Powder.

[Johnson1631]

IMPORTANT TO ME!!
How long can powder 'substitutes' be kept unopened in the original container and still be good? It's my understanding that if kept unopened and stored in a cool dry place it will last virtually forever...(ie American Pioneer, Triple 7, etc..Thanks in advance for the help...Johnson. (My real name by the way)...

 

[towboat_er]

Not sure. But the powder I've been shooting is about 15 years old. Can't tell the between it an a new can. Its goex fff.

 

[Arkansas Paul]

I killed a deer last season with Pyrodex that's about 8-9 years old. I'll use it again next season. There's prolly half a pound left, so it'll be around for a while.

 

[BullRunBear]

I've used Pyrodex from an opened container that has been stored in my unheated garage for well over ten years. Goes off like it was new. I assume an unopened can of Pyrodex (if that's what you have) would do just fine.

Jeff

 

[Johnson1631]

Okay, thank both of you. I think that GOEX fff is probably what ya'll refer to as the 'Holy Black'..(Real blackpowder)...I own several (a lot) of blackpowder firearms but I don't shoot any of them much...I figure bad times are coming and that I'd better get a few supplies on hand. The powder substitutes seem a lot easier to use and clean up after. I have the 3 chemicals for making a little powder and a ball mill but I'vd never made any. Not interested in it unless I needed it for my wife and I and then I'd probably be real interested in a hurry.. My thanks to you...Johnson...

 

[Johnson1631]

No, I don't own any Pyrodex. I was looking for some for rifle and pistol but they were out. I might go back by next month and pick up some. Right now I have a good 'starting backup supply' of American Pioneer and some Triple Seven. That's the only kind he and she had on hand at the time...Johnson...

 

[[email protected]]

You know you can order up to 50lbs of real Black Powder and have it delivered
To your door for under 12.00 a lb. That counts the hazmat and shipping fee.

 

[kBob]

1631,

Hello, downtimer.

If my village were about to be dropped into the early mid 17th century Germany I think I would concntrate on having a good stock pile of Modern Fixed Cartridge ammunition for my own Modern Cartridge Firearms and perhaps some other common caliber ammunition for trading.

In TEOTWAWKI powder will be much easier to come by than reliable percussion caps and maybe even quality flints( Not Eric but the rock kind).

Not to start an argument but for both hunting and defense modern cartridge firearms will be better than BP.

BP is a sport. OK for some of these folks it is a way of life....on weekends. See if you can find Mel Tappens "Survival Guns" a bit dated as the "assault weapon" was not as common when he wrote it but he was a guy that loloked into "Survival" in a serious big way.

Water providers and storage food are a more useful addition to a hard time scenerio than BP, assuming you already have access to modern cartridge firearms and ammunition.

Still the same old
-kBob

 

[Hanshi]

Real black powder doesn't deteriorate over time. Can't speak for the subs.

 

[NCWanderer]

How about smokeless.....does it deteriorate.

 

[Acorn Mush]

How about smokeless.....does it deteriorate.

It sure does. If stored in a cool dry place it remains serviceable for many years but it WILL deteriorate. I've personally experienced several instances of it. Black powder on the other hand will NOT deteriorate when stored under the same conditions. I shot some that was over 100 years old and it worked just fine.

 

[Johnson1631]

Don't think I'm interested in ordering black powder. Don't need someone knocking on my door a few years from now-"Mr. Johnson? We see from the records we have here that you are in possession of several pounds of blackpowder which we're sure you know is classified as an explosive. We're here to take charge of it and we will need detailed records as to what happened to any amount we may determine is missing from the original order. Now, you can turn it all over and no problem. You can resist and we'll beat the s*** out of you and take it anyway and also throw you in jail. Now, gonna co-operate"?..We have a good supply of .22LR's for our 10-22's and our Mk2's. We have a good supply of everything from 20 pound bags of rice and other food all the way through a good supply of kerosene for our Petromax lanterns and water filters which will even remove serum and blood. Both she and I are retired and have nothing else to do but watch and listen as our country and Constitution goes to hell. Both of us are kind of worried. Was just wondering sort of out of pocket what the life span is on the powder substitutes. I imagine it's longer than she and I will live..Thank each of you sincerly...Johnson..

 

[frontloader]

I hear ya johnson.slowly becoming a police state!! I hope I dont live long enough to see it complete.........but you asked about BP and the subs. same story here.Ive got a can of Goex thats about 30 years old. and some triple7 thats about 3 years old. it all still goes bang and its still as accurate as I am...BUT..Ive got a few pounds of the old Blackmag3 I stocked up on a few years ago before they quit making it. shot some of it the other day in my 58 Remmy and it went bang, it was shooting all over the target. so I cronyed the next 6 shots and there was as much as +/- 200 fps difference in 6 rounds. but it was a really good sub back in its day. about the same energy level as triple7 over my crony and very accurate. I guess its fertilizer now........frontloader

 

[kBob]

on this same topic.

