Powder Suggestions - .38 Special

[wlewisiii]

Ok, first post here. I am just getting started in reloading as my recent purchase of a Taurus 650 snubby has finally busted my ammo budget. While it's .357 capable, I prefer to shoot .38 Special/.38 Special +P instead. I've searched the site but not found quite the information I'm looking for.

I'd like to standardize on one powder to start with. I'm looking to have two loads - one lighter load for plinking/practice and one as my carry load. Both would be lead 158gr bullets: LRN for the light load & LSWCHP FBI load clone. Is there a single powder I can easily use for both purposes?

Load info greatly appreciated as well.

Thanks,

William

 

[Walkalong]

You will really need two different powders for .38 Spl & .357. They operate at much different pressures.

W-231 will work great for .38 Spl, and for light to medium loads in .357.

Unique will work OK in .38 Spl, and push the .357 pretty well, but noe max.

Any powder for use in both calibers will be a compromise on one, the other, or both.

Welcome to THR.

 

[Clarence]

Looking for one powder to produce the best results for light loads and max loads is difficult. For the best results you need a fast burning powder for light loads and a slower burning powder for heavy loads. If you attempt to load slow-burning powder down for light loads you will experience unburned powder and a dirty gun. If you attempt to load fast burning powder for your maximum loads you will get less velocity than can be achieved with slower burning powders.

However, since you are loading for a snubby you should probably be looking for something on the faster side anyway as you won't be able to completely burn heavier charges of slower powders in that short barrel.

I would suggest buying 1 lb of a faster powder and 1 lb of a slower powder. You should be able to get over 1500 rds out of each pound of powder.

2.7 Gr of Bullseye with a 148gr wadcutter is the best plinking load in the .38 Special I have ever used and I've never had a need to load the .38 Special "up" for a SD load so I don't really have a recommendation for you. I just carry Federal Hydrashocks in my 642 BUG rather than worrying about loading for it.

 

[Landric]

I've had excellent luck with HS-6 in .38 Special of +P level loads. For plinkers I prefer Trail Boss. HS-6 works pretty well for magnum loads also, but my preference for magnums is 2400.

Its hard to find one powder that does everything.

 

[jfh]

For both calibers, consider Ramshot's True Blue

It's become my go-to powder for 38 Special. My first testing of it (in 2"-3" barrels) showed a 1.0-gr. wide 'sweet spot', for heaven's sakes. Since then I have loaded it up into 38-CIP pressures, and it produces the best velocity I have in 2" barrels for 158-gr. loads.

Meanwhile, you can load it on up in 357 Magnum as well. Ramshot's latest manual lists recipes for both cartridges. I have not yet developed a firm opinion about it as a 357-case powder, but it has not disappointed me, either.

Jim H.

 

[oneounceload]

I have had good luck over the years, in MY guns, with Unique, Bullseye and Universal Clays. It is nice that both Unique and Universal also work well in my 9mm, my 20 gauges and my 28 gauges

 

[Radaray]

Powders for .38 Spl.

First off, welcome to the post. Now I'm going to give you some information that will vary from that already stated. I think your Taurus is a 605, not a 650, as I have one too, and load it extensively for .38 Spl. both for practice, and more serious endeavors. There is one powder that I have used for both applications for many years, and find it superior to most of the newer powders for this caliber. It is SR4756. It is not touchy about load density and can be used in .357 Magnum cases as well.
The old Speer # 8 loading manual has this to say about SR4756 and the .38 Spl. cartridge: "Dupont' SR4756 is listed only as a shotshell powder in the more powerful loadings, but it has proven to be an excellent propellant for heavy loads in handgun cartridges. One of the best for maximum .38 Special loads." The loads I'm going to give you are above SAMMI specification of today, but have never produced any indications of excessive pressure in my Taurus model 605. BTW, the Speer #8 manual listed a maximum load of SR4756 under a 158 gr. SWC cast bullet at 11.0 grains. My loads are no where near that, but I have safely loaded that charge in my S&W model 28. The loads I will give you here are safe in my 605, and I believe will work for your needs, as well.
For low velocity practice loads using Laser Cast 158gr. cast bullets with CCI-500 primers, you can load 4.4 grains of SR4756. I never load this very often, as it is a very light load. Speer #12 says it will clock in at 862fps out of a 6" barrel. I've never fired this load over my Chrony, but know it is very slow albeit accurate out of my 2" 605. This is the starting load in the Speer # 12, and the maximum they show is 4.8 grains.
The +P load is 7.0 grains of SR4756 using the same Laser Cast bullet and CCI primer. This gives an average velocity of 1055 fps out kof my 605. It produces an average deviation of 13, and a standard deviation of 20.7. It groups very well at 15 yards, produces a sharp recoil, but has no extraction problems, and the primers are only slightly flattened. You may chose to work this load up slowly starting with the above lower charge until you get what you are after. I've used this powder for over 30 years, and have see no significant change over the years in its performance. If you're interested, I also have loads using it in .357 cases, as well.

 

[GP100man]

CLAYS 2.5 grs under a 158 swc 7000 grs per lb. you do the math.

 

[jfh]

With all due respect, Radaray,

I'm going to contradict your advice to consider SR-4756--at least for a novice reloader. The main issues really are

1. the (likely) pressures generated by this powder, and
2. Wide ES swings in chrono testing which show (likely) powder postition issues.​

We've had some commentary in other posts about the Speer #8 loads, and more recently, the current load recommendations by Hodgdon. I also followed closely the S&W forum discussions and contributed my own part to them. Rather than inserting my comments yet another time, you can simply read my comments on the Speer SR-4756 loads here. Here's a summary statement from that post / link:

about pressure: [for their 38 Special loads] Hodgdon's 5.5-gr max is at 17,900 PSI with a 158-gr. XTP, LOA 1.455." For their 357 Magnum 4756 loads, they show a 6.5 gr max at 27,600 PSI with a 158-gr "MEI CASET LSWC .357" LOA 1.620. ​

And, the reason I provide it is because of your comment that "....The (Speer 12) +P load is 7.0 grains of SR4756 using the same Laser Cast bullet and CCI primer.

