USMCs new open tip 5.56 MK318 SOST round, question.

[LeeAdama]

Well I don't know.
Here is Federals website, but my computer isn't having much luck using it.

http://www.federalpremium.com/products/rifle.aspx

BTW: Note the similiarty of the Federal Trophy-Tip bullet construction to your "special" bullet link. Looks just like it with the plastic tip removed.

rc

Well if the powder in the MK318/319 is anything like the Superformance from Hornady, the kind of powder charge from Hornady would be similar to Federal if they are using that new improved propellant or whatever.

So the MK318 would have the same powder charge as the M855 but all of the powder would be burned at the end of the muzzle is that correct?

 

[BsChoy]

Well, you can think that if you want too.

But we are not going to fill the pipeline with HP ammo we can't use if we get an urgent call to go somewhere and fight that did sign it.

Right now there is a long standing prohibition against using expanding HP bullets outside CONUS.
I don't see that changing anytime soon.

You can expect the U.S. Military to adhere to the Rules of Land Warfare, anywhere, anytime, against anyone.

There may be exceptions applyed to SpecOp units for special operations against high-jackers and such.

But GI Joe is not going to be issued HP ammo in this lifetime I betcha.

RCmodel, The convention states this in no uncertain terms. I understand what you're saying about resupply and ammo already in service but there are many more countries now that didn't sign that convention and I think the probability of using ammunition of this type would be a certainty especially if the US is going to keep using the 5.56 NATO cartridge.

I memory serves the .50 cal round was only to be usedon structures and other peices of "material" and not humans now its common place for a sniper to use against ANY target. Rules change.....its all in the articulation.

 

[Owen]

They are using the same justification for these that they are using for the SMK bullets bullets used in MK262 and M118LR.

 

[counterclockwise]

Well, something ain't right. I am going to wait on gelatin tests and see how much of a fragmenter it really is. The salesman hype says it "does not rely on yaw", but is a fragmenter, but handles barriers and is like a bear claw, but core is not bonded and it goes fast? ? ?

 

[JShirley]

rc,

While I agree with your interpretation of the Hague Conventions- which the US typically follows- the Marines are issuing this ammo. Which they specifically say fragments more reliably.

John

 

[LiveLife]

rcmodel:
Recently, several ammo manufactures have been using specially blended and/or deterrent coated powder to improve performance in old standard calibers.

It is done by producing a longer burn time without exceeding max allowable peak pressure of older powders.

Hmmmm. This is interesting.

At first, I also thought faster burning powder, to produce higher velocity out of the shorter barrel.

So, slower burning powder with flatter pressure map and less likelihood of pressure spikes?

 

[rbernie]

Right now there is a long standing prohibition against using expanding HP bullets outside CONUS.
I don't see that changing anytime soon.

You can expect the U.S. Military to adhere to the Rules of Land Warfare, anywhere, anytime, against anyone.

There may be exceptions applyed to SpecOp units for special operations against high-jackers and such.

But GI Joe is not going to be issued HP ammo in this lifetime I betcha.

More specifically, in 1990 the US Army JAG stated that HP ammo did not violate the Hague restrictions on ammo 'designed to cause unnecessary suffering' and authorized the use of MatchKing HP's for the M118 'special ball' round. That decision rested on the argument that:

Bullet fragmentation is not a design characteristic, however, nor a purpose for use of the MatchKing by United States Army snipers. Wounds caused by MatchKing ammunition are similar to those caused by a fully jacketed military ball bullet, which is legal under the law of war, when compared at the same ranges and under the same conditions.

That being the case, I do not believe that legalities are the issue that have kept FMJ ammo in general service insomuch as logistics and procurement inertia.

According to the Marine Corps Times, the round is seeing general service:

http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2010/02/marine_SOST_ammo_021510w/

 

[Shawn Dodson]

JRSpicer426 writes:

Wait, I thought the new bullets are Federal Bonded Bear Claw bullets without the B-tips.

Mk 318 Mod 0 SOST not a bonded bullet. If it were bonded then it would be a bullet that expands or flattens easily in the human body, and thus unlawful for land warfare.

The lead core of Mk 318 Mod 0 SOST "fragments" in the human body. Penetration is achieved, both in the human body and through light barrier materials, by the copper base core (in a manner similar to Nosler Partition).

 

[243winxb]

See new produce at Hodgdon- Powder- SUPERPERFORMANCE® (available mid January - 2011) Loading DATA > http://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/SuperLever.pdf Also see new produces at Alliant - Power Pro™ Series. Alliant is in control of LC ammo factory, i would look towards Alliant for new 5.56mm powders.
I would guess this has nothing to do about your question. Very old post. New Green Ammo - Failed - http://militarydailynews.com/2010/04/army-wont-field-deadlier-corps-round/

 

[dc.fireman]

JRSpicer426 writes: Mk 318 Mod 0 SOST not a bonded bullet. If it were bonded then it would be a bullet that expands or flattens easily in the human body, and thus unlawful for land warfare.

The lead core of Mk 318 Mod 0 SOST "fragments" in the human body. Penetration is achieved, both in the human body and through light barrier materials, by the copper base core (in a manner similar to Nosler Partition).

From the military daily news link above:

"At 62 grains, they weigh about the same as most NATO rounds, have a typical lead core with a solid copper shank and are considered a variation of Federal Cartridge Co.’s Federal Trophy Bonded Bear Claw round, which was developed for big-game hunting and is touted in a company news release for its ability to crush bone."

Not trying to continue the thread-cromancy, but I do find this a pretty fascinating subject.

a 62 gr. modified BBC round, LC brass, probably a CCI primer and then, the magic 'bulk powder'. Does this mean my grandkids will be able to deer hunt with surplus ammunition?

 

[phoglund]

I see where AIM Surplus is selling the MK318 SOST on their web site for $14.99/20 round boxes as well as by the ammo can (820 rounds). I'd be tempted to pick up a couple of boxes to test...if I had a test protocol that would give me useful information.