USMCs new open tip 5.56 MK318 SOST round, question.

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In all liklihood, the powder is a "bulk" powder and is not available in a "canister" powder.

Bulk powders are developed for commercial and military loading applications and are sometimes blended for specific loads. Each lot is tested in a ballistics lab and the powder charge is adjusted accordingly.

Cannister powders are blended for consistency from one lot to the other and are what reloaders use.

Attempting to guess what a commercial or military powder/load is can lead to erroneous assumptions.

I know this isn't the answer you wanted, but it's the best advice "I" can give from my 47 years of reloading experience.

Fred
 
Wouldn't matter anyway if you can't get the magic bullet with the solid copper base w/ deep driving bands and swaged lead point ATK is using.

And you can't get those either.

rc
 
Kernel said:
LeeAdama,

If your question is, "How can I simulate the performance of MK318 SOST using common commercial components?", then, I think, this forum could provide you with some guidance.
Click to expand...
No not looking at commercial components, I'm asking how does the powder charge of the MK318 compare with the M855 and which has the larger powder charge weight.
 
Wait, I thought the new bullets are Federal Bonded Bear Claw bullets without the B-tips. Match your velocity with cannister powders and done done and done.
 
To try to answer your question.
The link you posted appears to me to be a Power-Point handout from the Shot Show or something.

I don't think anyone knows what powder, or charge they are going to use, because as far as I can tell, this is a proposal for some experimental ammo under development, nothing more.

It seems very unlikely the U.S. Military is going to adopt any Hollow-Point ammo, unless they repeal the Hague Convention Rules of Land Warfare banning it's use in combat.

rc
 
Kernel said:
LeeAdama,

If your question is, "How can I simulate the performance of MK318 SOST using common commercial components?", then, I think, this forum could provide you with some guidance.
Click to expand...
Actually your right.
 
The Hague conventions only apply to a conflict involving 2 signing countries. This ammunition (if POI can remain the same as M855 or M192?) could be used in the war we have going on right now as we are not fighting a country we are fighting insurgents. If we were fighting a country that didn't ratify the Hague then its rules do not apply either. There are ways around the Hague that smarter men than I have found.
 
Reminds me of when I first went to Vietnam to work on construction as a civilian. My company forbade us to carry weapons, as "Under the Geneva Conventions any civilian not carrying a weapon is considered a non-combatant and won't be harmed." :rolleyes:

We learned the hard way:cuss: that neither the United States nor the VietCong had signed that convention! After that the company security department actually served as an intermediary between soldiers who wanted to sell guns and we civilians. (AK-47s went for $50 to $75 depending on the model. US .45 "grease guns" could be had for $25...but they were unpopular.)
 
If we were fighting a country that didn't ratify the Hague then its rules do not apply either.
Click to expand...
Well, you can think that if you want too.

But we are not going to fill the pipeline with HP ammo we can't use if we get an urgent call to go somewhere and fight that did sign it.

Right now there is a long standing prohibition against using expanding HP bullets outside CONUS.
I don't see that changing anytime soon.

You can expect the U.S. Military to adhere to the Rules of Land Warfare, anywhere, anytime, against anyone.

There may be exceptions applyed to SpecOp units for special operations against high-jackers and such.

But GI Joe is not going to be issued HP ammo in this lifetime I betcha.

rc
 
I did some searching around and I got a reply from someone:

"the propellant was designed to provide optimum performance from a 14 inch barrel carbine. We are getting right around 100 fps higher muzzle velocity from the M4A1 and MK 16 SCAR L than we get with M855. M855 was designed for the M249 SAW which has a 20 inch barrel. It was later adapted for use in M16 (1:7 twist only). You fire a rifle cartridge in a carbine, you loose velocity. You design a cartridge for a carbine, you can gain some velocity back. (some, not all). MK 318 Velocity from a 20 inch barrel is still higher - around 3,025 fps.

As far as charge weights, both M855 and MK 318 are very close (full case capacity). They do not use the same propellant. M855 propellant was designed in the late 70's. MK 318 propellant was designed for the MK 318, and actually the MK 319 (7.62mm SOST big brother)."
 
As stated, the improved propellant would also give higher velocity in a longer barrel too. It is not specific to just a 14.4" barrel.

Whatever powder gives the higest velocity in a long barrel,will also give the highest velocity in a short barrel.

The WC844 type powder used in the M882 ammo is the same WC844 powder developed during the Vietnam war to reduce fouling with the M193 ammo in use at the time.

It was chosen because it fouled less then other ball powders, was cheap to make, could be made in mass quanities with available production facilities of the day, and it provided the desired performance in the M16A1 rifles of the time.

There are several powders available today that will provide better performance then the mil-spec WC844 powder.

Just as there are better barrel steels to make M16 barrels out of.
But they won't change to it, because the steel they always used is "mil-spec", and you just don't change mil-spec, even when something better comes along 50 years later.

rc
 
So its not a faster burning propellant but something else then?
 
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Yes, something else.

Recently, several ammo manufactures have been using specially blended and/or deterant coated powder to improve performance in old standard calibers.

It is done by producing a longer burn time without exceeeding max allowable peak pressure of older powders.

Google Hornady Light Magnum, Hornady Superformance, and Federal High Energy for instance.
(Federal is doing the developemnt of the "special" ammo you linked too in the OP)

http://www.hornady.com/store/Superformance

rc
 
rcmodel said:
Yes, something else.

Recently, several ammo manufactures have been using specially blended and/or deterant coated powder to improve performance in old standard calibers.

It is done by producing a longer burn time without exceeeding max allowable peak pressure of older powders.

Google Hornady Light Magnum, Hornady Superformance, and Federal High Energy for instance.
(Federal is doing the developemnt of the "special" ammo you linked too in the OP)

http://www.hornady.com/store/Superformance

rc
Click to expand...
Nice find very helpful:)

So the charge of the MK 318 is the same a the M855 but has much more effective and better powder.

Makes sense from a logistical standpoint that the overall amount of powder would be the same.

Edit: Powder charges weights for the new ammo are actually higher than standard rounds but does not have any different on noise, recoil or accuracy.

Do you have any similar links for Federal High Energy?
 
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LeeAdama,

Have you tried google, bing or any other search engine? It's a commercial product, you should be more than capable of finding the web pages these commercial companies use to sell their products.

I think you are making to much of a deal about the powder charge weight. It won't be consistent from lot to lot, as they make adjustments to meet the performance spec.
 
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