Powder Suggestions - .38 Special
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ArchAngelCD
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If you're looking for only 1 powder for both standard and +P pressure .38 Special rounds using a lead bullet I would have to choose W231/HP-38. If you're willing to use 2 powders I would use W231 for plinking/target loads and HS-6 for the "FBI Load".
I don't care for Unique because it's VERY dirty when loaded light. It needs higher pressures to clean up. Universal will do a better job than Unique over a wider pressure range. I wouldn't try to light load HS-6 either because it will leave a lot of unburnt powder at lower pressures. AA#5 was mentioned above, that will do a good job because it can be loaded on the light side without too much unburnt powder and additional "dirt". BUT, IMO W231 is still the best choice because it's so good at light loads yet still generated good velocity without excessive pressures in the +P rounds. It's a clean accurate powder that's fairly low flash too.
I don't care for Unique because it's VERY dirty when loaded light. It needs higher pressures to clean up. Universal will do a better job than Unique over a wider pressure range. I wouldn't try to light load HS-6 either because it will leave a lot of unburnt powder at lower pressures. AA#5 was mentioned above, that will do a good job because it can be loaded on the light side without too much unburnt powder and additional "dirt". BUT, IMO W231 is still the best choice because it's so good at light loads yet still generated good velocity without excessive pressures in the +P rounds. It's a clean accurate powder that's fairly low flash too.
zxcvbob
Member
I agree with this. (More below)
Not a bad choice, but I'll still disagree
Bullseye outperforms 231 at the upper end without getting squirrely. You get quite a bit higher velocities at the same pressure, and that will be important for the "FBI load", especially from a snubbie. It also works well at the low end, but it burns dirtier at low pressures than most other fast powders. With cast bullets that won't matter much because the bullet lube will burn dirty no matter..38 Spl. powder
Yes, I knew full well that I would get some flak with the loads using SR4756, as there has been more than a little speculation over the chacteristics over this old, and time proven powder. Before I launch into any defense of this, or any other powder, let me set something straight here. I did not state that the Speer #12 maximum load was 7.0 grains. Their max load was given as 4.8grs. The 7.0 grain load is MY load, not Speers.
When the Speer #9 manual came out, there was a great reduction in a lot of charges that were previously given by Speer, besides just SR4756. I contacted Omark Industries about this, and their letter back (which I no longer have) indicated a variety of reasons for this, one of which was due to the lowering of SAMMI specs. This was done about the same time the industry was receiving increasingly bad press over various gun issues. Liability became a more pressing concern.
Another reason given was the advent of new and improved pressure measuring equipment. This "new" equipment revealed information that until this time was not known. I find it rather ironic that some sources still provide pressure readings in copper units of pressure (CUP) and others in PSI.
While they did not "condemn" any currently used powder, they recommended that handloaders follow information given in their latest manuals, and disregard data given in their older manuals. Keep in mind also, the long stated warning that they cannot control the condition of all firearms, especially older guns chambered for the .38 Special cartridge.
With that in mind, I conducted my own tests again with a new lot of SR4756 powder, and loaded them up to the limits I imposed upon myself many years ago. My new data ran very close to that that I had found before. My old Smith 28 still works like new, and the loads that I have given are safe in my 605, which BTW is chambered for .357 magnum. As stated before, I have not found this powder to be load density sensitive.
The original author was looking for a single powder that could be used in the .38 Spl. cartridge as a low velocity practice round as well as a service round. Most posts were telling him that it was either not possible, or at the very least, not practical. That is simply not true. Others mentioned Bullseye. I would rather introduce a new handloader to a medium burning rate powder, than a fast burning powder, as it is so easy to double (and even triple) load fast ones like Bullseye and others. And has been said, the handloader can load whatever he/she wishes~~~that is the beauty of handloading. But safety remains the responsibility of each handloader. The basic rule is to start low, and work up your loads slowly, looking for any signs that you might be getting goofy.
I respect all views and opinions here, and am merely expressing my own. As stated above, I knew this would ellicit some feed back, and that is good. I am now going to the Taurus web site to see what the heck a 650 snubbie is.
Radaray
Yes, I knew full well that I would get some flak with the loads using SR4756, as there has been more than a little speculation over the chacteristics over this old, and time proven powder. Before I launch into any defense of this, or any other powder, let me set something straight here. I did not state that the Speer #12 maximum load was 7.0 grains. Their max load was given as 4.8grs. The 7.0 grain load is MY load, not Speers.
When the Speer #9 manual came out, there was a great reduction in a lot of charges that were previously given by Speer, besides just SR4756. I contacted Omark Industries about this, and their letter back (which I no longer have) indicated a variety of reasons for this, one of which was due to the lowering of SAMMI specs. This was done about the same time the industry was receiving increasingly bad press over various gun issues. Liability became a more pressing concern.
Another reason given was the advent of new and improved pressure measuring equipment. This "new" equipment revealed information that until this time was not known. I find it rather ironic that some sources still provide pressure readings in copper units of pressure (CUP) and others in PSI.
