I was wondering what might be the optimal powder for a shorter barreled AR load in the 14.5” range. I kinda want an M4 size rifle. The original loading was for a 20” barrel. If I pull the trigger for a 14.5” or 16” barrel, what powders work better for that length using 55 or 62 grain FMJ bullets?
Powder Choice for 14.5” Barrel
- Thread starter DMW1116
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243winxb
Member
I used IMR 4198 With my 14.5" Only because i got the most rounds per pound.
M16A1 -
Check Hodgdon's Pistol Data for- Barrel Length: 15"
M16A1 -
Check Hodgdon's Pistol Data for- Barrel Length: 15"
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Charlie98
Member
+1
I use the same powders for my 16" as I do my 20"... it's a no brainer. Having said that, I don't generally use slower powders like Varget. Most anything in the H335/W748/TAC burn range should be fine for general purpose handloads. Now, if you are going to suppress, or are looking for some special purpose load... then all bets are off, the rifle will have to dictate.
CoalCrackerAl
Member
H335 and TAC fan here too. I find they are better than CFE 223. For accuracy.
AJC1
Member
What is the metric for better... if velosity is the metric, exactly the same powders. If you want less muzzle blast, flash, subsonics, or charge burn effiency then something faster will be better. What good better, best are you looking for?
AJC1
Member
The highest pressure wave from start to exit will give the highest velosity, no regard to barrel length. You cannot overcome a shorter barrel with a different powder.
FROGO207
Member
Yep, TAC for the win LOL! That is what I am using for my 12 inch barrel.
TAC is my current powder for 55 grain FMJ. It outshot H335 by a decent margin with 10-shot groups. AR Plus has basically the same accuracy, but I'm probably giving up some velocity. I wasn't pushing it too hard and haven't confirmed accuracy yet. That's fine though, since AR Plus was about 25% cheaper.
AJC1
Member
The more one shoots, the more important the economy. I hear back in the old days one could get 25lb kegs of powder....
2ndtimer
Member
TAC is my “go to” for all things AR .223/5.56 related, including my son’s AR pistol/SBR. I recently picked up a pound of AR Plus along with 2 pounds of SW Tactical to try with 55 and 62 gr bullets just to see how they compare to TAC. (Always good to have options, especially if they are more budget friendly).
My plan this weekend is to try some SW Tactical Rifle and RMR 69 gr HPBTCT. For the possible shorter barreled rifle I’d go with the cheapest powder that would shoot 55 & 62 grain FMJ bullets.
I was originally thinking maybe a faster powder would loose less velocity from a shorter barrel but that may have been misguided thinking.
I was originally thinking maybe a faster powder would loose less velocity from a shorter barrel but that may have been misguided thinking.
Charlie98
Member
What John says is correct... the powder that produces the most velocity will continue to produce the most velocity in a shorter barrel. But. There is a point of diminishing returns. A slower powder, for example, very often will generate significant muzzle blast, and/or a poor burn (dirty.) I found that out with my 20" Browning in .348WCF. I originally started with H4831... but it sounded like an artillery piece going off. I switched to IMR3031, a much faster powder, and I not only don't upset everyone on the firing line, I got better SD numbers... because the powder had a better burn characteristic in the shorter barrel. H4831 may be the cat's meow in a 24" rifle barrel, but it was a dead duck in the 20" I had a similar revelation with my 16" M1a.
I did a "half bummed" test last summer with some of my 62gr blaster loads with different powders out of curiosity. I used Benchmark, SW AR Plus, SW Tactical Rifle, AA2230, TAC, X-Terminator, and PP Varmint. All lost between 180-200fps going from the 16"to the 12.5", so pretty consistent loss. I know there's not a huge spread in burn speed between those powders, but the velocity difference I found was negligible. I am curious if it'll change much if I go way to the slow end of the burn range for the 62's, I do have some PP200MR and Leverevolution I can try...
GeoDudeFlorida
Member
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- Dec 1, 2020
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Ummm not to burst any bubbles but “back in the day” you could get a 55gal drum of powder. You would probably have to pick it up yourself, though. There was no FedEx or UPS.
