gdcpony
Member
I give you that. Especially with today's offerings in which my daughter's Axis was $300 and an hour of work and some reloading made it an MOA gun (until it heats up). Add in the PRS offerings that come in at the same price point I built this rifle for and I must give you this point. When I built it, hunting wasn't even the objective with it. Completing the "milk jug challenge" was. It did that so on to better things. I just don't consider this particular rifle a handicap.Feel free to take offense, it wasn't intended, but I'm not going to retract any statement. The "accurizing" you describe to your AR, and then some, was how I paid my bills for several years. After building over 200 AR's myself in the last couple decades, and rebuilding twice as many more, as well as competing in various walks of precision shooting, the AR just doesn't hold up to bolt guns. That's not my opinion, that's reality. I build a couple dozen sub-moa AR's every year still, even after closing my shop, getting a 1/2"-3/4" at 100yrd AR isn't a challenge. But the best precision AR builders in the world don't come close to the precision available in bolt guns.
It has absolutely nothing to do with the loving care you or I or any builder puts into an AR, it's a design issue.
Expand for repliesAnother interesting point the consider. We all posted up some ballpark calculator numbers. We all have different numbers lol. Numbers are different enough to seriously complicate a .5 MOA shot at 500 yards, let alone 1k. Using a typical calulator, like JBM or AB there are MANY parameters that have to be spot on to get you on paper at long distance. Scope height over bore is notable 2", ZERO RANGE can be a big issue 250yds. If your zero is off by .3 inches at 100 yards you can really notice this way out there in your data. Weather conditions change constantly and can really show up at beyond 1k. Heck, many times the given BC for a bullet is incorrect from the manufacturer... that gives you a miss or worse a wounded animal at normal ranges, let alone at extended ranges. No good.
The point I am trying to make here is that the calculators help you, BUT you generally have to tweak things a bit to get everything to line up with your POI. Once you combine that with your ACTUAL field dope you can finally be getting somewhere repeatably. Go shoot A LOT and get things sorted out. The bullet wont lie, but the calculators sometimes do. Once you do that you can start fighting the weather : ). And the shooting is more fun than the hunting so no problem there.
As I stated earlier, I will stick to the pure hardware aspect of this. Shoot game at any distance you can do it reliably. Heck, check out Broz's posts on Rokslide and longrangehunting. He is an absolute beast and can teach you a lot if you take the time. I shoot a few deer ever year out to around 600-650 yards, and I would go further if my land allowed and felt comfortable. This is done with a variety of rifles. 308, 260, 300 mag, and 338 Edge. I have not lost one in 15 years of hunting because I ONLY take the shot I know I can make. I have passed up MANY good deer that I simply did not feel 100 percent comfortable with the conditions of the shot. Simple as that. Hunt long if you want, but do it right for the sake of the animal. I will take Varminterror's advice of working out to the range. Might end up realizing it won't work before then and this load is regulated to say 600yds and under with LR target only.
Thoughts on your platform... If you are shooting consistently under .75 moa with a gasser you are doing very well! Their 2 part recoil makes them tough, for me at least, to really shoot well. I have gassers that shoot as well as most bolt rifles, but they can be difficult to get there compared to a bolt action. Tuning the gas system is vital. You want just enough to reliably eject and chamber. I did play with necksizing a bit since the heavy bolt can chamber them. Good luck getting them back out without shooting though and it required a full stroke. The rifle weighs in at 15# loaded too. That really helps minimize things. It recoils less than any of my .223's and I watch my impacts. Does have a bit of a bite to the guy on the next bench though. lol
More thoughts on the caliber... you do not NEED 1000ftlbs to take a deer. Not even close, but more bullet and more cartridge does indeed tend to work better at extended ranges, provided you can shoot them of course. Mine are suppressed/braked etc, so they are plenty friendly. I would grab the 338 for a 300 yard shot if the conditions warranted it. I don't need it, but man it sure helps. I have never wished for less gun on a long shot or in poor conditions fwiw.
Continue to research bullets as you are. I find the AMAX does well from my rifles on deer at extended ranges (100 to 650 yards, 178amax 308@2650 muzzle,140 amax 260@2800 muzzle), but the Berger offerings tend to do better in the animal and fly a bit better in the wind from what I have experienced, though I have only been shooting them heavily for few years now. The 215 hybrid in 300mag is amazing, and their 140 6.5 offerings are worth you checking out for sure. I will clarify that these bullets favor extended range shots, and that I prefer a good old soft point for anything inside 100 yards for those rifles. I thought about the AMAX. If the ELDX had not been an option and I wasn't worried about the "match" designation on them, I might have tried them. Did in the 123gr variety they had before they went away. And yeah, I would have to carry a mag of the SST load if I was hunting a situation where both a long and short range shot was possible. Or just watch to closer deer get taken by my "spotter" (usually one of my girls).
Congrats on the lever guns! What caliber? I have a twin to that in 4570, and it REALLY smacks the deer lol.Really fun to shoot too. Tough to argue with a 405 WFN smacking the berm downrange. Not a fan of the 325 FTX to save you some fuss maybe... it seems to like a little more velocity than my shoulder does, but then again ymmv there.
30/30 is the other one. My younger daughter wanted us to hunt with twin rifles. I will throw together some 150 gr loads for it. I hope it likes 4320 as I have about 12# of it I picked up on clearance for $15/lb. Minute of pop can at 100 will make me happy.
The 1895 is back for warranty work right now. I already decided against the FTX pill you see pictured. Going to try some 350gr JFP and cast plinking loads in it once it returns. If that doesn't work to my liking (minute of deer at 200yds max) then on to 405 cast loading that seem to do well for others.
Yes, as a bow hunter I know exactly what you mean. It is the one factor I can't control/calculate.My biggest problem with the really long range hunting is that at 1k even with good bullets your talking 1.25 to 1.5 seconds time of flight on a critter capable of moving 40 feet per second.
You can do everything right make the perfect shot and oops the deer just decided to take a step forward.