While they did not "condemn" any currently used powder, they recommended that handloaders follow information given in their latest manuals, and disregard data given in their older manuals. Keep in mind also, the long stated warning that they cannot control the condition of all firearms, especially older guns chambered for the .38 Special cartridge.
With that in mind, I conducted my own tests again with a new lot of SR4756 powder, and loaded them up to the limits I imposed upon myself many years ago. My new data ran very close to that that I had found before. My old Smith 28 still works like new, and the loads that I have given are safe in my 605, which BTW is chambered for .357 magnum. As stated before, I have not found this powder to be load density sensitive.
The original author was looking for a single powder that could be used in the .38 Spl. cartridge as a low velocity practice round as well as a service round. Most posts were telling him that it was either not possible, or at the very least, not practical. That is simply not true. Others mentioned Bullseye. I would rather introduce a new handloader to a medium burning rate powder, than a fast burning powder, as it is so easy to double (and even triple) load fast ones like Bullseye and others. And has been said, the handloader can load whatever he/she wishes~~~that is the beauty of handloading. But safety remains the responsibility of each handloader. The basic rule is to start low, and work up your loads slowly, looking for any signs that you might be getting goofy.
I respect all views and opinions here, and am merely expressing my own. As stated above, I knew this would ellicit some feed back, and that is good. I am now going to the Taurus web site to see what the heck a 650 snubbie is.
Radaray
My new batch is, under the conditions I stated.
I said:
If enough empty space is filled, it does fine, burns very clean, and is accurate. If it does not fill enough space, it is terribly position sensitive.
I tried one load with a 125 Gr JHP gave an Avg 1149 FPS with the powder back against the primer. One shot of that load with the powder forward against the bullet gave 678 FPS.
Another load with a plated 125 Gr bullet that gave an Avg 931 FPS with the powder back. With the powder forward, it stuck the first shot in the barrel.
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wlewisiii
Member
I think, at this point, based on the reading this thread has inspired, that I'll be looking for either the True Blue or the WW231 for a starting point. Should be enjoyable
Thanks all, for the information & inspiration.
Oh, Radaray, the 650 is an enclosed hammer DAO 2" snubby. Mine is stainless steel - 2nd owner but the first never shot it. Nice...
William
Thanks all, for the information & inspiration.
Oh, Radaray, the 650 is an enclosed hammer DAO 2" snubby. Mine is stainless steel - 2nd owner but the first never shot it. Nice...
William
jfh
Member.
you really can't go wrong with 231, wleisiii. However, I have found that it is less useful as it moves up the recipe range. I stumbled into True Blue when I was looking for a slower powder.
Try both.
Jim H.
Try both.
Jim H.
hydraulicman
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Bullseye for plinking and power pistol for +P
ArchAngelCD
Member.
IMO Bullseye is way too fast a powder to use for .38 Special +P rounds.
hydraulicman
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yeah bullseye is not a magnum powder.
RidgwayCO
Member
If you have one .357 Magnum revolver, then I suggest loading just .357 Magnum cases to avoid having to scrub out the cylinders after shooting .38 Specials in it. Plus you don't have to stock any .38 Special brass!
To get light but accurate loads in the .357 Magnum case, I highly recommend Trail Boss. It's very "fluffy" so you can easily see what you've put in each case (important in that tall case where small amounts of other powders can "get lost"), and you can't really overload it, which is an important point for a beginning reloader. For your "social work" loads, anything from Power Pistol to 2400 would be fine for me. I don't personally recommend 296/H110 for lead bullet loads because it doesn't download well, and needs a lot of pressure to burn efficiently, which may be an incompatible situation with the swaged lead bullets you intend to use.
The one big caution with Trail Boss is to never compress it (Don't Break The Doughnuts!). It's physical shape contributes to its burning characteristics, and breaking the doughnuts measurably increases its burning speed and therefore its pressure. Hodgdon has great published data for Trail Boss on their web site.
This is another situation where I wouldn't try to make one powder do everything, because it would most likely be only marginally efficient for both applications. Use Trail Boss for your light target loads, and the slower powder of your choice for your magnum loads.
To get light but accurate loads in the .357 Magnum case, I highly recommend Trail Boss. It's very "fluffy" so you can easily see what you've put in each case (important in that tall case where small amounts of other powders can "get lost"), and you can't really overload it, which is an important point for a beginning reloader. For your "social work" loads, anything from Power Pistol to 2400 would be fine for me. I don't personally recommend 296/H110 for lead bullet loads because it doesn't download well, and needs a lot of pressure to burn efficiently, which may be an incompatible situation with the swaged lead bullets you intend to use.
The one big caution with Trail Boss is to never compress it (Don't Break The Doughnuts!). It's physical shape contributes to its burning characteristics, and breaking the doughnuts measurably increases its burning speed and therefore its pressure. Hodgdon has great published data for Trail Boss on their web site.