There are lots of good reasons to load special for a short barrel. Minimizing velocity loss isn’t one of them. The same powder that gives the best velocity numbers in a rifle barrel will give the best velocity numbers in a pistol barrel. I proved that to myself with a 10” Contender barrel in .30-30 years ago. Muzzle blast and cost are good reasons to switch up the loads. But rifle powder in a rifle cartridge beats pistol powder in a rifle cartridge. Every time.
Bcwitt
Member
You can actually equil long barrel velocitys. Once.
N555
Member
I have a short boi I'll eventually put together.
My 2 main powder choices are h322 and RE7, but this is going to be like an xm177 with 10.5 barrel and a real form4 xm177 pseudo silencer.
My 2 main powder choices are h322 and RE7, but this is going to be like an xm177 with 10.5 barrel and a real form4 xm177 pseudo silencer.
Ironicaintit
Member
I run 3031, regardless of barrel length. Though my most accurate load is with IMR 4198
P Flados
Member
I run lots of Quickload "what ifs". A 14.5" barrel will be closer to "optimum" with powders a notch or two faster than a 20" barrel. This is for both maximum velocity at a given chamber pressure and for keeping muzzle blast no worse than needed. However, all typical 223 powders will work pretty good in a 14.5".
For 55 GR, here is how Quickload ranks powders with respect to potential velocity at close to SAAMI max pressure.
And although SW Tactical is not in my version of Quickload, it is is the right burn rate range (very close to BL-C2, H335, 748, Reloader 10), and I have noted it is one of the least overpriced powders available from on-line sources.
For 55 GR, here is how Quickload ranks powders with respect to potential velocity at close to SAAMI max pressure.
And although SW Tactical is not in my version of Quickload, it is is the right burn rate range (very close to BL-C2, H335, 748, Reloader 10), and I have noted it is one of the least overpriced powders available from on-line sources.
Code:
Cartridge : .223 Rem. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .224, 55, Hornady FMJ-BT w/c 2267
Useable Case Capaci: 26.532 grain H2O = 1.723 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.260 inch = 57.40 mm
Barrel Length : 14.5 inch = 368.3 mm
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
25 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 88%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Winchester 748 99.9 26.3 1.70 2888 91.2 52000 12733 0.742 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 100.5 23.9 1.55 2878 95.0 52000 12271 0.741 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant AR-Comp *C *T 102.0 24.1 1.56 2870 98.7 48418 12381 0.764 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-10x *C 97.9 22.6 1.46 2867 98.1 52000 12019 0.756 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 94.8 25.3 1.64 2864 93.6 52000 12323 0.746 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 200 *C 94.0 22.5 1.46 2852 98.7 52000 11877 0.771 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 102.0 27.2 1.76 2852 89.2 50728 12674 0.757 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4198 96.5 21.2 1.37 2846 98.9 52000 11250 0.737 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2015 100.8 23.6 1.53 2846 97.3 52000 11851 0.762 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 *C 100.1 24.6 1.59 2844 90.2 52000 12193 0.748 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Wild Boar 102.0 26.7 1.73 2839 87.5 51587 12320 0.749 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-12 99.8 24.9 1.61 2838 95.0 52000 11831 0.747 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 98.1 25.8 1.67 2831 91.5 52000 12140 0.765 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.5 98.4 25.8 1.67 2831 91.5 52000 12140 0.765 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208 XBR 102.0 24.9 1.62 2830 90.0 51838 12025 0.750 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 102.0 26.3 1.70 2830 91.6 49332 12488 0.774 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.4 96.5 25.3 1.64 2822 91.4 52000 11919 0.760 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-7 91.2 21.6 1.40 2820 98.6 52000 11276 0.757 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N120 *C 94.5 21.1 1.37 2816 100.0 52000 10521 0.752 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N130 *C 100.1 22.9 1.48 2813 97.9 52000 11242 0.754 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2200 