building just such a frangible magazine; you want to protect the contents from the fire as long as possible, but absolutely avoid building any pressure during combustion.

A Pelican case seems like enormous overkill, and it may build more pressure than I'd like.

 

[troy fairweather]

i was in many house fires before with ammo, i seen a ammo can cook with 9mm it just bounced around. one can with powder after the fire was over, the powder lit but the little air in the can was used up and the powder was smothered. had some shot gun shell go off and shot hit me, they had no power.

 

[lightman]

I would not think a Pelican case would cause problems. It is probably overkill. I store my powder and primers on an open shelf in my loading room. Out of direct sunlight and in a temperature controlled environment.

 

[stringnut]

i was in many house fires before with ammo, i seen a ammo can cook with 9mm it just bounced around. one can with powder after the fire was over, the powder lit but the little air in the can was used up and the powder was smothered. had some shot gun shell go off and shot hit me, they had no power.

Can you explain how the powder could light and be smothered from lack of air? Both smokeless and black powder produce everything they need to combust. If they didn't cartridges and explosives would not work. There is no air in cartridges for the powder to use when it burns. From what I understand powder will be affected by high heat and not ignite because it has not reached its combustion temperature.

 

[edwardware]

Can you explain how the powder could light and be smothered from lack of air?. . .

As you point out, that's can't be exactly what happened. Likely the powder was degraded by heating to a temperature below the ignition temp, but still hot enough to oxidize much or all of the carbon (and use up all the available oxygen) and reduce the particle size. The end result looks a a lot like rapid combustion, it just takes longer at a lower temp.

Recall using an oven to burn off organics in college chemistry; there's no flame, but anything that can be oxidized turns to ash.

 

[Walkalong]

Smokeless powder needs pressure to burn well (Which is why we store it in containers with a weak side), without being contained in a chamber it barely burns while still in the case and the bullet pops harmlessly out of the case.

 

[thomas15]

Store your powder in a wood box per NFPA guidelines.

 

[George P]

My powder sits in their bottles/jugs on a shelf on my reloading bench inside my house. The next shelf holds my 20K primers or various types. If in a climate controlled environment, no additional storage requirement is necessary as far as keeping the quality goes.

 

[roval]

i store my powders on top of my bookshelf and a shelf inside my closet. i think a large cooler would work quite well. can even have wheels for easy lugging about and the lid should easily pop off from any pressure build up and easy to move out of the house in case of a fire. can keep lid off as well.

 

[Walkalong]

keep lid off as well.

Just make sure it doesn't latch, that will be the weak side.

 

[KWOOD]

So, is it safe to keep in the garage?

 

[Walkalong]

Safe? Yes, unless there is a gas water heater or other heat source. But of course you wouldn't put it near those.

That said, it will last longer in a cooler drier spot. Mine is in the "reloading" room. Kids are moved out.

 

[George P]

Store your powder in a wood box per NFPA guidelines.

IF you have that much that the regs then say you should.

 

[horsemen61]

I just leave mine on a shelf in the reloading room

 

[reddog81]

I googled those case descriptions to see what they look like and the retail price for those is over $1,000 in containers. Personally I just store my powders on a shelf in the basement. If it were me I’d sell the containers and buy more powder and primers.

 

[bluetopper]

I store mine in my reloading room adjacent to my garage. It’s temperature controlled only when I’m in there.

 

[SlowFuse]

@reddog81 I agree with you and others that have said its overkill. I got these free from my job. They have spent the past 5 or so years protecting expensive audio and video equipment and they retired them to buy new ones. So, thats why they have been purposed for this. I dont travel enough to have a need for cases like these so I automatically thought storage solution! What do I have a lot of that I want to protect?? Powder and primers!

 

[Mostly Lead]

SAAMI seems to be a good resource: https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/Info-Doc-Smokeless-Powder.pdf

From a section copied from the NFPA:
11-3.7 Smokeless propellants intended for personal use in quantities not exceeding 20 lb. (9.1 kg) shall be permitted to be stored in original containers in residences. Quantities exceeding 20 lb. (9.1 kg), but not exceeding 50 lb. (22.7 kg), shall be permitted to be stored in residences where kept in a wooden box or cabinet having walls of at least 1 in. (25.4 mm) nominal thickness.

 

[brewer12345]

I would not put that stuff in a case. Safer to leave it out in the open.

The quantities I have in excess of fire code limits of 10k primers and 20 ,pounds of powder. Are in a shed away from the house. If the shed goes up in flames and is a total loss, well, it is a crappy shed I would like to replace.

 

[Iroquois]

I store my primers in my safe, I store my powder in a locked steel cabinet ( older kids, but you never know about their friends ). I like the idea of them being separate. Both of these are in a controlled inside environment and both have ventilation. I have never had any issues with this storage system with powder or primers going bad.

 

[9mmepiphany]

cabinet having walls of at least 1 in. (25.4 mm) nominal thickness.

If you couple the above with a desire to have them in a temperature and humidity controlled environment...and also want a "weak side" to relieve pressure in case of high heat...in your garage, consider a non-functioning refrigerator.

It is thick enough, is designed to control temp and humidity, and has a non-latching door as the weak side.

It allows you to separate your primers (in the freezer portion) and your powder (in the frig portion), plus it allows easy access

 

[bobinoregon]

I just use a Cedar Chest in a closet for the primers. I may have a lot of them in there

 

[hdwhit]

slowfuse wrote:
"...theyre plastic so again I'd think the container would melt before holding pressure."

No.

It's too early in the morning for me to go into the physics involved (i.e. how long a plastic must be exposed to a temperature before melting versus how long an explosive has to be exposed to a temperature before detonating) but suffice it to say the National Fire Code requires storage of powder and primers in magazines constructed of wood not more than one inch nominal thickness for a reason.