There was once a warning bout storing Pyrodex in copper flasks for extended periods.

Looking for BP in the shop when the most recent can ran low I ran across a CVA pipe flask willed with not BP and Pyro is the only thing other than BP I have used but that was a good 15 years ago atleast.

ANy thoughts?

I am thinking compost pile.

Also found a small amount of BP in a COlt FLask..... it worked fine and dandy and was put up in the flask at the same time.

-kBob

 

[Shultzhaus]

Since real BP does not deteriorate, you can lay up a good supply for future use. It's tempting to buy quantity on line, but now your name address, and how much you bought is on a record. Easy pickin's for the Gestapo. We have a shop 30 miles from home, that has Goex for $15.95 a pound. Several of us make the trip a few times a year, and get a few cans each. There is no record of that purchase. Also, there was a thread awhile back about the legallity of storing powder in a residence. I don't know where else to keep it since out houses went out of vogue a long time ago.

 

[OrangePwrx9]

When they come to the door to collect the powder and the ammo, that will be the signal. After that day, I won't be needing any.

Neither will a few of them.

 

[MCgunner]

I've stored Pyrodex for 20 years and it's fine. APP, OTOH, about 2 months down here in the humidity.

 

[MCgunner]

It's tempting to buy quantity on line, but now your name address, and how much you bought is on a record. Easy pickin's for the Gestapo.

I didn't know that, but I am not surprised. Another reason not to order powder. I wonder if the same applies to the chemicals to make BP if you order it?

 

[Johnson1631]

Mr. McGunner, this is sort of getting off of the simple question that I had went public on here to ask about but my wife say's I should answer you and maybe help you a little. I don't mind. Ya'll were nice to us..Okay, here it is straight out pure and simple. Blackpowder is an explosive; low class but still classified as an explosive. Being an explosive put's any amount of it under their jurisdiction any time they want to say it does. HAVING THE CHEMICALS UNMIXED IS NOT AGAINST THE LAW. THE THREE CHEMICALS UNMIXED DOES NOT PRESENT ANY THREAT OR ANY DANGER TO THE PERSON(S) POSSESSING THEM OR TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC IN ANY KIND OF WAY. (POSSESSING THE THREE CHEMICALS MAY CAUSE THEM TO FEEL IT NEEDFUL TO KEEP AN EYE ON YOU. YOU MAY SAY THAT THE CHEMICALS ARE TO BE USED AS FERTILIZER TO HELP IMPROVE THE GROUND FOR YOUR TOMATOES AND CUCUMBERS. IF THE CHEMICALS ARE ORDERED OR PURCHASED FROM A CHEMICAL [FIREWORKS/PYROTECHNICS/ETC] SUPPLY HOUSE YOU CAN BE FLATLY GUARANTEED AS OF THIS MOMENT THAT YOUR NAME AND ALL PARTICULARS CONCERNING YOUR ORDER(S) ARE IN SEVERAL PEOPLE'S COMPUTERS)..Neither my wife nor I have ever had trouble with the federal authorities in any kind of way. (Or State other than a few minor traffic violations over the years). Both of us are retired Civil Service and we paid a total of $900.00 for about 25 minutes of time from one of the finest US Constitutional attorneys in this country just to find out this very thing straight from the horse's mouth with no bulls***..Perhaps this has been helpful to you sir..Johnson..

 

[kBob]

Back before Y2K I was active on a couple of "survival" boards and frequently ran into the "here come the feds" and the "I talked to the best lawyers" folk.

Here is the thing folks do not think about ANY PRODUCT may be declared contraband tomorrow. If you ever bought powdered or crystal swimming pool clorine with a credit card yoy can be on a list of people bying potentually hazardous stuff tomorrow, just as an example. Bought one box of .22 LR at Wal Mart last decade and put it on visa? there is a record and there hae been proposals to make all ammunition that is usable in handguns contraband, for example.

It is important to be aware, but also important not to be alarmed to the point it might affect or effect your health or planning.

Perhaps the best surival planning I see at the moment is to see everyone I know and I vote in November and that they have the facts.

FOr that matter the guy that wrote the book on Food Storage that I partnered on production of and edited likes to say "It's never what you plan for, just do the best you can ahead anyway and don't worry so much about it."