91.7 22.8 1.48 2812 92.8 52000 11547 0.748 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N125 *C 89.1 20.2 1.31 2812 100.0 52000 10505 0.752 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2230 97.3 25.8 1.67 2809 89.1 52000 11804 0.758 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Benchmark 100.3 24.2 1.57 2798 91.3 52000 11531 0.752 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator *C 98.5 25.7 1.67 2795 87.8 52000 11686 0.754 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4198 92.6 21.3 1.38 2793 94.9 52000 11014 0.742 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 102.0 24.9 1.62 2793 87.6 48612 12219 0.776 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC *C 100.9 26.6 1.72 2786 83.6 52000 11707 0.754 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 102.0 24.4 1.58 2768 94.7 44701 12591 0.833
Norma 202 *C 102.0 24.5 1.59 2764 91.9 46813 11920 0.789 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex D073.6 102.0 25.7 1.67 2751 90.1 45360 12136 0.805
Lovex S060 102.0 24.3 1.57 2751 87.7 50393 11245 0.762 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 *C 102.0 24.4 1.58 2721 88.1 46417 11682 0.806
IMR 3031 102.0 23.3 1.51 2712 92.1 41295 12069 0.825
IMR 4895 102.0 24.9 1.62 2702 84.2 43310 11949 0.816
Vihtavuori N133 *C 102.0 22.8 1.48 2701 95.2 45651 10845 0.793
Vihtavuori N540 *C 102.0 25.2 1.63 2687 90.3 43490 11548 0.815
Ramshot Big Game 102.0 26.6 1.72 2675 82.5 43236 11634 0.811
Hodgdon CFE223 *C 102.0 27.2 1.76 2669 80.3 43324 11651 0.810
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AJC1
Member
I look a little at percentage burnt. I'd be favoring 10x or AR Comp based on that list... how do you pick...
P Flados
Member
I actually switched to mil-surp for much of my powder shopping a few years back. For 223 I have several 8# jugs of WC 844 (mil-surp version of H335), so this is all just "what if" for me.
The percent burn means less to me than other things. I do like looking at muzzle pressures, but for this case all the top choices are going to be brutal for blast. I like the percent fill and lower chamber pressure of AR Comp and BL-C2. If I was using either of these, I would probably load some dummy rounds at different compression amounts to get a feel for the force required. I do not like putting too much into squeezing power down. With that done, I would then load a ladder to see how the loads behave. I am not into chasing the last fps available so I might stop closer to 100% fill.
The AR comp is one of the "new & improved" powders, but I am not sure I would want to pay the extra cost to get the improvements. There are also availability issues that can make a big difference.
Again, as someone who reloads in bulk with just a powder measure, I like the metering provided by ball powders.
Having said all of the above, I would expect any of the top 15 shown above to work just fine for 95% of all 223 shooters. With some "blind testing" of sample loads, few would easily be able to tell much difference.
Now, a given gun may be picky or not (none of my 223s are). A picky gun may only like a given powder or bullet. I do not think there is any way to predict that in advance.
The percent burn means less to me than other things. I do like looking at muzzle pressures, but for this case all the top choices are going to be brutal for blast. I like the percent fill and lower chamber pressure of AR Comp and BL-C2. If I was using either of these, I would probably load some dummy rounds at different compression amounts to get a feel for the force required. I do not like putting too much into squeezing power down. With that done, I would then load a ladder to see how the loads behave. I am not into chasing the last fps available so I might stop closer to 100% fill.
The AR comp is one of the "new & improved" powders, but I am not sure I would want to pay the extra cost to get the improvements. There are also availability issues that can make a big difference.
Again, as someone who reloads in bulk with just a powder measure, I like the metering provided by ball powders.
Having said all of the above, I would expect any of the top 15 shown above to work just fine for 95% of all 223 shooters. With some "blind testing" of sample loads, few would easily be able to tell much difference.
Now, a given gun may be picky or not (none of my 223s are). A picky gun may only like a given powder or bullet. I do not think there is any way to predict that in advance.