SR-4756 is an 'interesting powder' for 38/357 load-building, I guess, but there are much more superior powders available. IMO.

Jim H.

 

[wlewisiii]

Thank you for the information, folks. I realize it's difficult to get one powder to do all, I'm exporing the compromises right now. It may be that I'll go differently in the end, but for simplicty & cost I'd prefer to be able to use one powder for all of my loading.

Also, I do only intend to load .38 Special at this point in time. When I add .357 Magnum to the mix, then it will probably require a different powder.

jfh, I'm going to need to look carefully at that True Blue, it sounds like what I might be looking for.

Radaray, it's a Taurus 650 in Stainless Steel. Says so right on the frame.

William

 

[Walkalong]

SR-4756 becomes feasible and very interesting after the point it fills around 80% of the empty space under the bullet.

As jfh alluded to, it suffers from being very position sensitive until around that point of filling 80% or so of the empty space.

I do not recommend it for the beginner either.

I do agree True Blue would be a good compromise powder for you, leaning towards the top .38 Spl loadings & upper, but not max, .357 loads.

A somewhat faster powder would be better if you want to load light .38 Spl stuff.

Throw a couple of scenarios at us, and let us take a stab at suggesting a powder or two for them. ie....38 125 gr at 900 FPS.. or ..158 .357 at 1000 FPS, etc.

What bullet weights and power levels do you want to load to?

 

[soloban]

I like 4.2grs of IMR 700X with a 125gr Hornady XTP seated to the cannulure. Nice, clean, accurate. Same powder and bullet work fine a .357 Magnum with a SP Magnum primer.

 

[bluetopper]

Powder is the cheapest component in reloading. Getting 2 or 3 different ones makes it that much more fun. Don't limit yourself.

If I was going to compromise however, I really like Green Dot, Power Pistol, and Universal.

 

[floydster]

You can read all the posts till u r blue in the face, one powder that will beat them all for 38 Spl. is.

Trail Boss can't be beat

Smokeyloads

 

[Jim Watson]

I have loaded .38 Special with W231 for everything from midrange wadcutters to +P semiwadcutters.
No complaints but it has only been about 35 years.

 

[floydster]

There are new powders on the block, and Trail Boss is one of them.
Smokeyloads

 

[Redneck with a 40]

Unique and Universal.

 

[wlewisiii]

Walkabout, I'm mostly interested in a couple of basic loads - one lighter for lots of shooting & one heavier for CC/SD/HD use. I'd like to put enough rounds downrange this year to get to an acceptable level of competency and I'd like most of them to be the same rather than play the "what's the cheapest box of 50 at the gun shop this paycheck" game Towards this end, I'd like one powder to concentrate on so there is one fewer variable to consider.

As I suggested in my OP, a light load behind a 158 gr. LRN for practice & plinking as well as a FBI Load clone - a 158 gr. LSWCHP at high normal to +P levels.

William

 

[jfh]

Well, regardless of the powder selected,

you would do well to look at the discussion about cylinder / chamber cleaning found in http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=494891.

The issue is the crud ring buildup from shooting 38 Special cartridges in 357 Magnum cylinders.

Even as a novice reloader, you could learn to load a particular recipe you like in 38 cases--and quickly migrate to reloading 357-only cases.

Jim H.

 

[ilmonster]

Well, Hodgdon HP-38 as the name suggests was created for .38 spcl loads. I've loaded it for .38, .44 spcl and 9mm over the last few months (just got into metallic cartridge reloading after years of shotshell reloading) and am real happy with the results. Plenty of load data for HP-38 can be found on Hodgdon's web site.

 

[Walkalong]

As I suggested in my OP, a light load behind a 158 gr. LRN for practice & plinking as well as a FBI Load clone - a 158 gr. LSWCHP at high normal to +P levels.

700X or W-231 will do that for you, although other powders could get you a few more FPS in the +P load. W-231 is a great powder for the beginner.

Since you will end up with more than one powder anyway, you might consider W-231 & Unique. Very versatile in future reloading as well.

The Unique will work well in .357 for you. It can't match AA#9 or W-296 for speed there, but it can do pretty well. It will give you about all the 158 Gr LSWC .38 Spl +P load will do as well.

The W-231 will make great light .38 Spl loads, as well as pretty decent +P .38 and medium power .357 with the lighter bullets.

 

[zxcvbob]

I'm looking to have two loads - one lighter load for plinking/practice and one as my carry load. Both would be lead 158gr bullets: LRN for the light load & LSWCHP FBI load clone. Is there a single powder I can easily use for both purposes?

Bullseye. It's the only powder I know that will do a good job of both. Second choice is American Select, but it's hard to find load data for that one.

 

[The Bushmaster]

WW-231 (.38 Spec and low end .357 mag) and WW-296 (hot .357 mag) or 2400 (moderate .357 mag).

 

[lgbloader]

Unique, bullseye, Trailboss, W231, Clays all have worked well for me.

LGB

 

[joneb]

Is there a single powder I can easily use for both purposes?

Alliant's Bullseye would be my first choice it's great for 38spl and behaves well at higher pressures, and it works very well with lead bullets.