He usually ends that with a reference to both the Yucatan meteor strike aka Dinasour killer and Crater Arizona as exapmples of no amount of planning covering everything.

I can hardly wait to get a new keyboard with fully functional keys......

-kBob

 

[Johnson1631]

Hell, I wasn't talking about Armageddon coming although it will probably get here soon enough. Not like I'm expecting the Russians to knock on the door in the morning with bayonets fixed..Just bad times, they're coming...Made some powder. (my wife did. I was working on a computer). Used the 'United Nuclear' directions. (75%/15%.10%. Weighed on some powder scales we got from Cabela's several years ago) .Milled it for about 17 hours.(United said 24 hours is not too long and that the longer it mills the better powder one will have). She mixed it with water and a little alcohol and worked it up about like biscuit dough and pushed it through a screen for 3fff granulation. Then she spread it out in one of her baking sheets in the back room and let it dry good. I cleaned up a Uberti Colt .31 (had it for years. Never been fired or anything; just greased down good) and popped 5 caps to help dry it out and handed it to her. She loaded that sucker up from a Colt Baby Flask and used .323 balls and capped with Remingtons. It shot all 5 times, no problems. I don't know all the technical details (I'm not a damned gunsmith) but it knocked 5 respectable holes through a piece of 1/3 inch thick plywood at a distance of about 14 yards. I don't know where the balls ended up. Out there in the hill somewhere I guess. Well, strong enough to knock down a rabbit if we were hungry and strong enough to knock a hole in somebody and get them off of our ass...

 

[Zeke/PA]

I bought a good supply of Pyrodex Pellets about 7 or 8 years ago when a local shop was closing it's doors.
Myself and two Buddies are still using the stuff with no apparent ill effects.
Sight in time before the season confirms the facts, and a shot, or two, or three during the season bears this out.
Actually, we never gave the Pyrodex age/failure a thought.

 

[Johnson1631]

Zeke, personally I think I would like Pyrodex. I have heard (and read) lot's of different people speak sort of highly about it. I don't really know much about blackpowder or it's family or any of the guns either. Not really. My wife know's a right smart about them because she grew up in a family who used mostly blackpowder firearms on a regular basis. Even her mother know's that stuff good. (calibers, ranges on projectiles with certain loads, cleaning, hunting, all that sort of stuff)..I don't know much about any of it except for what I'vd read and me and her talking. I am a pretty fair rifle and pistol shot but I don't know how I would be using blackpowder gear. I know the different kinds, and the recommended loads and all. I own several so I know how they feel and all (some of the revolvers are balanced very good) and I have a daily chore of checking them good once a week and maybe adding a bit more lubricant before I put them away but that's about it. My wife told me not to pay any attention to most of what I might read on this site; to just use it for entertainment purposes, but that sometimes I would come across some posts on here that were very informative and good to know. She told me just this morning that Pyrodex shot good although she never shot much of it. Her family (daddy, mother, 2 brothers and 3 sisters, all of them) made powder since they were old enough to understand....Millions of people in this country are already losing their homes, jobs, everything. If this guy get's re-elected things are going to get even rougher for lot's more people...I think I'll pick up a pound of Pyrodex the next time we go into town..Johnson..

 

[OrangePwrx9]

Might want to pick up some roundball molds for each caliber rifle you own, Johnson. A lead pot, pouring ladle and some pure lead would set you up to make your own roundballs. Lee molds are fairly inexpensive. Pure lead is available on ebay.

 

[Johnson1631]

Not really worried about that to tell the truth although I appreciate your mentioning it to us. We have enough different sized balls and enough #10's and #11's buried and put away here and there to do us for 2 or 3 lifetimes probably. Plenty of blackpowder cleaning gear to that she picked out. Leather to..She also picked out and ordered a good set of gun screwdrivers and little brass funnels and extra spouts for the flasks and other little things that she said might come in handy someday. (I sure hope it never come's in handy just take my word) She got about all of the stuff from Cabela's I reckon except for stuff like extra springs and clips and screws and cylinders and whatnot that I think she got from a place called VTI Replica Gun Parts or something like that. This isn't an overnight thing with us. We have been planning and working on this for years. Both of us are getting a little older and we have to be able to look out for ourselves instead of begging and mooching off of other people, who will have enough troubles of their own. Yeah, we both think bad times are coming. It'll be just like Wal-Mart's and the rest of the stores around New Orleans when that hurricane Katy or whatever hit. Stores stripped out bare and no where to find anything. Trucks not bringing stuff in. Except it won't be one small city or town. It'll be widespread..Except both of us suspect this will be caused through acts of war...Johnson..