This is another situation where I wouldn't try to make one powder do everything, because it would most likely be only marginally efficient for both applications. Use Trail Boss for your light target loads, and the slower powder of your choice for your magnum loads.
Maj Dad
Member
If I were told I had to get rid of all my pistol powders (about 10 of them, for 9x19, 38 spl, 357, 44 spl, 44 mag, 44-40, 45 acp, 45 LC) I would have to flip a coin between Bullseye & 231 and just suck up the loss of 357/44 mag capability (but fall back on a "rifle powder" for them: W296/WC 820 used in my M1 carbines 
). I get excellent results with 296/820 with jacketed & plain base lead bullets in pistols and leading is a non-issue with hard cast bullets (also in the carbines but with gas checks).
). I get excellent results with 296/820 with jacketed & plain base lead bullets in pistols and leading is a non-issue with hard cast bullets (also in the carbines but with gas checks).
evan price
Member
My preferred single powder solution for .357 Mag and .38 spl uses a 158-grain cast lead (Wheel Weight alloy) SWC sized to .358":
.38 Special- 3.5 grains Titegroup- this is the mid-range data from the Hodgdon "Cowboy" load data, should be around 867 fps if you average their data and around 13.5K CUP.
.357 Magnum- 5.0 grains Titegroup- this is a max load from the "Cowboy" data, should be 1108 fps and under 25K CUP.
These are clean and very accurate, don't beat up the shooter or the gun, hit where aimed in a variety of revolvers, and do not lead up the barrel.
Titegroup is a great powder for target loads- inexpensive, reliable, and versatile. It won't get you true Magnum performance but it's great for target use.
.38 Special- 3.5 grains Titegroup- this is the mid-range data from the Hodgdon "Cowboy" load data, should be around 867 fps if you average their data and around 13.5K CUP.
.357 Magnum- 5.0 grains Titegroup- this is a max load from the "Cowboy" data, should be 1108 fps and under 25K CUP.
These are clean and very accurate, don't beat up the shooter or the gun, hit where aimed in a variety of revolvers, and do not lead up the barrel.
Titegroup is a great powder for target loads- inexpensive, reliable, and versatile. It won't get you true Magnum performance but it's great for target use.
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Why say more?
If that were true there would be only 1 powder. As we know there are dozens of good powders out there and all work well. I can think of a bunch of powders right now that will do a great job for the .38 Special, some better than Bullseye, some not.
Jesse Heywood
Member
I have been using 231 and TiteGroup for 32-20, 38, 357 and 45 Colt. Both powders have done well in all.
If you decide to go with W231 try Hodgdon HP-38. Hodgdon manufactures W231 and says they two are the same. Usually 231 costs $5 more than HP-38. I buy whichever is available.
If you decide to go with W231 try Hodgdon HP-38. Hodgdon manufactures W231 and says they two are the same. Usually 231 costs $5 more than HP-38. I buy whichever is available.
Six
Member
I started loading 38/357/44 with Unique and Bullseye, and have pretty much switched to Trail Boss for all plinking/cowboy loads.
It's just so much easier to work with. Unlike Bullseye, any difference in charges is immediately apparent. I can load faster, and with more confidence.
For Magnum loads, I use Unique or 2400.
It's just so much easier to work with. Unlike Bullseye, any difference in charges is immediately apparent. I can load faster, and with more confidence.
For Magnum loads, I use Unique or 2400.
jmortimer
Member
You can never go wrong with Unique.
Sunray
Member
"...prefer to shoot .38 Special/.38 Special +P..." Load .357 brass to .38 velocities for one. Makes the lube gunk ring in the cylinders go away.
Forget the lead RN bullets for carrying. Cops quit using them, long ago, for a reason. Actually declared unsafe by our cop unions, up here. Lead RN's out of a .38 reportedly bounce off windshields. LSWC's aren't much better.
"...for .38 Special +P rounds..." Alliant gives a 3.9 grains max load of Bullseye out of a 6" barrel as a +P .38 158 gr LSWC. 874 FPS. That's faster than a 158 XTP with HP-38. Mind you, a LSWC isn't an XTP.
"...experienced shooters who know what they're doing use Bullseye..." Definitely for 148 grain WC's. As much as I like Bullseye, there are better powders for jacketed bullets.
Forget the lead RN bullets for carrying. Cops quit using them, long ago, for a reason. Actually declared unsafe by our cop unions, up here. Lead RN's out of a .38 reportedly bounce off windshields. LSWC's aren't much better.
"...for .38 Special +P rounds..." Alliant gives a 3.9 grains max load of Bullseye out of a 6" barrel as a +P .38 158 gr LSWC. 874 FPS. That's faster than a 158 XTP with HP-38. Mind you, a LSWC isn't an XTP.
"...experienced shooters who know what they're doing use Bullseye..." Definitely for 148 grain WC's. As much as I like Bullseye, there are better powders for jacketed bullets.
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